Quote from s01id :

When talking about demo, S2 users always mention that "demo" means "demonstration". Alright, so the problem seems to be in that word ("demo"). If the demo was named e.g. "S0", would it still be a problem? Because it wouldn't be a demonstration anymore. It would just be free content.

very good point.

Quote from s01id :

When talking about demo, S2 users always mention that "demo" means "demonstration". Alright, so the problem seems to be in that word ("demo"). If the demo was named e.g. "S0", would it still be a problem? Because it wouldn't be a demonstration anymore. It would just be free content.

using that logic, we could rename murder to blade tag just so it doesn't sound so bad.

it's called demo for a reason. because that's what it is. it's a demonstration of what you could get if you buy the full product. the problem is not that it's called demo, it's that demo users feel they are entitled to more content when they could buy the game and increase their content 10 fold.
now, here's a good test. go onto a demo server and say that you've found a working crack for LFS. see how many people ask you for this crack. so there will be your proof that some/most demo users want the full game but are not willing to pay for it.
how long would you stand at a free sample table at your local super market?

Once again, amen to Dadge ... Ur like taking the words out of my mouth.

Quote from dadge :

using that logic, we could rename murder to blade tag just so it doesn't sound so bad.

it's called demo for a reason. because that's what it is. it's a demonstration of what you could get if you buy the full product. the problem is not that it's called demo, it's that demo users feel they are entitled to more content when they could buy the game and increase their content 10 fold.
now, here's a good test. go onto a demo server and say that you've found a working crack for LFS. see how many people ask you for this crack. so there will be your proof that some/most demo users want the full game but are not willing to pay for it.
how long would you stand at a free sample table at your local super market?

Agreed.
But LFS demo is also the only active advertisement for the game.
It must be able to attract people, and create a need - therefore it has to offer better or more than the competition.

The NKP demo is similar, for example. Rfactor has more public so they do not need the generous demo, and iRacing neither because they do spend money in real advertisement.

As LFS devs spend no money in advertisement, they can be generous with the demo - bringing less income but spreading the game faster as it offers a good deal for free.

Maybe that will change when the devs consider the game is ready for advertisement and wide distribution - if ever.

Quote from dadge :

how long would you stand at a free sample table at your local super market?

depends if your the one giving those free sample it can be a day

Quote from lfs-drift staff :

depends if your the one giving those free sample it can be a day

bah-dum-dum-tsk.

imo, if you're serious about sim racing, then you will eventually find LFS. and then once you've found it, you'd want to support the developers by purchasing their project and further increase your sim experience.
yes there's people who are serious about LFS and have played the demo for years but break that down and put it into some kind of perspective. lets say player "A" has been playing the demo for 2 years. during those two years, he could have saved 25pence per week and he'd have the money for the full content. now do you think that player "A" should then come onto the forum and ask for more content? do you think that 25p per week is an affordable ammount to save every week?
if you look at how many people have S2 license status, you'll see that LFS has been doing just fine with word of mouth and promotions.
the way i see it, if you have not bought the product after about 6 months testing the demo, then maybe you have no intention in buying the product and so the demo should not be for you.
remember, the demo is only designed to give you an insight into what LFS S2 is all about. if it isn't enough to wet your appetite, then as the user, you should look at a different product that will satisfy your interests. long time demo users confuse me. they have already shown their interest in the game by playing the demo for years rather than weeks or months. this is the bit that confusses me. they don't take the next step and purchase the full content and make use of LFS in its full glory.

Quote from dadge :

remember, the demo is only designed to give you an insight into what LFS S2 is all about. if it isn't enough to wet your appetite, then as the user, you should look at a different product that will satisfy your interests.

Take me for example. Like I said before, I don't play that often and demo satisfies my interests completely. I like LFS because of it's realistic physics, I don't care about how many cars on how many tracks I can drive. Sometimes I just feel I would like to race. And FBM on BW1 is all I need. Now, it's very difficult for a demo user who is completely satisfied by the demo to force himself to buy it (if he/she is not interested in S2 content). For me, the developers have of course made a good job but I don't think of them as gods who should have my wife, house and soul just because they have made the greatest piece of software humankind has ever known. Yes, I sound like an ****, but for me, LFS is a good game, a decent game, nothing more.

I mean, how many of you have bought WinRAR?

If the demo works for you , enjoy But you don't know what your missing and I'm not talking about more tracks or cars.

Quote from s01id :

Take me for example. Like I said before, I don't play that often and demo satisfies my interests completely. I like LFS because of it's realistic physics, I don't care about how many cars on how many tracks I can drive. Sometimes I just feel I would like to race. And FBM on BW1 is all I need. Now, it's very difficult for a demo user who is completely satisfied by the demo to force himself to buy it (if he/she is not interested in S2 content). For me, the developers have of course made a good job but I don't think of them as gods who should have my wife, house and soul just because they have made the greatest piece of software humankind has ever known. Yes, I sound like an ****, but for me, LFS is a good game, a decent game, nothing more.

I mean, how many of you have bought WinRAR?

Quote from s01id :

Take me for example. Like I said before, I don't play that often and demo satisfies my interests completely. I like LFS because of it's realistic physics, I don't care about how many cars on how many tracks I can drive. Sometimes I just feel I would like to race. And FBM on BW1 is all I need. Now, it's very difficult for a demo user who is completely satisfied by the demo to force himself to buy it (if he/she is not interested in S2 content). For me, the developers have of course made a good job but I don't think of them as gods who should have my wife, house and soul just because they have made the greatest piece of software humankind has ever known. Yes, I sound like an ****, but for me, LFS is a good game, a decent game, nothing more.I mean, how many of you have bought WinRAR?

i don't use winrar (7zip FTW!). nobody said the devs are gods and you should give your wife. what i said was if you enjoy LFS then wouldn't you want to support the devs. and again, you're not being forced to buy LFS.
if you didn't care bout the ammount of cars on track then you would not be playing online or with AI. you'd only use LFS demo for single car hotlapping. so, to say "all i want is to race the fbm at blackwood" is a contradiction to your previous statement. maybe you said it only to justify why you have not purchased the s2 content.
coming to the forum is also a clear indication that you are looking for more. you're looking for more information about the product. so for me, the demo has made you curious enough to find the forum.
i've just looked at your post history to see how long you've been coming to the forum.
i see you've made a few posts in the "cars we'd like to see in S3" thread. your posts tell a different story to the one you've just told me.

one of your first posts(8th December 2008):

Quote from s01id :

But don't worry, I have been thinking of buying S2 for a while now. At the moment, I just have more urgent things to do with my money. But as soon as I have enough free funds I will definitely get it.

what changed? if only you had saved 25pence per week, you'd only have 4 months of saving and then you would have the funds to purchase LFS.

Quote from s01id :

I mean, how many of you have bought WinRAR?

I don't recall paying giving you extra features? If I need to buy it I'll just use 7zip instead

Quote from dadge :

if you didn't care bout the ammount of cars on track then you would not be playing online or with AI. you'd only use LFS demo for single car hotlapping. so, to say "all i want is to race the fbm at blackwood" is a contradiction to your previous statement.

Wait, what? I think you have to read my post again. I said "I don't care about how many cars on how many tracks I can drive". Racing means competing with others. Of course I talked about playing online with FBM on BW1.

Quote from dadge :

maybe you said it only to justify why you have not purchased the s2 content

It sounds extremely lame but I don't think I need to justify myself. I'm just trying to make you, S2 racers, understand.

Quote from dadge :

i see you've made a few posts in the "cars we'd like to see in S3" thread. your posts tell a different story to the one you've just told me.

That was 2 years ago. It was during my "active" period. I was irriatated by the way demo users were treated in this forum. I really considered buying S2 but then I realised that I'm not that interested about it. I played for a month and then left for a year or even more.

And as I said before, I came to the forum yesterday to find some news about Scirocco.

And why is that? You will buy a license if the Sciricco gets released?

Quote from s01id :

Wait, what? I think you have to read my post again. I said "I don't care about how many cars on how many tracks I can drive". Racing means competing with others. Of course I talked about playing online with FBM on BW1.



It sounds extremely lame but I don't think I need to justify myself. I'm just trying to make you, S2 racers, understand.



That was 2 years ago. It was during my "active" period. I was irriatated by the way demo users were treated in this forum. I really considered buying S2 but then I realised that I'm not that interested about it. I played for a month and then left for a year or even more.

And as I said before, I came to the forum yesterday to find some news about Scirocco.

how can you not be interested in something and still be checking up on it 2 years later? us S2 racers completely understand. the problem is that demo users don't. they feel they are content with what they have. only to offer input in forums and then ask for more content. that's not how it works. to ask for more content, you first have to have tried everything the game has to offer. if you've only tried 5% of LFS how can you say that the game will be better if they added a skyline or a veyron when you haven't tried the GTR cars or the RB4?
to me, you're showing all the signs of a potential buyer, but you've not made that transition and to be honest, you've missed the party completely.

I think the most irritating part of the problem is not the demo at all. When I see "demoers" begging for new tracks and cars it's pretty clear to me that they are already getting more contents in the game then what they are supposed to (illegally) and I think it's pretty lame to dare asking for even more content on the official forum that they never helped to maintain financially.
LFS is no need for speed, LFS is a simulation and it's a pretty little niche market so the devs truly deserve your support if you enjoy the game. Their living consist of developing a brilliant simulation, the least you can do is to pay 18$usd for a license with which you can play for years without additional fees. Heck I almost always race alone or in LAN and I bought it anyway

The more support LFS receive, the more contents and life it'll get.

Quote from Skytrill :

I think the most irritating part of the problem is not the demo at all. When I see "demoers" begging for new tracks and cars it's pretty clear to me that they are already getting more contents in the game then what they are supposed to (illegally) and I think it's pretty lame to dare asking for even more content on the official forum that they never helped to maintain financially.
LFS is no need for speed, LFS is a simulation and it's a pretty little niche market so the devs truly deserve your support if you enjoy the game. Their living consist of developing a brilliant simulation, the least you can do is to pay 18$usd for a license with which you can play for years without additional fees. Heck I almost always race alone or in LAN and I bought it anyway

The more support LFS receive, the more contents and life it'll get.

word.

Quote from cargame.nl :

And why is that? You will buy a license if the Sciricco gets released?

No, I don't think so. Not anymore. Reasons are mentioned above. The thing with Scirocco is... Well, it's original release date was more that 18 months ago. If they had released it then, maybe that would have been the last nail on my demo-era's coffin. Now it's just pure curiosity (how long can it take?). By the way, are there some news about Scirocco? I haven't checked to the forums for a long time.

Quote from dadge :

how can you not be interested in something and still be checking up on it 2 years later? us S2 racers completely understand. the problem is that demo users don't. they feel they are content with what they have. only to offer input in forums and then ask for more content. that's not how it works. to ask for more content, you first have to have tried everything the game has to offer. if you've only tried 5% of LFS how can you say that the game will be better if they added a skyline or a veyron when you haven't tried the GTR cars or the RB4?
to me, you're showing all the signs of a potential buyer, but you've not made that transition and to be honest, you've missed the party completely.

Man, I told you (several times?): I was out of the scene for a long time. I heard someone talking about LFS and thought I should check to the LFS Forum.

About the red part. Sorry, but I just can't understand what you're saying. If you're talking about my more-than-2-year-old post (I'm 18, 2 years make a difference) in the "Cars we wanna see in S3" thread, then read the topic's title again. It's not "Cars you (developers) have to put into S3". I was only making a suggestion. Even suggestions are prohibited for demo racers?

Again, it was 2 years ago, don't get stuck on it.

don't take it personal. you're not the only demo user. i was talking about all demo users who are the same trend as you.

you seem to have an excuse for everything so i'll leave it at that before this thread is turned into the classic demo vs licensed flame war.

Brains statues

Quote from dadge :

don't you think that because you have 400+ "free" laps, it's unfair to the people who have paid for the game. a demo is meant to impress you enough to buy the full game. now, lets break the cost of LFS down a bit. it's £24 for S2 and £12 for S1. if you saved £1 per week, you'd have the money for LFS S1 in 3 months. S2 in 6 months. some demo users have been playing the demo for years on an internet connection that cost about the same as LFS S2 per month.
can't you see that 400+ laps on a demo is way more than enough to encourage you to buy the S2 content? having no money on your card is not LFS' problem.
imo, the demo should be restricted as already mentioned. i think my sig says it best.
EDIT: the way i see it, if you have no plans in buying LFS, then why should you have any content for an unlimited time?

Please don't assume I'm looking for free content, That's kind of insulting, And if you would have read that "New player's say hi here" You would have known that on the 25th I'm getting S2, It's not a money problem at all, And i don't know, S2 is probably great, But I'm basically only a Sunday driver, And i don't see how much i would get out of it. You ranting on me about price breakdown is no way to make friends now is it :P And how exactly is me running up 400+ laps to see if i like the way a certain car handles unfair to people that paid for the game? It's not like I've discovered a awesome way that allows me to play online with guys that paid for it, Neither am i looking for a handout to get it, If i don't have the money on my card, Thus means i cannot buy it? How is this not A problem? I can't buy it without it.

Edit: Okay, Messed up and misread the part about it being "Not a LFS problem" I don't see again, How 400+ laps is enough of anyone to buy the game, More like 1000, When you start constantly winning at blackwood, When you WANT to win at other races or maybe when you figure out how to tinker with car setups... Then, maybe it would be enough to buy LFS S2

Quote from TehPaws3D :

... And if you would have read that "New player's say hi here" You would have known that on the 25th I'm getting S2 ...

Well ... we are not new here. Why would we have to read that thread? I know that its nice to welcome people in there, but ...

Anyways, there could be official poll by devs wich lets us choose if demo should be restricted or not (Obviously, only S1 and S2 licence holders are allowed to vote). I doubt there will be any. Also, in theory - the devs should have to make the decision.

Edit:

Quote from s01id :

By the way, are there some news about Scirocco? I haven't checked to the forums for a long time.

Hint ... the scirocco is a lie

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Please don't assume I'm looking for free content, That's kind of insulting,

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Yet all you guys posting are S2'd, I don't have the money to buy it yet, Not on my card, At least, And it would be very unfair for me as i have already ran 400+ laps in a XFG (I believe) So.. Wtf? I'd instantly get kicked off or something? D=

that post was insulting to every licensed driver on LFS. it also shows you in a very selfish way. wouldn't you agree?

lets say a lap is one mile. you've driven 400 miles and you still can't make your mind up. come one dude, snap out of it. i'm not a stalker so yeah, i have not seen your post in the new players thread. maybe you should have pm'd me this info?

i can tell you exactly what you will get out of LFS when you buy it. more cars and more track plus bigger grids.
this post is more of a rant than any of my previous posts in this thread so i don't really know what you're talking about when it comes to me breaking down the price of lfs.
maybe read my post again. i said you not having money on your card is in no way a LFS' problem.
so, let me get this straight, if you win 1000 races you will buy LFS? you're not making sense. if you're saying it's the winning that's is LFS' unique selling point then you couldn't be any more wrong. win or lose, it's the racing that's the selling point. that coupled with great physics. it took me only a few races for me to realise i was onto a winner.

Well right now there are 300 licensed racers online, and 500 demo racers.
Is the balance right?
I agree that some amount of 'demo' will encourage people to buy, but it seems that the majority will just keep on taking what's free. In the meantime, I'm struggling to find a decent race because there aren't really enough licensed racers for more than one public server, so you get all sorts in there.

People wouldn't keep playing if they weren't 'getting benefit' from the demo. And no-one can complain if they are getting something of value for nothing & it's then restricted.
I also imagine the number of people who really can't afford to buy is a very small fraction of players. People are just getting too used to 'getting stuff for free'.
Where will it end?

i have been comparing the LFS demo to the Mafia2 demo recently. i have not hacked or cracked the demo and i feel that the mission provided even with only 20mins of gameplay allowed, i'm still going to buy Mafia2. even the video at when you exit was enough to make me want to buy Mafia2. i think if LFS has somethign as simple as a small video at the end to showcase what is on S2 licensed, it would help steer more demo users towards making the final step and purchasing.

Well, 5min ago one dude added me on skype and asked about the LsC cruise insim. Basically he sayd that hes a demo user and needs help with the insim. Idk, kinda messy stuff but well ... another cracker who WILL keep playing thedemo and trying to get more content out of it.

Edit: He told me that he cracked the game and he makes S2 servers (probably via hamachi or some sort of). So he wants LsC insim on the server now. Please set some restrictions on the demo ... devs ... please?