The problem I have is where you have a driver who puts another driver in a situation where they have to yield or there'll be a crash. That's what Alonso and Hamilton both did today. What's the difference between Alonso moving across on Vettel at the start and dive-bombing someone from 50 metres back? In both cases you're relying on the other person realising you're there and yielding to stop a collision. In Hungary Schumacher almost did this to Barrichello but he left just enough room. So many people went crazy about it, calling for Schumacher to be penalised in some way. Alonso was more ruthless than that today and it was only because Vettel yielded that there wasn't a collision.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Which he would have easily done if Hamilton had let him enough room.

He did have enough room though, that's what I'm saying... Webber just ran way too deep and wanted even more room, which was never going to be available.

Quote from JPeace :

In my opinion, Hamilton left as much gap as Kubica did for Sutil.

Anyway, on another subject. The rules clearly state, that once you pick up speed in a considerable manner (race speed) when you are leading the pack acting as the safety car, you must not then descrease racing speed unless acting to aviod and accident and/ or slow for a corner. I counted twice Alonso picked up speed, slowed dramatically then gunned it again. Its a shame the officials seemed to have missed this. Also I saw multiple times Alonso brake tested Vettel, although this may have just been a dodgy camera angle, but my first point I am very much sticking too. Anyone else see this?

that's all very normal at the restart after a safety car period through, it's been happening for years...

All I have to say Singapore is deferentially turning into one of the highlight events of the year.

Most sport is mostly pyschological. There's no way Webber would, or should, have just said, "There you go, Golden Boy - have the points." This is the World Driver's Championship.

Stewards said racing incident, and it could have hurt Webber more than Hamilton, but there's times in your life when don't back down.

Quote from amp88 :

What's the difference between Alonso moving across on Vettel at the start and dive-bombing someone from 50 metres back? In both cases you're relying on the other person realising you're there and yielding to stop a collision.

Vettel didn't have any overlap at all when Alonso started to move across the track. There was nothing dangerous whatsoever in what Alonso did. If Vettel had decided to try and pass when the gap was too small then that would have been dangerous. But he didn't, because that would have been stupid. He also didn't even mention that he thought Alonso's move was dangerous afaik.

Quote from amp88 :

In Hungary Schumacher almost did this to Barrichello but he left just enough room. So many people went crazy about it, calling for Schumacher to be penalised in some way. Alonso was more ruthless than that today and it was only because Vettel yielded that there wasn't a collision.

I think Alonso immediately moved to defend his position at the start and Vettel was at no point beside him. Schumacher waited until Barrichello decided to go inside him and then squeezed him towards the wall - continuing to do so when the cars were beside one another. Still, I didn't think that the incident in Hungary was a clear-cut penalty by any stretch. Rubens could have backed off if it was so dangerous but he didn't. Still, the incidents were different for the reasons I already outlined.

Quote from amp88 :

What's the difference between Alonso moving across on Vettel at the start and dive-bombing someone from 50 metres back? In both cases you're relying on the other person realising you're there and yielding to stop a collision.

The difference is that changing your line once to prevent someone passing you is allowed. Wrecking someone isn't.

The reason that Hamilton has now had 2 DNF's is because of his aggressive driving. He got away with it in GP2 and thinks he can do the same in F1. He is finding out that the F1 boys won't stand for this kind of intimidation and when Hamilton places his car 'in-the-way' he gets his comeuppance.

Then to top it all' he throws a steering wheel costing a mere £150,000 onto the floor! I hope he pays for a new one? What a tosser eh?

Quote from g7usl :

Then to top it all' he throws a steering wheel costing a mere £150,000 onto the floor! I hope he pays for a new one? What a tosser eh?

Eh, a million! You sure about that price?

Quote from Seb66 :

He did have enough room though, that's what I'm saying... Webber just ran way too deep and wanted even more room, which was never going to be available.

That's way too deep ?? His LR still on the inside curb when they make contact.

Quote from g7usl :

Then to top it all' he throws a steering wheel costing a mere £150,000 onto the floor! I hope he pays for a new one? What a tosser eh?

Because no other driver has ever done the same!

Nick Heidfeld's return was rather poor.

Quote from joshdifabio :

Vettel didn't have any overlap at all when Alonso started to move across the track.

I'm pretty sure he did (which is why I'm even mentioning it in the first place). Waiting for video evidence to get some good stills and actually analyse it though. If you (or anyone else) gets any before I do please post.

Quote from amp88 :

I'm pretty sure he did (which is why I'm even mentioning it in the first place). Waiting for video evidence to get some good stills and actually analyse it though. If you (or anyone else) gets any before I do please post.

IIRC from the on-board they showed on the post-race forum, Vettel didn't have any over lap but just a very good run on him. He had to go out the throttle to go right to avoid hitting his rear.

Quote from amp88 :

I'm pretty sure he did (which is why I'm even mentioning it in the first place). Waiting for video evidence to get some good stills and actually analyse it though. If you (or anyone else) gets any before I do please post.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... t/formula_one/9034642.stm

Alonso waits a long time before doing it and his move is violent. Vettel has his RF wheel almost inside of Alonso. Fernando was just going to shove him in the wall. Dirty driving. Should be a ten place penalty.

Quote from Seb66 :

He did have enough room though, that's what I'm saying... Webber just ran way too deep and wanted even more room, which was never going to be available.

Did you watch the replay?

Webber was on the kerb with 2 wheels and Hamilton almost hit the apex. See Phil's pics.

It would be good to get some decent quality onboards from Vettel and Alonso to frame-by-frame it but if there isn't any overlap before Alonso starts moving left it's incredibly close. By the time Alonso has closed the gap to the point where Vettel needs to act to avoid a collision there is certainly overlap.

Quote from CSF :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/h ... t/formula_one/9034642.stm

Alonso waits a long time before doing it and his move is violent. Vettel has his RF wheel almost inside of Alonso. Fernando was just going to shove him in the wall. Dirty driving. Should be a ten place penalty.

Looking at that Alonso moved a lot later than I thought. I can't tell for certain from that angle but it looked like he probably had some overlap after all. If that's the case then I think it's quite marginal. I still don't think it's quite as bad as the Schumacher/Barrichello incident mostly because Vettel yielded before it got dangerous and as such we don't really know how far Alonso would have gone.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Did you watch the replay?

Webber was on the kerb with 2 wheels and Hamilton almost hit the apex. See Phil's pics.

Yet knowing you the Schumacher v Heidfeld incident is all old man rivers fault. Troll.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Did you watch the replay?

Webber was on the kerb with 2 wheels and Hamilton almost hit the apex. See Phil's pics.

To be fair Webber couldn't have not been on the kerb no matter how fast he was going because he braked right on the inside :P

Screenie is from this video.

When I saw the replay I thought Lewis had just about given Mark enough room, but at the moment of the screenie that's debatable.

FYI incase you didn't see it on the TV, Lewis said he didn't see Mark as he was in his blind spot.

EDIT: But, Hamilton was ahead into the corner and Mark didn't have overlap on the inside, so technically he should have conceded it anyway.

Quote from CSF :

Yet knowing you the Schumacher v Heidfeld incident is all old man rivers fault. Troll.

Of course!

I never claimed to be objective.

He should have obviously gotten a 3 minute penalty for Kobayashi's divebomb earlier in the race as well. Those eejit stewards.

The Alonso/Vettel start incident was identical to the start of the Hockenheim race by the way. I think that Schumi's penalty at Hungary largely owed to the fact that he forced Barrichello across the pit exit at high speed.

Quote from zeugnimod :

Of course!

I never claimed to be objective.

He should have obviously gotten a 3 minute penalty for Kobayashi's divebomb earlier in the race as well. Those eejit stewards.

Yes of course, remember to take your pills Zeug.

Seen this ? Wow.

http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/0 ... r-as-tyre-holds-together/

The tyre made it through the 26 laps after the clash despite being ‘unseated’ from the rim. Webber felt a vibration and actually ended the race with a blister on his hand. The team’s telemetry did not show a loss of pressure, but there was an unusual indication that the volume of the air in the tyre had changed. The tyre finally lost its air as the car sat in parc ferme.

Conclusions from Monza & Singapore:

'05/'06 Alonso is back

'07/'08 Hamilton is back, unfortunately for him