The rule is one move. The driver is then entitled to move back to his racing line for braking. Whilst what he did wasn't kind, it was legit in my opinion. In fact, whilst Schumi was a bit slow this weekend, I don't think he broke many rules. Going across the grass with Kubica (was it?) wasn't his fault either - he tried to stay around the outside and had to go across the grass when Kubica abandoned the corner due to being offline and outbraking himself.

So yet again it seems I disagree with the majority about racing incidents. The worse offender was Kubica coming into the pits at the last moment and passing a braking car to do so, but that's the fault of the stupid pit entry layout. I'm surprised it hasn't happened before, as I used to do it all the time in Microprose's GP2.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The driver is then entitled to move back to his racing line for braking.

Perhaps not when the driver has a quicker car following so closely.

Quote from 5haz :

Of course because Schumacher is the driver in question it can't possibly be his fault. People have such warped ideas of what and what isn't acceptable in racing.

It was a little bit Schumacher's fault, but the vast majority of the incident was Massa putting himself into a position he didn't need to be in.

Of course because Schumacher is the driver in question it absolutely has to be competely his fault. People have such warped ideas of what and what when racing happens

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

It was a little bit Schumacher's fault, but the vast majority of the incident was Massa putting himself into a position he didn't need to be in.

Ok, you tell me, where else could he go?

He could brake at the same rate as Schumacher, or even a bit more, staying completely behind with no overlap. He would then have more space for the turn-in than Schumacher, and a better exit line with more speed.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

He could brake at the same rate as Schumacher, or even a bit more, staying completely behind with no overlap. He would then have more space for the turn-in than Schumacher, and a better exit line with more speed.

Massa can't predict exactly when Schumacher is going to brake, especially when Schumacher was struggling with handling and so probrably had to brake quite a bit earlier than most other drivers.

Massa didn't need to predict exactly when Schumacher was going to brake, all he had to do was let off a little bit to make sure he didn't get stuck being so wide into the corner. I've already agreed that Schumacher wasn't (completely) innocent, why are you so adamant that there's nothing Massa could ahve done better

Quote from tristancliffe :

The rule is one move. The driver is then entitled to move back to his racing line for braking. Whilst what he did wasn't kind, it was legit in my opinion. In fact, whilst Schumi was a bit slow this weekend, I don't think he broke many rules. Going across the grass with Kubica (was it?) wasn't his fault either - he tried to stay around the outside and had to go across the grass when Kubica abandoned the corner due to being offline and outbraking himself.

Schumacher came from the left side of the track, saw Kubica and then put him on the grass. How is that fair? Who cares about the fact they both ended up on the grass, Schumacher caused that as a result of the previous incident.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Massa didn't need to predict exactly when Schumacher was going to brake, all he had to do was let off a little bit to make sure he didn't get stuck being so wide into the corner. I've already agreed that Schumacher wasn't (completely) innocent, why are you so adamant that there's nothing Massa could ahve done better

When Massa was preparing to brake Schumacher was on the right side of the track and there was room to his left, that situation changed very quickly when Schumacher moved left. In a way its similar to Anthony Davidson's Corvette incident at Le Mans, the driver had no time to react to the changing sitatuion caused by a driver acting unpredictably and agressively ahead.

I didn't think it was unpredictable or aggressive, I don't see why Massa would have wanted to go beside Schumacher at all in that corner. There was nothing for him to gain there :\

Quote from BlueFlame :

Schumacher came from the left side of the track, saw Kubica and then put him on the grass. How is that fair? Who cares about the fact they both ended up on the grass, Schumacher caused that as a result of the previous incident.

Schumi was ahead and had the right to move to block the overtake. Kubica could have got out of it, as Schumi blocked in time, but instead he tried to keep his foot in and stay alongside on the grass.

Since when should modern F1 be fair? They're paid millions in exotic machinery to score championship points for their team within a specific (albeit sometimes quite grey) set of rules. Schumi stayed within them in both the Massa and Kubica incident in my eyes.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Schumi was ahead and had the right to move to block the overtake. Kubica could have got out of it, as Schumi blocked in time, but instead he tried to keep his foot in and stay alongside on the grass.

Since when should modern F1 be fair? They're paid millions in exotic machinery to score championship points for their team within a specific (albeit sometimes quite grey) set of rules. Schumi stayed within them in both the Massa and Kubica incident in my eyes.

if I was Kubica I would keep all four wheels on the black stuff, and if Michael continue to move over I'll spin him off rather nicely. But then I'm too crap to be a F1 driver, and if Kubica really did that he'd be worse off himself too.

Would have been interesting if Kubica didn't went wide and short cut the chicane there. Michael was agreesive on the turn in, he deliberately turned in early and screw Kubica up there. But that is Michael Schumacher, he races hard, smartly, and agressively.

The one with Massa, the FIA declared it as a non-event anyway. And I agree that Massa didn't need to stick a nose there, it was never going to work to out brake someone from behind on the outside into that chicane. And Michael have the right to expect on that particular braking point, it would be ok to move across a bit to get a better line through the chicane.

But the turn one chaos was definitly caused by Massa, three into two in turn one would never work, but he shoved Liuzzi to the inside, and then tried to stick one up the inside of Button when Liuzzi was still there.

Kubica vs. Schumacher was a racing incident, Massa vs. Schumacher was Schumacher's fault for putting Massa on the grass.

The worst offense was Kubica's pit entry vs. Sutil and should have been punished.

IMO.

Massa probably thought sticking the nose in would compromise Schumi's line into the chicane, narrowing his entry, but he probably forgot Schumi does not yield to no body.

love the way that "notanillusion" keeps kissing schumachers ass.

a certain ex gp driver who has been his team mate discribed his actions in a very bad light.enough for me.

he is the monty python black knight of F1......"none shall pass"

his ego is such that its almost like "how dare these pups attempt to take me...dont they know who i am?"

good to see his younger less experienced team mate is showing him the way in equal equipment.

Quote from mr grady :

love the way that "notanillusion" keeps kissing schumachers ass.

You are blinded by your unobjective schumacher hate, I would come up with the same opinion regardless of driver names and car colours. Disagree all you want, but leave the insults out

Quote from mr grady :

love the way that "notanillusion" keeps kissing schumachers ass.

a certain ex gp driver who has been his team mate discribed his actions in a very bad light.enough for me.

he is the monty python black knight of F1......"none shall pass"

his ego is such that its almost like "how dare these pups attempt to take me...dont they know who i am?"

good to see his younger less experienced team mate is showing him the way in equal equipment.

I wouldn't expect anything less from Michael Schumacher in terms of race craft and agressiveless on track.

It was good that most people he was battling with was having none of it. It was also brilliant that the Force India managed to shove him out of the points on the last lap. (as well as the red Ferrari that ruined a FI at T1 got shoved out of the point by Michael)

Quote from mr grady :

keeps kissing arse.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

You are blinded by your unobjective hate

Two very overused internet arguments... :splat:

I'm not a Schumi lover or hater, but I counted at least 3 times in the race when he shortcutted the final chicane. I know the rules say you can't gain a position by shortcutting, but what about cutting down lap times?

There has to be some kind of rule to prevent it, or guys would shortcut all over the place to close up on the guy in front of them. If nothing else, it speaks to a driver's ability that he outbraked himself 3 times in the same turn.

Quote from JCTK :

if I was Kubica I would keep all four wheels on the black stuff, and if Michael continue to move over I'll spin him off rather nicely. But then I'm too crap to be a F1 driver, and if Kubica really did that he'd be worse off himself too.

*cough* Turkey*cough*

Very nice race indeed on a beautiful track!

MSC: Needs to tone down and accept being midfield. With Kubica I see no error done, but with Massa I kind of see MSC in fault. It was not needed to "wave" like that or to try to hold on so heavy, afterall he's Massa's ex-personal coach too and 1.8 - 2.4 secs slower than Massa... I did not understood why they let MSC drive so long on the soft (green) tyres after that double fast stop ?! He did like 30 laps on them while they barely last 15-17 laps! Rosberg, where are thou ?!

Red Bull: Another teamstrategy **** up + unreliability. After Turkey and now, I do not see them becoming champion. They also seem to have lost their racing pace advantage with Ferrari, Mclaren and even Renault being as fast as them.

Mclaren: Nicely done. All went by plan, some good moves. I didn't really like the Alonso - Button pass, damn Lotus. But it was clean and exciting.

Ferrari: Alonso! He pushes the car like a champion should and can. Massa really lets me down. Silly errors and not really having the right pace. Stuck for too long behind others losing so much precious time. Alonso got a few bad luck moments though; the Lotus pass, something with a Torro Rosso when Hamilton pitted to which Alonso lost all his time of this two fastest laps in a row and got behind Hamilton and in front of Button again, a real shame.

Kubica: Did a nice drive, got a bit unlucky but showed again that he truly can race. Fastest laps also with damaged front wing! Class. His pit entry was very dangerous though, he could easily have waited and should have.


Excellent race! We need more tracks like these. Hockenheim, Silverstone, Montreal, Paul Ricard, ect... !

Tristan: Did you just say Microprose's beautiful GP2 ?! *love*

Quote from GianniC :

old Hockenheim

Quote from GianniC :

Tristan: Did you just say Microprose's beautiful GP2 ?! *love*

GP1 was better.

I happen to think MSC did alright hes tyre strategy was complete rubbish but the fact he was able to do half the race on the soft compound atleast deserves some praise, hes blocking moves where quite outrageous but im pretty sure they where required for him to go around the corner without going off the track on completely wrecked tyres.

Im quite suspicious about Both Redbulls losing like 15 seconds on the last lap though.

Quote from oscarhardwick :

Mustafur... i think you need to change your sig. And come on Mclaren... that is how we do that!

fixed

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