We need more ground effect, not less.

In wet conditions they would need to make the wet tyres a bit bigger to raise the ride height - they already are bigger than the drys, but we're only talking a couple of mm.

Team: "Sebastien, how's the light level?"
Seb: "I can't see sh*t"

Team: "Lewis, how's the light level?"
Ham: "It's fine!"



How different would it have been if they had given in and stopped the race early?

Quote from Dygear :

These cars would not of aquaplaned as the water level never went above ride height.

The excuse that the track is to slippy is a bonkers thing for a race driver to say. Yeah, it's wet, deal with it, it's the same track for everyone else!

The drivers were not worried about the grip, they were worried about the visibility, like less than 10 metres, and fair enough too. The lack of grip just compounds the problem as you wont see anything happening infront of you till the last minute, and the lack of grip means you cant take avoiding action. Infact you can see from Rosberg coming off that this is exactly what happened. Any dry race and Rosberg could have avoided Webbers trundling car. Incidentally I find it amazing that anyone on here can blame on Webber! The stewards and commentators (who know a hell of alot more than anyone on here) certainly didnt blame him in any way shape or form!

Aquaplaning is not just to do with the cars ride height. There are two sorts of aqauplaning at work. Too much standing water and the tyres float on the top the same way a skimmed stone skips. The other (ride height related) is that the spray buffets the underside of the car to such a degree that it lifts the car up slightly. The water does not need to be deep for this to happen, there just needs to be enough spray.

Quote from dynofiend :

Aquaplaning is not just to do with the cars ride height. There are two sorts of aqauplaning at work. Too much standing water and the tyres float on the top the same way a skimmed stone skips. The other (ride height related) is that the spray buffets the underside of the car to such a degree that it lifts the car up slightly. The water does not need to be deep for this to happen, there just needs to be enough spray.

I would imagine it's much more frequently the former, that the tyres simply cannot clear the volume of water away fast enough. The full wet tyre is incredible at clearing water, but I'd be astonished if it can fling up so much water that it actually lifts the front of the car (with all its aero downforce) before the tyre itself starts to aquaplane.

Racing in that lightning was a major stupidity from the stewards.

But commercial interests were more important than safety that day.

I'd be astonished too :eye-poppi

The plank runs very low to the floor so that might act like a keel, but I can't see water spray lifting both the car's weight and the downforce - we're talking about a couple of tonnes.

Quote from sinbad :

The full wet tyre is incredible at clearing water, but I'd be astonished if it can fling up so much water that it actually lifts the front of the car

They stated on commentary that the spray from the tyres could fill an average bath in 3 seconds

In very wet conditions the plank can indeed 'float' on standing water - liquids are incompressible, so if the water is deep enough it doesn't matter how much downforce the car has - if the floor of the car is lifted off the track then you will lose all your grip. Instantly.

Spray under the car isn't an issue, as the spray (effectively a coarse vapour) is compressible.

And whilst the tyres can clear a LOT of water, the cars are traveling quite fast - sometimes being able to fill a bath in 3 seconds isn't enough clearance.

Quote from Lible :

Racing in that lightning was a major stupidity from the stewards.

But commercial interests were more important than safety that day.

/slightly offtopic

The end of the race reminded of the last round of the british champs last year



Basically what happened is light was fading, and if the race was cancelled due to light the leading driver would be crowned championship. So the leading team put in a load of protests and as a consequence the race would be delayed and he'd be champion.

It was getting dark but the officials said "your racing" and we have pretty much zero commercial interests. The 2nd place driver had to play tactics to slow up the driver behind so he'd lose places etc... blahhh to gain championship.

Anyway... best race ever! Literally sparks flying off karts at night, with no lighting at all.. freakin' crazy

also sometimes you can't get enough grip to get to the speed where the downforce will push you through the water layer, bit of a catch 22 same as when you're tyres go cold / soft and you can't get the grip to push them hard enough to warm them up

Quote from tristancliffe :

In very wet conditions the plank can indeed 'float' on standing water - liquids are incompressible, so if the water is deep enough it doesn't matter how much downforce the car has - if the floor of the car is lifted off the track then you will lose all your grip. Instantly.

Spray under the car isn't an issue, as the spray (effectively a coarse vapour) is compressible.

And whilst the tyres can clear a LOT of water, the cars are traveling quite fast - sometimes being able to fill a bath in 3 seconds isn't enough clearance.

That makes more sense, although I'm sure the tyres also would be at least at the point at which they start to aqua-plane if you ran the car through a puddle deep enough to cause the floor to skip across the surface. I suppose the lower the speed the more likely the tyres are to clear that volume of water.

Ahem...

I guess Berger is too...

Quote from garph :...a total ****ing moron.

And Rosberg...

Quote :

Gerhard Berger has accused Mark Webber of wanting to take out a championship rival after crashing in Sunday's Korean Grand Prix.

Australian Webber, who at the time was leading the world championship by 14 points, spun on a wet kerb whilst running second at Yeongam and struck the wall.

But his Red Bull then rolled back across the circuit, collecting the Mercedes of Nico Rosberg.

"I don't understand why Webber didn't hit the brakes," said Rosberg. "It was crazy to roll back across the track like that."

Former Grand Prix winner Berger said on Monday: "He could have hit the brakes and stopped the car at the wall.

"He took out Rosberg, but it was the wrong one. I think in his mind he would have preferred Alonso or Hamilton," the former Ferrari and McLaren driver told Austrian Servus TV.

Asked to clarify whether he thinks Webber's move was deliberate, Berger - a former co-owner of the second Red Bull team Toro Rosso - added: "Yes, I think that's very clear.

"He goes off and he knows it's over. In this moment you're frustrated and a thousand thoughts go through your head.

"It's very obvious, you can see his wheels are not locked up. Perhaps he had a brake problem, but I don't think so."

I shall now get my coat.

Have a good one.

Quote from DevilDare :

Ahem...

I guess Berger is too...


And Rosberg...

Well, it's obviously proven, then.

Not proven. Who said that? Jeez...

But saying anyone who even considered it is a complete ****ing moron is... well... lets just say silly.

Berger has no ulterior motive

Ridiculous statement... Would he also say Schumacher stopped on purpose in the corner during Monaco qualifying 2006

What?

So I guess in your world Schumacher didnt take out Hill to win WDC in 94 Adelaide..

Or his attempt to repeat the same in 97 Jerez.

This is also a perfect counter argument to anyone who says, "No driver would crash on purpose."

Devildare, i was being sacrcastic. MSC definitely stopped on purpose acting as if he had understeering, but you can see he provoked it.

Read my other post here; I am in firm belief Webber could have avoided coming back on track.

Ahhh. Sorry. My sarcasm detector is broken it seems.

Must be all the chaos with Virgin Media on the phone...

It takes them 3 weeks to send off a letter. Go figure.

It's pretty amazing how you spend your days arguing with each other like your life depends on it

wear can i find this not the steering wheel the dash? sorry for bad eng

Quote from lillsnortan :

wear can i find this not the steering wheel the dash? sorry for bad eng

wear can i find this not the steering wheel the dash? sorry for bad eng

What the...?

Wrong thread, bro.