Thank you Scawen for the report.

This is an interresting concept. Developing a tyre model and measuring that instead of real tyres... Of course it has the advantage of a "finished" and deterministic model, so with the constantly growing computational capacity of our PCs lead to this model, but since then it can be approximated with various accuracies, so it can be computed realtime. The other advantage is the easy and fast measurement. I hope the base model is - or will be - good enough, so with the faster computers we can easily get better and better tire physics with a short development time.

Quote from Amynue :

Some people in this thread seems to be unbelievably smart since they say 2 years for developement of the tire physics is way to long and they would do it faster, so I have a question for you.

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/pics/tyre_04.jpg

Which way the wheel rotates at this picture?
A. clockwise
B. counter-clockwise
C. doesn't rotate at all
D. jabba

D. Jabba. Definitely

Quote from r3zp3k7 :

I was just suggesting something for the Demo Racers...
I didn't say "S2 shouldn't get anything new" !
Probably some Demo Racers are waiting from two years too, soo ?
And just to add that you did not udnerstand me right, my guess...
I said that that new stuff isn't enough for S3 and it should be a new patch(which means that S2 should get it)... illepall

Demo users got enough of content, actually more than enough. Since it offers 3 different cars and a multiplayer mode (Racing against 11(12 with bug) opponents, using skins online, fighting for WR etc.). Demo racers should be getting only General improvements for now (like Physics improvements) instead of any content, atleast because of reason Isaac stated.

Also, Scawen saying that this thread is going to be here for a long time just makes me think he is trying to buy himself more time, because he posted the same thing last year. Sure Victors programs are nice, but they arent directly involved in the gameplay development, thats for movie making and screenshot generating. And didnt he say once that LFS isnt a screenshot simulator? I got full respect towards developers work, but its really either they messed up very badly while calculating stuff, or progress is just slow (motivation issues, real life issues, you name it they got it..)

Still patiently waiting, but my like many others interest is leaning towards other sims / genres slowly.

Quote :

Originally Posted by Amynue
Some people in this thread seems to be unbelievably smart since they say 2 years for developement of the tire physics is way to long and they would do it faster, so I have a question for you.

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/pics/tyre_04.jpg

Which way the wheel rotates at this picture?
A. clockwise
B. counter-clockwise
C. doesn't rotate at all
D. jabba

I'd say clockwise, since the tyre is more, sorta, thick on the right (i've actually rechecked it in photoshop), so, if we imagine the forces on the tyre, that would be required to do this we can already figure out, which way the wheel is going, and therefore, which way it is turning.

I can be wrong though :X

Quote from Scawen :

This thread is going to be here a long time.

So, long time for the patch?

You can hardly say they (scawen) has messed up. You try simulating a real time physical enviroment as complex as Tyre construction and interaction. I surprised he hasn't roped in the LHC for all the computational power that needs. One desktop (possible up there in the Uber league, but you get my point), one man, one very busy life. He's doing a damn sight better than I would be doing. I'm impressed with how he's gone about it. A full 'scale' model of tyre interaction, if he can pull that off well then that alone would be worth a fortune.

Imagine the sponsership he could pull off with that. If you want real life cars, race cars and more then you let him develop a commercial simulator that real life Manufacturers and Racing teams would want.

LFS can only get better. Like any fine piece of engineering, it may not be the prettiest beast on the block, but by god she goes fast.

Well done Scawen and team. Your doing well. Keep it up.

Thanks Scavier! Merry christmas . Not so merry for me.

First of all,
Thanks Scawen for these little updates. But we, the LFS Drift Community thought, that there will be something big for us. But somehow, it sounds strange, that you guys were working over 2 years for such a little update (Scirocco, and Rockingham). We hope there will be some special content! Except the other new car, which i'm sure that i know that car.

We really hope you will make something out of it! Something that is as awesome as our newest LFS Drift Video. Thanks to Timba

I hope, with that, we can improve your thinking about us!

LFS - Drifting is in OUR hearts!

I've just read the new and the report, I feel good they are working on something hard, but it is quite not a "progress report", since the mentioned investigation program might have been coded for more than a year already.
We can imagine that this program finished to bring conclusions to the devs about the real tire physics, but there is not any mention of progress of the implementation of the adapted tire physics code into the game. We just know that it is a hard task, and I fear that this real-time-in-game code will be near impossible to accomplish for the devs if I take in account their high expectations they showed us these last two years.

About the delayed release of the new track, it doesn't really matter for my personally, but I think that telling "we decided to wait for the updated tyres because these things from the real world will be best experienced with the most realistic physics system." is ridiculous.
OK for the Scirocco, I would be glad if its release is canceled for ever, but for the track?! What is the connection between new tire physics and the track? why the first is needed for the second? What the devs are afraid of? That we pick up a specimen of one of the realistic cars of the game, a FBM or the BF1, go to the real track, get lap times and assassinate the devs because LFS would not be able to reproduce these real lap times in the current state of the tire physics? :uglyhamme

If Scawen were to just compile and release (and fix bugs) in the physics he has at the moment and releases them with the game (and obviously the Scirocco and Rockingham) he would probably satisfy most users here. There's no reason he can't go back and perfect his tyre physics later on after. It's a win-win situation then.

And since this "loooooong" updates. Pretty much the half of our community left us.

Thanks Scawen for an progress update merry cristmass to all

Quote from Amynue :

Some people in this thread seems to be unbelievably smart since they say 2 years for developement of the tire physics is way to long and they would do it faster, so I have a question for you.

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/pics/tyre_04.jpg

Which way the wheel rotates at this picture?
A. clockwise
B. counter-clockwise
C. doesn't rotate at all
D. jabba

It's hard to see, but assuming the deformation is making the tyre deform in such a way that it's skinnier on the left, the tyre would be rotating clockwise.

And yes, I think 2 years is too long because it is. Not for creating the perfect sim, but that's a bad idea to try in realtime without making the minimum requirements some supercomputer. At least increase the minimum requirements to some processor post-2008, and perhaps even utilise nVidia cards with CUDA which is awesomely fast parallel processing.

I have never heard anything as unrealistic as expecting a world-class sim to run on ancient hardware. Quit trying.

Thanks for that sign of progress merry xmas to all

Quote from vistaman :

And since this "loooooong" updates. Pretty much the half of our community left us.

+1 on this :/

What about Rockingham? What about graphical updates? Are they related somehow to the tyre physics? I guess not so what's the problem? You Scawen are the first one to say this thread is going to stay alive for quite a long time so it's clear the development in nowhere near completion.
You are stating that the new physics will be more precise than the actual model so you're either waiting for a supercomputer of the actual days to be purchased by the mass or you're into a very big project that i doubt will take you quite some years to complete.
Someone said about F1 teams that spend quite a lot of money on studying the dynamics of the cars so what's wrong with you guys not understanding that the less people you employ the more the updates will take to be completed.
Since the actual tyre physics is not perfect and you want it to be like that we shouldn't be playing LFS now because it's not working the way it's supposed to be.
Can you explain why we can't have other updates apart from tyres?
Ah, i want to be precise about my "moaning" since it's so strange for somebody that i can have a very different opinion from the mass.
If i go to the Big Brother and then complain about people caring my own business i surely have some problems understanding life and communicating with people.
This is LFS forum so if there's nothing to speak about what's the purpose of the forum?
It's clear that the big event is the new release but it's been two years with no content and a lot of people quit with this sim in the end. So what's left if people like me can't criticize the way a report is made? I don't feel the report is such, i don't see any news at all in the report except for a tyre explanation and no idea of the completion of the project. If you're satisfied with that i suggest you to take some communication lessons since, like somebody said, Scawen is speaking like politicians.
What about Er...oh sh, he doesn't want make out a profit of this game anymore if he shows that kind of interest in the game.
You three seem really too busy for having time to promote your game in some way and make some extra earnings.

Quote from tmehlinger :

Get over yourself. Your management hobby isn't their problem, the money you spend on servers isn't their problem, and doing well in IGTC/MoE/whatever isn't their problem. They simply sell a product, what you do with it is your own business.

The sense of entitlement here is downright absurd. We're all excited for an update but they don't owe us shit. You got what you paid for, if you don't enjoy it anymore, move on and quit shitting up the discussion here.

lol, aren't you the hard man? The bad ass that knows what's important and what's not. Pathetic little man.

What he's saying is that he is trying to keep the community together and that it's hard because of the lack of updates.

If the unraveling of a part of the community is not a thing the devs care about I wouldn't know what is. And if someone is putting in effort to keep a part of the community running that's only commendable.

Get rid of that faux callous attitude, you only make yourself look like an ****.

Quote from RasmusL :

It's hard to see, but assuming the deformation is making the tyre deform in such a way that it's skinnier on the left, the tyre would be rotating clockwise.

And yes, I think 2 years is too long because it is. Not for creating the perfect sim, but that's a bad idea to try in realtime without making the minimum requirements some supercomputer. At least increase the minimum requirements to some processor post-2008, and perhaps even utilise nVidia cards with CUDA which is awesomely fast parallel processing.

I have never heard anything as unrealistic as expecting a world-class sim to run on ancient hardware. Quit trying.

Quote from Ferrero Rocher :

lol, aren't you the hard man? The bad ass that knows what's important and what's not. Pathetic little man.

What he's saying is that he is trying to keep the community together and that it's hard because of the lack of updates.

If the unraveling of a part of the community is not a thing the devs care about I wouldn't know what is. And if someone is putting in effort to keep a part of the community running that's only commendable.

Get rid of that faux callous attitude, you only make yourself look like an ****.

In fact the admins of the different servers are the people that allow the community to play since there's no joy in playing offline with the AI or trying to set a lan with 24 people on a daily basis.
Seems so strange that those people believe enad support the community more thatn devs do since there's no official server running and no official competitions from time to time.
What about such ideas?

Well, if so many people would like the tyre model to be released when it's not perfect according to the devs they ofcourse could also play the current LFS or any of the other sims out there, because those also aren't perfect according to LFS devs.

First of all Merry Xmas.

And I actually enjoyed reading it is seems you guys had initially bitten of more then you could chew.
But it al seems to go in a good direction now, what I am very curious about is the issues you found during testing.
And how you solved them but I guess those will remain a secret .

I'm really happy if the tyre grip under tyre heat issue has being solved, because it was basically al I wanted.
That and limited setup options on road cars, thus one of my many questions are the limited road car setups still in?
As in you can adjust some values in some cars to realistic limits?
As in no unrealistic crazy camber values on cars like: XRG,XFG,XRT,FZ50,RAC.
Also the crazy stiff anti roll bars and dampers, or the crazy gear ratios which can be freely adjusted?
Which IMO isn't really road car like will it be limited to realistic proportions?

Quote from vistaman :

LFS - Drifting is in OUR hearts!

It's.. beautiful :jawdrop:

Quote from Amynue :

Some people in this thread seems to be unbelievably smart since they say 2 years for developement of the tire physics is way to long and they would do it faster, so I have a question for you.

http://www.lfs.net/page_images/pics/tyre_04.jpg

Which way the wheel rotates at this picture?
A. clockwise
B. counter-clockwise
C. doesn't rotate at all
D. jabba

Is B,the wheel is accelerating...

You can see the force generated ( Red strip ) from the rim, the force is generated by counter-clockwise

The red strip generate the energy that move the car - the yellow strip is the pasive energy till reach again the point of the red strip

Hope you understand

Honestly I have no idea what the red and yellow strip means, but the tyre doesn't deform in that direction if spinning counter-clockwise..

Thx for the update!

What I'd be interested in: If I understood you right you are using an advanced, self developed non-realtime tyre model to verify the realtime tyre model. What are you using to verify the advanced model?

Quote from J.B. :

Thx for the update!

What I'd be interested in: If I understood you right you are using an advanced, self developed non-realtime tyre model to verify the realtime tyre model. What are you using to verify the advanced model?

This of course:

Quote from PoVo :

This of course:

Lol, good one!