For me al it takes for a good time is 2 or 4 wheels and an engine which can propel the vehicle to reasonably fast speeds.
And some nice corners to make it fun.

Quote from 5haz :

Yes I do, but I don't feel like I need to get pissed to have a good time.

It's not about need, it's about choice.

Some people think an afternoon with the reading club is a good time, some prefers other kicks.

Maybe minimalizing unhealthy and dangerous substance is priority for you, but for me as long as it doesn't affect my other activities, some risk is always fun.

Excessively loud music can damage hearing.
Driving fast can kill.
But it doesn't stop me enjoying both.

Ok lets say Marijuana does get legalized? What does it do?
Let people get high publicly?
Then whats next? Legalizing Speed? Ecstasy? where does it stop?

If it were meant to be Legal it wouldn't be illegal.

Quote from 5haz :

Eating good meals is a bit different to taking drugs.

Why do you think that is? I mean, when we eat something our senses (sight, smell, taste, feel) stimulate responses in our brain. When we eat our favourite food we are happy, it tastes good. Our body releases chemicals that make us feel better. How is that different to smoking marijuana?

Quote from 5haz :

I'm not for banning drugs, just that people need to realise they have harmful side effects. And that with some recreational drugs, the side effects outweigh the benefits and so its best to keep away. Banning isn't the answer, people need to be convinced to add up the risks and benefits and come to a conclusion themselves.

Yes, I believe some recreational drugs do have side effects, just as commercial drugs do. However, no-one has died from a marijuana overdose but thousands of people die every year from allergic reactions or side effects from manufactured prescription drugs, provided by trained medical professionals. The majority of the public are very aware of the side effects from recreational drugs (some of those side effects are real and others have been vastly exaggerated or made up by politicians and people with agendas) but not so many are aware or care about the side effects of commercial medicines. I wonder why that is.

Quote from AstroBoy :

Then whats next? Legalizing Speed? Ecstasy? where does it stop?

I can only hope.

I was born many years too late

Quote from AstroBoy :

Ok lets say Marijuana does get legalized? What does it do?
Let people get high publicly?
Then whats next? Legalizing Speed? Ecstasy? where does it stop?

It's a good question. There are a lot of people who are open to the legalisation of marijuana but would stop at other drugs like cocaine, ecstasy and heroin. To be honest I'm not sure where I sit on that question.

Quote from AstroBoy :

If it were meant to be Legal it wouldn't be illegal.

See, now that's just a ridiculous thing to say. You made a reasonably valid point above then you go and say that. Heroin WAS legal (it was available over the counter in pharmacies without a prescription) but it was made illegal. Coca-Cola used to contain cocaine but it no longer does. Alcohol was made illegal in the US in the 1920s but it was made legal again in the 1930s. The fact is that humans are societal creatures. Legal and illegal don't have any meaning outside of subjective human opinions. Society decides what should be legal and what should be illegal. If the legalisation of marijuana were a democratic process it would already be legal in a few more parts of the world.

Quote from Klutch :

Its exactly the same thing.
A few drinks helps you relax and enjoy yourself.

But can you relax and enjoy yourself without drinks? This is the problem, you find having a few makes you feel more comfortable, then if you can't feel relaxed without drinks then they aren't something that you want anymore, they're something that you need.

Drinks at least can be enjoyed for their other qualities anyway, thats why I drink.

Quote from amp88 :

Yes, I believe some recreational drugs do have side effects, just as commercial drugs do. However, no-one has died from a marijuana overdose but thousands of people die every year from allergic reactions or side effects from manufactured prescription drugs, provided by trained medical professionals. The majority of the public are very aware of the side effects from recreational drugs (some of those side effects are real and others have been vastly exaggerated or made up by politicians and people with agendas) but not so many are aware or care about the side effects of commercial medicines. I wonder why that is.

I agree about commercial medicines, its frightening how some have their children and even their pets on all kinds of psychoactive drugs for 'behavior issues', again filling their bodies up with things they don't necessarily need or do more harm than good.

Quote from JJ72 :

It's not about need, it's about choice.

Some people think an afternoon with the reading club is a good time, some prefers other kicks.

Maybe minimalizing unhealthy and dangerous substance is priority for you, but for me as long as it doesn't affect my other activities, some risk is always fun.

Excessively loud music can damage hearing.
Driving fast can kill.
But it doesn't stop me enjoying both.

I wouldn't stop you, what I mean is people need to realise and appreciate the danger before they take risks, some forget what they could be doing to their body by taking drugs, which is probrably why they got into them in the first place.

Driving fast and loud music are a little different to taking drugs, you can always hit the brakes or turn to volume down any time you like, but can you just walk out of a drug addicition?

Quote from AstroBoy :

Ok lets say Marijuana does get legalized? What does it do?
Let people get high publicly?
Then whats next? Legalizing Speed? Ecstasy? where does it stop?

If it were meant to be Legal it wouldn't be illegal.

What is legal depends on how dangerous it is, there are ways to measure it and at some point, the social norm draw the line.

Why people can't drive in the US until they are 18, while in australia they can drive when they are 16? Because the line isn't fixed.

Guess what, wearing Jeans use to be illegal too.

Quote from 5haz :

But can you relax and enjoy yourself without drinks? This is the problem, you find having a few makes you feel more comfortable, then if you can't feel relaxed without drinks then they aren't something that you want anymore, they're something that you need.

That's a logical fallacy, affirming the consequent to be precise.

Drinking helps relaxing =/= relaxing requires drinking.

music also helps relaxing.
soft lighting also helps relaxing.
it doesn't deem them necesscary.

Quote from 5haz :

But can you relax and enjoy yourself without drinks?

Yep.

I dislike drinking, so go clubbing sober quite alot.

Quote from 5haz :

This is the problem

Obviously its not.

Quote from 5haz :

you find having a few makes you feel more comfortable

Thats because it does.

Quote from 5haz :

then if you can't feel relaxed without drinks then they aren't something that you want anymore, they're something that you need.

Except i can feel relaxed without drinking...but it just takes the edge off.
You seriously can't tell me you've never had a few drinks and just felt better and had a better night due to it?

Quote from JJ72 :

That's a logical fallacy, affirming the consequent to be precise.

Drinking helps relaxing =/= relaxing requires drinking.

music also helps relaxing.
soft lighting also helps relaxing.
it doesn't deem them necesscary.

You said it better than i could.

Quote from amp88 :

See, now that's just a ridiculous thing to say. You made a reasonably valid point above then you go and say that. Heroin WAS legal (it was available over the counter in pharmacies without a prescription) but it was made illegal.

Adding onto this point.

Ecstasy was also legal and was used as a prescription drug for councelling for a little while.

Acid was also legal for a little while.

Quote from Becky Rose :

• Cannabis is often cut with other, non-safe, content - including but not limited to more addictive class A drugs, or household products.

This makes no sense. Cannabis (weed) isn't cut with anything 99% of the time. Simply because the drug itself is so cheap, it would make it more expensive once it's cut with other unsafe drugs.

If we're talking about pot (hash, piece, whatever you call it), then it's a good idea to buy from somebody you know. Pot can sometimes be cut with shit like sand, pieces and bits of plastic, henna, all kind of crap... but then again, everybody who smoked pot more than once should be able to tell when it's good and when it tastes like shit (there are other indicators besides taste who can easily be spotted).

So in conclusion, if you buy from idiots, the worst thing that can happen is that your pot is cut with garbage (not other drugs). Simple solution, don't buy from those idiots.

The real problem with weed is what they do with fertilizers in some cases. I don't buy this "lab-weed". It's known to be way stronger than "natural" weed and is usually pumped up with all kind of fertilizers (which arguably are not very healthy when you smoke the weed later on).

But again... cutting weed / pot with other drugs makes no sense at all.

Quote from jibber :

But again... cutting weed / pot with other drugs makes no sense at all.

Pretty much. If a dealer laces weed with a more expensive drug and sells it off they're idiots and would be losing money lol..

It should be noted though that people who grow their own marijuana for sale (i.e. not for personal use or for friends) can spray the crop with certain additives to increase weight (profit) such as silicone spray, glass, sand, grit etc. If it was legalised and production closely regulated harmful additives would be eradicated and general market quality would improve.

Quote from Klutch :

Except i can feel relaxed without drinking...but it just takes the edge off. You seriously can't tell me you've never had a few drinks and just felt better and had a better night due to it?

Theres more to a good night out than alcohol. Many seem to think alcohol is the only key to having a good time, at which point its become a crutch that they rely on too often, at the expense of their intenal organs.

My point is you shouldn't clear all risks and dangers from your life, just you need to respect the dangers and sometimes its best to play it safe, and not get into a situation where you're not in control. Not enough people respect the dangers of going out and getting hammered week after week.

Quote from 5haz :

My point is you shouldn't clear all risks and dangers from your life, just you need to respect the dangers and sometimes its best to play it safe.

My point would be it's not your place to tell someone else how they should feel or how they should act as long as they're not infringing on your rights or breaking (justified) laws.

Quote from amp88 :

My point would be it's not your place to tell someone else how they should feel or how they should act as long as they're not infringing on your rights or breaking (justified) laws.

As far as I'm concerned people can go out and break their insides, they just need to realise its a bloody stupid thing to do. And that it eventually affects others, e.g. relatives, friends, health services, who have to put up with the consequeces, oh well at least its freedom.

Its a shame people are allowed to be irresponsible idiots and claim it to be a statement of 'freedom'.

We can't have freedom of choice until people are educated and don't need protecting from themselves anymore. :rolleyes:

What right do you have to tell me where the "safe" level of playing is? If I'm not causing harm, injury or loss to you or anyone then what moral right do you have to tell me what to do?

Also Becky on page 1 is funny as, a right-wing facist utopia is a contradiction in terms and allowing people more freedom is hardly facist is it?

Quote from 5haz :

As far as I'm concerned people can go out and break their insides, they just need to realise its a bloody stupid thing to do.

Its a shame people are allowed to be irresponsible idiots and claim it to be a statement of 'freedom'. :rolleyes:

Hehe, it's quite hypocritical of you to call people who smoke marijuana "irresponsible idiots" but you regularly drink alcohol on nights out. I just don't understand what reason you have for calling marijuana users idiots.

Quote from amp88 :

Hehe, it's quite hypocritical of you to call people who smoke marijuana "irresponsible idiots" but you regularly drink alcohol on nights out. I just don't understand what reason you have for calling marijuana users idiots.

Regularly? Do you know me?

People who get drunk all the time are idiots too. I enjoy alcohol for its other qualities, not as a drug, I understand that excessive alcohol can harm me, but I realise that it dosen't have to if used carefully and not as a drug.

Quote from boothy :

What right do you have to tell me where the "safe" level of playing is? If I'm not causing harm, injury or loss to you or anyone then what moral right do you have to tell me what to do?

Because as said above, people are too thick to know where their own safe limits are, so they have to be told. Its a shame, but then people have the choice to get a clue but they chose to be ignorant instead. The idiotic masses complain about the nanny state, but its only there because they can't look after themselves.

Drug use does cause harm, injury and loss to those around you, but because its often out of sight, its out of mind.

Quote from G!NhO :

It's no problem here in holland and it is legal.

Drugs are illegal in the Netherlands.

The only subtle difference is that the Dutch government does not punish use of soft-drugs (and the selling of soft-drugs by coffeeshops) within certain limits. Full-on legalisation is a whole different ballgame than the Dutch model, and needs to be talked about in a different sense than the Dutch drug policy!

The Dutch government attempts to seperate hard and soft-drugs by partially tolerating the use of soft-drugs and focusing a strong effort on tackling the use and trafficking of hard-drugs. In doing so they try to minimise the "gateway" effect that some other members talked about (eg, step to soft-drugs is small and very common, step to hard-drugs is much larger and belongs to a decidedly different category in the minds of users)

It's hard to talk about policy making in the space of <5000 words, especially when it regards something like the Dutch drug policy, but what it boils down to is that full-on legalisation of soft-drugs without carefully assessing other parts of the policy would only lead to more trouble than keeping it illegal. You would still have all the problems associated with soft-drug use, but none of the perceived benefits of legalising it; remember that if you legalise the purchase, selling, ownership and use of soft-drugs you will still need to deal with the trash products and resulting health bills, but you will have no way of legally controlling or tackling these issues.

It's not as simple as flicking a switch and watching all the problems go away, we could all be government policy makers if that were the case :P

Quote from 5haz :

Regularly? Do you know me?

You've already said twice in this thread that you drink alcohol.

Quote from 5haz :

Because as said above, people are too thick to know where their own safe limits are, so they have to be told. Its a shame, but then people have the choice to get a clue but they chose to be ignorant instead.

Ah, so could you educate people to the dangers of marijuana and what safe limits are? Also, could you tell me the definition of "ignorant", because you must have a different dictionary than me. I think I'm more educated on the side effects of drugs (recreational and otherwise) than you are. If you're going to call people idiots at least have some logic on your side. You've made some very flimsy 'arguments', at least one logical fallacy (as JJ72 pointed out) and insulted several groups of people already.

I thought marijuana was legal, there are some limits for the shops of how many grams they may have in their shop and also you can't have more than 3 plants in your house. That's all i know.

Jertje is right, it's not legal in the netherlands, it's tolerated.

Legalise it, why not?
And here's a song by a croatian band named "Hladno Pivo" (Cold Beer on english... )