http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2010/10/11448.html

I think Bernie has been a huge part of F1 and possibly for a few more years, what do you guys think he has done that has been good or bad over the years?

meh, the fogies need to go... flavio too.

Hard to say what F1 would've been without him, so it's a rather tough question.

Obviously most of the motorsports "fans" are going to hate him as he's the symbol of the transformation of a closed sport to a massive business.

The notions of "good" or "bad" are quite hard to define, whether you still take F1 as a sport or as a business, therefore I will take the question as what I liked or disliked in his actions, as a basic motorsports "fan".

What I liked in his actions, obviously, it was to avoid any split over the years. We all know it would have been disastrous for F1, just look at what happened to Single Seaters racing in America, which is just about to recover(while some tensions are going back within the teams as I heard...). It was also quite courageous of him to not give too much power to the car manufacturers, as they more or less all GTFOed in the end.

What I disliked in his actions... Having the skills for pulling sarcastic quotes without realising that everyone take them seriously, which probably hurts F1's reputation(ie, the one on the shortcuts). Removing most traditional venues of the calendar for countries that have more or less no "fan base" and have no tradition in motorsports. The lack of transparency in FOM. Having failed to get a decent internet based marketing point. Being blatently preparing himself to give an important job to Flavio within the FOM.

Hard to say what F1 will become without him though, but for the sake of motorsports I just hope Flavio won't get any important function when he dies.

Good:
Very rich financial base for F1.

Bad:
Lack of transparency; over-involvement of personal agenda and interests.

lol @ the present from red bull

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/201 ... of-slowing-down-pictures/

Quote from Gerdoner :

lol @ the present from red bull

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/201 ... of-slowing-down-pictures/

Epic

Quote from Gerdoner :

lol @ the present from red bull

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/201 ... of-slowing-down-pictures/

awesome!

in fact Bernie only killed everything which was against Formula one with his friends Jean Marc Balestre and his other friend Max Mosley...Group B was so sexy and people were so attracted by it :o sad to hear that Toivonen was killed in a crash at Le tour de Corse...such a good way to stop it and destroy one of the biggest F1 enemy...rally wasn't a problem anymore This is quite funny (in fact not so much at all) to compare that bad day with May 1st, 1994...and see the difference between the consequences of both accident.

So after 1987 rally was killed because no one was exited by these new ... things? But Bernie wasn't happy...indeed Audi, Peugeot, Lancia...went to Le Mans and not to formula one. Bernie wasn't quite happy to see that Mercedes return in auto racing was there too and not in formula one. So they decided to change the technical rules...ACO was so idiot and accepted it. So finally LM prototyp and formula one engine were the same in 1991 : 3.5 liter V10 N/A. This new class was called C1, old group C were renamed C2. Everything was done to favorize it so it was decided that C1 would start Le Mans 24 hours in 10 first place. So in June 1991, Peugeot started from pole position whereas the 905 did only the 11th best time during practise sessions...Several other constructor have done some C1 like Jaguar and Mercedes, but finally for Le Mans Jaguar decided to use old C2 (which weren't prepared until 1 month before Le Mans) and new C1 class was unreliable so Pugs and Mercedes retire quite fast...and Mazda won Le Mans . In 1992 only Peugeot and Toyota continued their programm and when FIA decided to stop WSC. it was almost the end of Le Mans ! Peugeot finally joined formula one circus and bernie was happy.

That is the story about how Bernie, JMB almost killed auto-racing. And today this is quite the same...WRC almost reborn rally but finally it didn't survive the end of McRae, Sainz, Burns...period and now Sebastien Loeb is quite alone. Le Mans was back in 1999 with an incredible field (Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, Panoz, Porsche, Ferrari ...) but once again FIA changed rules and killed old GT1 class (goodbye Mclaren F1 GTR, CLK GTR, 911 GT1 98...). LMP new class which is that time only administrate by ACO (FIA is copying ACO rules for its SR1 and SR2 classes ;p) it seems that it is slowly reborning.

So in fact Bernie maybe did some great things for formula one prestige but he has almost killed auto racing as it was...before it, it was a sport that some people practice because they were passionated by mechanical aspect and the incredible exitment of the speed. Now auto racing is a job. A job as another one, which cost lot of money. When I see that some really good drivers can't express their talent because of money (think that some driver here can confirm). Of course Bernie have only continued the work that some started before but anyway he killed a way of racing which was...racing. a special atmosphere, people were first happy to be there and race. Only race ! now when you go to a formula one grand prix or to another big event you aren't allowed to go the paddock (of course I mean in Europe, thanks god american aren't the same). You have to pay for everything so auto racing is a buisness !

Another aspect he developed is that the only place to race was single seater...indeed formula one is the only race that young driver know, so they all want to compete their and be the next Schumacher. So no one care about endurance or tourism which are so interesting to watch, drive and where the atmosphere is still something close to passion. So there are so many driver wanted to do the same things that finally they are all losing their time and money...I'm sorry to say them that they are not going to race one day in F1. Some of them understand that and finally join another class and manage to race in some prestigious race like Le Mans or Indianapolis and win it ! I'm not sure Timo Berhardt or Romain Dumas would have managed to win Monaco Grand Prix...So in fact thanks to him auto racing simply sucks

Where is the time when Juan Manuel Fangio was fighting against Mike Hawthorn at Monza to take a revenge from the 24 hours of Le Mans ? When Henri Pescarolo win a rally with his Matra or when Sir Stirling Moss manage to win an incredible race in Italia making 1608kms in only few more than 10hours in italian tortuos road...When Gilles Villeneuve, René Arnoux where fighting in last lap side by side at Dijon, and then eat together with Jabouille, Larrousse and some other french formula one current driver. I'm not sure that today Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton often eat together...

So : Merci Bernie !

EDIT : I feel better now
EDIT2 : yes, I had a bad day ^^

Quote from MoMo92i :

Le Mans was back in 1999 with an incredible field (Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, Panoz, Porsche, Ferrari ...) but once again FIA changed rules and killed old GT1 class (goodbye Mclaren F1 GTR, CLK GTR, 911 GT1 98...)

Now that was out of safety reasons. That really shouldn't count. Was sad to see them go, but still.

In fact same problem was on LMP and that was the reason of Michele Alboreto death. ACO have made a serious study about flipping problem of prototyp and have already decided to change his rules because of that. In LMP regulation you have a mandatory extractor. This one was studied in orfer to not flip. It seems that it was ok when the prototyp were in the good way, but still flip when it spins at high speed like Benoit Tréluyer, Stéphane Ortelli or Marc Gene can say

So they could have taken these restrictions on old GT1. Basically Bentley speed 7 and 8 and 908 are something like old GT1. So for me, it wasn't a necessity to stop that class. The other argument is the cost of that class...compared to formula one and when I see the number of constructor which were in that class, I doubt it was such a problem ^^

Quote from MoMo92i :

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Great post

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Of course Bernie have only continued the work that some started before but anyway he killed a way of racing which was...racing. a special atmosphere, people were first happy to be there and race

Isn't that the case for most professional sports though? Money changed anyone of them in some ways after all, and eventually removed any friendly athmosphere or similar.

It's a fair bet that even without Bernie, someone would've realised at some point the money he could make if he managed to broadcast races and sell the rights to big TV companies.

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WRC almost reborn rally but finally it didn't survive the end of McRae, Sainz, Burns...period and now Sebastien Loeb is quite alone.

IMO it quite didn't fade off because McRae, Sainz or Burns retired, but because Richards came and made silly changes(only one main assistance, no more night stages, removing historic races(Safari, Corsica) or making them piss off from the calendar with changes they couldn't accept(Monte Carlo). And also because manufacturers made the costs explode, before they eventually couldn't afford the whole thing and quitted(with no reaction from the FIA or course).

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Another aspect he developed is that the only place to race was single seater...indeed formula one is the only race that young driver know, so they all want to compete their and be the next Schumacher. So no one care about endurance or tourism which are so interesting to watch, drive and where the atmosphere is still something close to passion. So there are so many driver wanted to do the same things that finally they are all losing their time and money...I'm sorry to say them that they are not going to race one day in F1. Some of them understand that and finally join another class and manage to race in some prestigious race like Le Mans or Indianapolis and win it !

Well, F1's feeders are also endurance/touring cars's feeders aren't they? Sure some people are wasting money on GP2/WSR while not realising they don't have the skills for F1/don't have a milliardaire in his familly like van der Garde or Herck, and should have switched to something else earlier. But most people in feeder single seaters series have the option to switch to endurance/touring cars at some point. Indy is another story also, they won't give you a car without looking at your carreer achievements unless you're called Milka Dunno. And Indy Lights must be rather expensive aswell I guess.

Well in fact what I see is that in Europe (and asia) single seaters series are more and more. F1, F2, F3, GP2, GP3, WSR 3.5, FR 2.0, FBM, formule ford...such a long way to go to the final aim and so hard to make the right choice each time you upgrade. In endurance there are less series, less teams so the way is easier to race at Le Mans (and there is 168 each year in Le Mans). In europe this is : VdeV/Speed series (prototyp 2.0L), Formula Le Mans, and LMP.

Rally is something really special because I think it is a enormous mess. So hard to understand and know every race ^^ (between international level, national, regional and different classes). This is maybe why it is still something close to the passion.

Endurance is really a team spirit so there is a special atmosphere there but as we have seen with Pescarolo drama, money is fighting against passion there too.

@ this post

Quote from MoMo92i :

in fact Bernie only killed everything which was against Formula one with his friends Jean Marc Balestre and his other friend Max Mosley...Group B was so sexy and people were so attracted by it :o sad to hear that Toivonen was killed in a crash at Le tour de Corse...such a good way to stop it and destroy one of the biggest F1 enemy...rally wasn't a problem anymore This is quite funny (in fact not so much at all) to compare that bad day with May 1st, 1994...and see the difference between the consequences of both accident.

Rally and F1 are two different thing, markets are different and for the most part the manufacturers involved in them have been different ones. Rallying was popular back then but not as popular as F1. Neither was Group C/World Sportscar Championship.

And bad comparison to Senna & 1994. It wasn't just one accident in rallying. There were several accidents during the last two years of Group B and all of the had something to do with bad safety of the cars and lack of crowd control.

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But Bernie wasn't happy...indeed Audi, Peugeot, Lancia...went to Le Mans and not to formula one.

Umm... Audi - 13 years after Group B, Peugeot came in the end of 1990 and 1986 was Lancia's last year with a factory team in WSC. I guess you also forgot that Lancia - btw, part of Fiat group so who expected them to be in F1 anyway - continued in rallying with the new Group A rules (Delta HF Integrale).

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Bernie wasn't quite happy to see that Mercedes return in auto racing was there too and not in formula one. So they decided to change the technical rules...ACO was so idiot and accepted it. So finally LM prototyp and formula one engine were the same in 1991 : 3.5 liter V10 N/A. This new class was called C1, old group C were renamed C2. Everything was done to favorize it so it was decided that C1 would start Le Mans 24 hours in 10 first place. So in June 1991, Peugeot started from pole position whereas the 905 did only the 11th best time during practise sessions...Several other constructor have done some C1 like Jaguar and Mercedes, but finally for Le Mans Jaguar decided to use old C2 (which weren't prepared until 1 month before Le Mans) and new C1 class was unreliable so Pugs and Mercedes retire quite fast...and Mazda won Le Mans . In 1992 only Peugeot and Toyota continued their programm and when FIA decided to stop WSC. it was almost the end of Le Mans ! Peugeot finally joined formula one circus and bernie was happy.

By the way, Bernie's company owned the commercial rights to World Sportscar Championship. I suppose he is smart enough not to destroy something he practically owned. Maybe F1 was copied too much but he tried to raise the bar, changing the format to viewer friendly etc. FIA made some mistakes with the technical rules but if anything, the engine rule change only proved how far it really was from F1 in terms of general popularity. No viewers, no money.

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So in fact Bernie maybe did some great things for formula one prestige but he has almost killed auto racing as it was...before it, it was a sport that some people practice because they were passionated by mechanical aspect and the incredible exitment of the speed. Now auto racing is a job. A job as another one, which cost lot of money. When I see that some really good drivers can't express their talent because of money (think that some driver here can confirm). Of course Bernie have only continued the work that some started before but anyway he killed a way of racing which was...racing. a special atmosphere, people were first happy to be there and race. Only race ! now when you go to a formula one grand prix or to another big event you aren't allowed to go the paddock (of course I mean in Europe, thanks god american aren't the same). You have to pay for everything so auto racing is a buisness !

Not everything he has done have been great but you're crazy if you're saying he ALONE transformed motor racing into even more professional sport. And it has always been a business.

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Another aspect he developed is that the only place to race was single seater...indeed formula one is the only race that young driver know, so they all want to compete their and be the next Schumacher. So no one care about endurance or tourism which are so interesting to watch, drive and where the atmosphere is still something close to passion. So there are so many driver wanted to do the same things that finally they are all losing their time and money...I'm sorry to say them that they are not going to race one day in F1. Some of them understand that and finally join another class and manage to race in some prestigious race like Le Mans or Indianapolis and win it ! I'm not sure Timo Berhardt or Romain Dumas would have managed to win Monaco Grand Prix...So in fact thanks to him auto racing simply sucks

That's like saying it's wrong that 13-year-old future footballer is dreaming of playing in the World Cup final final because it happens to be the highest level of that sport or that a professional footballer playing in a top club is less passionate than some amateur player playing some minor league.