Orion I think the management of this project has some failed. In every work/job/project you need to do some decent management otherwise the things go wrong. It seems LFS is nice picture of failining in many areas lately and management seems to be a big issue. I do work as a Project manager, managing people all the time and if you dont plan or manage properly always something go out of your hands.

Maybe there have a lot of in their pocket but with the feedback or reports its hard to bealive anymore.

They should have decide about things a years ago and now might be late....

Quote from cargame.nl :

I suspect that will be one of the main problems Scawen is struggling with

Really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

I think the management of this project has some failed.

Well i would say, they have not done any management except the micro management every programmer has to do, in order to keep track of the bugs and todos. Its clearly a disadvantage of the way development Scawen and Eric had chosen in the very beginning.
But on the other hand this approach made LFS the way it was in the first couple of years - more like a little family of funny people having a nice time on track. When professionality found its way into LFS - mostly in shape of the big leagues like the ESL and the Intel racing tour - the community changed and the requirements to LFS changed as well.
The part about having a nice time got more and more subsidiary and for most of the old school people, LFS is not as much fun anymore because of all the 14 year old competition racers who just want to win. And the other part is just hanging out on cruise servers.

However, enough nostalgia, at the point it does imo not really make much sense to increase the development team. They should push really hard and make a reasonable S2 version as soon as possible, and then it is time to rethink the development model. There are plenty of different paths to S3, and only one seems silly now: Making all the new features and content and realeasing it all together when its done. LFS needs updates in 6 months cycles with new content (like 1 track and 3-4 cars), and the old stuff needs to be maintained as well. And every 1 or 1.5 years we need a new game version with a new major feature like night racing, rain, etc.

That it takes already over two years is kinda iffy. But the feeling I have is that the whole physics project is being held up by trying to polish away really minor issues and esoteric corner cases. I think the developers should set a target date and try to get the best compromise out by then, release it and then continue working on the model. Unless there are some terrible showstoppers, like running over a small bump sending you to the moon, there's no reason why that couldn't be done. Every project has to enter a compromise on what it launches or not at a certain point in time.

LFS has many shortcomings, but none of them get as much attention as the lack of updates.

The red-barrier-bug, the crash-physics, the locked diffs, the behaviour of tyre stacks and all those other problems really aren't showstoppers. But the lack of updates is.
Are the problems of the new tyre model, in comparison to LFS's current problems, really that large that it's worth killing the community over them? I wouldn't know, but at least Scawen is convinced they are.

Vain

Quote :

I never understand why devs did not open a possibility to have the car content created outside the dev team( it would did not take their resources a lot) and it would be devs who would allow after passing their quaility crateria and integrate. Could be the same with tracks.


So much nice potential lost from community....what areal shame :-(.

It has been explained so god damned many times before.


... all the crap in this thread is like watching a sad repeating movie repeat itself all over again - only to once again repeat next season.

Quote from Vain :

The red-barrier-bug

I wish this one would go away, especially because I like playing on custom maps.

Quote from Tom Servo :

I wish this one would go away, especially because I like playing on custom maps.

I always thought it was designed like that.

To be honest I'm not sure I'd want the red barrier bug to go away. Nothing is more satisfying than spotting some hotshot on a cruise server who's gone AFK, after doing 99 of this 100 lap bonus, only to gently push them into a barrier, and watch them go flying!

Yeah, but if you're playing on custom maps and have to deal with these idiots that don't know what a brake is or think they're clear immediately when the car they're overtaking is just out of the field of view, you'll be flying more often than not into these red barriers.

In combination with that, I figure it's about time to look into inter-car collision physics anyway, because it can't be that the guy who rear-ends you is able to keep control and stay on tracks virtually every time, while most often turning the rammee into a helicopter rotor.

Man when comes VWS? 2012? 2011?

2011, hopefully.

Anyone still gives a about the Scirocco? How can you possibly even care from the beginning? It's a 200 hp fwd car..
It's made to drive to work, not race on a track.

Quote from jasonmatthews :

the patch 2 years ago, when it was announced, was a nice surprise (but needed even then). To get the gtr interiors plus westhill updates was nice. The scirocco was a bonus. Then to hear it would be delayed a little for some physics updates was exciting. When we heard it involved stability control systems was cool. Then we heard it needed tyre physics updates aswell. At first i thought this would hold the patch for the other things back by a few weeks. What happened next?

Nothing.......

Why are the gtr interiors still not done? Why are the westhill updates not done?

Oh right, it was those tyre physics stopping it? No.

Why are the bugs in the ky tracks not fixed? Ummmmm....

Tyre physics? ......

What happened to breakable wings?

Tyre physics? ......

Call me a whiner all you like, but i cannot fathom for 1 second why this christmas, scavier couldn't have released a patch like this...
-------------------------------
hello lfs users,

we are glad to announce a new patch.

We are sorry we haven't been able to release the new car (scirocco), and s3 with the new track, but we have to take our time with the new tyre physics.

We would like to reassure you all we have been working hard on this and s3, but we have updated the gtr interiors and an update to westhill. We have also fixed the kerb bugs in kyoto so you should have a better experience in league racing.

We have also made breakable wings etc etc......

You can download the patch here - download

we understand you would like to try the new tyre physics and we can assure you that so far our model is alot better than before, but we hope you understand that we need to get this right before releasing it.

In the meantime, we will release small updates to the community as test patches, until we are ready to release a big update which will include the new physics update.

Thank you for your support.

Flame on:bananadea

agree 100%

Quote from RasmusL :

Anyone still gives a about the Scirocco? How can you possibly even care from the beginning? It's a 200 hp fwd car..
It's made to drive to work, not race on a track.

Sadly, Volkswagen doesn't agree with you, otherwise why should there be a Scirocco R-Cup, and VW entered the Scirocco also into the BF Goodrich Endurance Championship in Germany, winnin-Wait, I already said that.

Because it's a race version? While the car we're getting in LFS is a street version?

Quote from RasmusL :

Because it's a race version? While the car we're getting in LFS is a street version?

The Cup car doesn't exactely look like a race car, rather like a modified road car(Except the boost button).

Quote from Swiss-Spirit :

Sadly, Volkswagen doesn't agree with you, otherwise why should there be a Scirocco R-Cup, and VW entered the Scirocco also into the BF Goodrich Endurance Championship in Germany, winnin-Wait, I already said that.

Scirocco R is a Car wich was made by other people. Here in Wolfsburg VW made a new Department called "VW-R". So they are developing the Scirocco R and the other R-Line Cars , like the R36 or the Golf R. The normal Scirocco is only a street car and its the main product from VW

Well, VW still initiated that department.

No problem. Even though the R still looks very basic.

But I am starting to wonder like others if a simple road car is enough for the next patch...

The next patch is nothing to do with the scirocco, interiors, westhill updates, breakable wings or anything else mentioned before. It is about the tyre physics.

They are ALL being held up because of this, for over 2 years.

When it comes out, it will change LFS hugely.

Will anyone be around to appreciate it? .....

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

to Ori:

I did not said to hire people. I bet there a a lot poeple in the comunity who can provide high level of support for free. As I said before the more complex LFS getting the more time the things taking to develop/update....3 people are simply not enough anymore to keep the speed of the progress as was in past.

The lack of any feedback from Eric is not helping either. Its deplorable...

to sjava: comunity was trying to bring content to LFS. They arranged on their own a lot of things yet it was refused by devs. What I can say here...

I bet a lot of people could help making LFS better, speed up things.

IMHO, Scawen has created this sim with the user community in mind. Insim is a good example of this. I hope when he does release S2 final and S3, he will think about a track editor at least. How he controls that within LFS I have no idea, but it would certainly stop the need for us to be waiting years and years for content.

I am happy to wait for cars, as I believe they do need to be integrated into the physics correctly. But tracks?

With an editor, or better still an ability to import tracks from something like bob's track builder (google it), it would take away the pressure on the devs, allowing them to work on the physics and updates to sound and graphics etc. Also, it would negate the need to have licenses for the tracks..

Will it happen

Quote from kimd41 :

2011, hopefully.

people has written 26 pages but scawen has not yet said single date LOL LOL LOL

maybe in 30 years born S3 LICENSE or any actualitation of contain

in forthcome actuality contain update in 2011 year. armband of lfs will rain born forever as high sim actual.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

in forthcome actuality contain update in 2011 year. armband of lfs will rain born forever as high sim actual.

The old 'type something and then run it through a translator multiple times until it no longer makes sense' trick hey?

Sooooo 2008.

Quote from farcar :

The old 'type something and then run it through a translator multiple times until it no longer makes sense' trick hey?

Sooooo early 2009.

fixed

Actually, I posted that just from my head. No translator used.