/me wants to be count in
If our help is needed, Team Rock Racing is in for sure.
I could provide some servers maybe.
I could provide some servers maybe.
I have thought about this system for a long time now and will post something shortly.
Thanks again to everyone showing interest!
@ Turkey, I guess it is the idea of inter-server racing we talked about some time ago? Racing more or less equally at different team servers, bound by common AIRW racing statistics. I'm still processing the idea, I did not have much time recently to convert it into something tangible, but I believe the basic framework is possible to have. However, this attempt here is something else.
@ Turkey, I guess it is the idea of inter-server racing we talked about some time ago? Racing more or less equally at different team servers, bound by common AIRW racing statistics. I'm still processing the idea, I did not have much time recently to convert it into something tangible, but I believe the basic framework is possible to have. However, this attempt here is something else.
A little like that, but not, here is what I have written so far -
© Racing System
Co-op Racing System - About 1.5 years ago, I spent a few hours talking to eq-worry about an idea for a collaboration of server owners to produce a ctra style system of multiple servers, all linked together. Worry has just posted about it on the LFS forum here - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1561725
I also thought about bringing in an iRacing style format to the system. I think this would bring some much needed freshness to LFS public racing and if we can pull it off I think it could really be a great environment to race in. Think of iRacing but you own all the content and the community runs the system.
I will outline some of my ideas below.
© Racing System
System Integration
The Co-operative Racing System will consist of a farm of LFS servers, added by teams or server admins to the master database. All the servers will have their airio config controlled by the server, and the stats files from the server can be freely downloaded and used on external sites.
It would work like this - You would go to the co-op site and click on the admin link. This would then bring up a form where you would select from a dropdown box various choices, like Car Class and Race Length. You would then enter your servers ip address, insim port and admin password. The system would then check if it had an airio instance on that local machine. If it had, it would add your connection details and config to the airio and connect it. If not, it would use an external airio instance (not sure if this is practical yet).
This would mean the main database has full access to all the config and sta files for propagation across the whole system. The server admins then need not do anything else except keep an eye on their server, populate and police it if they want it to be popular.
Race Scheduling
Races would be scheduled by airio according to the race type. For now I would like to see 3 different versions of races and a qualification session.
1. Sprint races - 12 minute races every 15 minutes with no points awarded but SR does count. So races would start 9:00, 9:15, 9:30 etc
These races would not be the main part of the system, but would allow server owners to be part of the system and offer races in between the other sessions.
2. Race - 25 minute race with 1/2 points, starting either on the hour or half hour. The other 30 minutes would be a qualify session. So 9:00 Race - 9:30 qualify.
3. Endurance - 55 minute race every hour with forced pitstop and full points.
4. Qualification - Your start position on any of the race types will be decided by the time set in the Qualification session for that particular week. To do this, you will need to go to the race server and set a time when the qualy session starts, so every 1/2 hour. This will encourage everyone to join the race server, probably making it alot more popular than it would otherwise be.
Racing License
For this we could go with the iRacing type system. I would prefer this as it is clear what you can drive. So the classes would be Rookie, D class, C class, B class and A class. Depending on your license level will dictate what car you can drive. Your license level when you first join the system will be based on your LFS experience index, but from then on will be affected only by your safety rating. So if you have no experience you will be a rookie with a SR of 3.5, whereas an experienced driver might start with Class A 3.5.
Promotions and demotions will be at the end of the week. If your Class A and your safety rating drops below 3, you will drop to Class B at the end of the week.
Car Classes
The system would be run on a single class system, i.e. no multiclass racing (at least for now). Each Car would have it's class, like XFG, XRG (GTI), UFR, XFR (GTL) and FZR, FXR, XRR (GTR), plus some usual restricted versions of the cars (GT2, GTJ). Also, each class would have a license level required to drive it, so GTi would be rookie and GTR Class A.
Rookie Cars - UF1, XFG, XRG, FBM
Class D - FOX, TBO
Class C - MRT, LRF
Class B - FO8, GT2
Class A - BF1, GTR
© Racing System
Co-op Racing System - About 1.5 years ago, I spent a few hours talking to eq-worry about an idea for a collaboration of server owners to produce a ctra style system of multiple servers, all linked together. Worry has just posted about it on the LFS forum here - http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1561725
I also thought about bringing in an iRacing style format to the system. I think this would bring some much needed freshness to LFS public racing and if we can pull it off I think it could really be a great environment to race in. Think of iRacing but you own all the content and the community runs the system.
I will outline some of my ideas below.
© Racing System
System Integration
The Co-operative Racing System will consist of a farm of LFS servers, added by teams or server admins to the master database. All the servers will have their airio config controlled by the server, and the stats files from the server can be freely downloaded and used on external sites.
It would work like this - You would go to the co-op site and click on the admin link. This would then bring up a form where you would select from a dropdown box various choices, like Car Class and Race Length. You would then enter your servers ip address, insim port and admin password. The system would then check if it had an airio instance on that local machine. If it had, it would add your connection details and config to the airio and connect it. If not, it would use an external airio instance (not sure if this is practical yet).
This would mean the main database has full access to all the config and sta files for propagation across the whole system. The server admins then need not do anything else except keep an eye on their server, populate and police it if they want it to be popular.
Race Scheduling
Races would be scheduled by airio according to the race type. For now I would like to see 3 different versions of races and a qualification session.
1. Sprint races - 12 minute races every 15 minutes with no points awarded but SR does count. So races would start 9:00, 9:15, 9:30 etc
These races would not be the main part of the system, but would allow server owners to be part of the system and offer races in between the other sessions.
2. Race - 25 minute race with 1/2 points, starting either on the hour or half hour. The other 30 minutes would be a qualify session. So 9:00 Race - 9:30 qualify.
3. Endurance - 55 minute race every hour with forced pitstop and full points.
4. Qualification - Your start position on any of the race types will be decided by the time set in the Qualification session for that particular week. To do this, you will need to go to the race server and set a time when the qualy session starts, so every 1/2 hour. This will encourage everyone to join the race server, probably making it alot more popular than it would otherwise be.
Racing License
For this we could go with the iRacing type system. I would prefer this as it is clear what you can drive. So the classes would be Rookie, D class, C class, B class and A class. Depending on your license level will dictate what car you can drive. Your license level when you first join the system will be based on your LFS experience index, but from then on will be affected only by your safety rating. So if you have no experience you will be a rookie with a SR of 3.5, whereas an experienced driver might start with Class A 3.5.
Promotions and demotions will be at the end of the week. If your Class A and your safety rating drops below 3, you will drop to Class B at the end of the week.
Car Classes
The system would be run on a single class system, i.e. no multiclass racing (at least for now). Each Car would have it's class, like XFG, XRG (GTI), UFR, XFR (GTL) and FZR, FXR, XRR (GTR), plus some usual restricted versions of the cars (GT2, GTJ). Also, each class would have a license level required to drive it, so GTi would be rookie and GTR Class A.
Rookie Cars - UF1, XFG, XRG, FBM
Class D - FOX, TBO
Class C - MRT, LRF
Class B - FO8, GT2
Class A - BF1, GTR
I like this idea Turkey 
, we've talked about something similar with EQ too..but with the crisis we have on lfs atm it is probably better to concentrate on one server and do what ever the community likes...and it is not really the pick up racing EQ was talking about I think.
That said, once s3 finally comes out, I'll be in for this...we would need to have all the servers in the same data centre at least, running airio remotely is not a good idea and multiple airio would not make it any easier to manage...
, we've talked about something similar with EQ too..but with the crisis we have on lfs atm it is probably better to concentrate on one server and do what ever the community likes...and it is not really the pick up racing EQ was talking about I think.That said, once s3 finally comes out, I'll be in for this...we would need to have all the servers in the same data centre at least, running airio remotely is not a good idea and multiple airio would not make it any easier to manage...
Nice idea Jason.
I think one thing to consider is to limit the number of co-op servers though, otherwise you may continue to have what exists now: 15 to 20 servers with Just a handful of people.
Its been said before, there's plenty of people still on LFS, they're just spread out too much.
Its time to bring them together.
I think one thing to consider is to limit the number of co-op servers though, otherwise you may continue to have what exists now: 15 to 20 servers with Just a handful of people.
Its been said before, there's plenty of people still on LFS, they're just spread out too much.
Its time to bring them together.
This I'm afraid is a bit of a rant 
iRacing style ratings don't work. That is a fact. Also, while you're at it could you make a rank system that works? Why can't I have a go in a gt2 car despite having driven a 100 k online? Is that not enough? What is?
So what was originally a pretty good idea is shaping up to be something quite awful. Concentrate on the systems that worked in the past, don't try and shape this into iracing!
iRacing style ratings don't work. That is a fact. Also, while you're at it could you make a rank system that works? Why can't I have a go in a gt2 car despite having driven a 100 k online? Is that not enough? What is?
So what was originally a pretty good idea is shaping up to be something quite awful. Concentrate on the systems that worked in the past, don't try and shape this into iracing!
It's a very interesting idea. My biggest concert with the Cargame servers is that the races are so short. And the GT grid is usally very small, even on a full S2 server. The few times the GT grid is big, it only lasts a couple of racers before the connection limit Dave put in kicks in, disabling GT2 when connections > 38.
However, if safety rating is the basis for licenses in this new system, I think Airio (or what tracker there will be to monitor the races) needs an overhaul on the safety rating system.
For instance, if there is an crash up ahead and you slow down not be part of it, you still cause a yellow flag and rating is dropped. If you're worried about your safety rating, it's statistically better to do the very opposite; floor the pedal and hope for the best.
However, if safety rating is the basis for licenses in this new system, I think Airio (or what tracker there will be to monitor the races) needs an overhaul on the safety rating system.
For instance, if there is an crash up ahead and you slow down not be part of it, you still cause a yellow flag and rating is dropped. If you're worried about your safety rating, it's statistically better to do the very opposite; floor the pedal and hope for the best.
I don't get you?? If you read my post, it clearly states that your license level will be based on your LFS experience when you first join the system, so if you had 100kms online, you could drive any car you want.
And the iRacing style ratings don't work? You mean the SR bit? If so, it is exactly the same as what cargame does, all it would mean is converting the percentage to a license level.
I totally agree. At first it would make sense to only have 1 or two servers setup, but as time goes on bring more servers into the system.
The main point is, if we are going to bring in a co-operative system that uses any kind of ranking system, it should be thought out at the beginning for the long term, so the system can be expanded into the future without resetting your stats etc. For this, we would need at least to agree on a points system, SR system and anything else that would have an effect on your long term status.
I agree with this. Furthermore IIRC it rates you based on yellows/laps, and AS5 is much longer than AS1
First, please lets stick to the point, this all is about possible one server managed and used cooperatively by several teams with the hope to create something more acceptable for hardcore drivers while keeping the interest of the general LFS public. Using server farms and "globalizing" some Airio data/stats is something completely else.
The rank... Of course you can have GT2s, if admins choose to configure Airio that way. One of my ideas for this proposed multi-team server is to make cars available purely on safety rating, nothing else. And your initial rating would be set very high, if you have years of LFS experience. Then you may still improve it, but also lose it of course. If the original idea you mention is that one server, I still hope it will be the primary topic of this thread, while there may be other threads about the iRacing options.
The rank... Of course you can have GT2s, if admins choose to configure Airio that way. One of my ideas for this proposed multi-team server is to make cars available purely on safety rating, nothing else. And your initial rating would be set very high, if you have years of LFS experience. Then you may still improve it, but also lose it of course. If the original idea you mention is that one server, I still hope it will be the primary topic of this thread, while there may be other threads about the iRacing options.
Okay, an honest mistake by my side. Don't call the classes A-D since airio also gives you a rank in that area. Or something like that.
And yes, iracing does not work, it's a stupid system and I hate it with passion. I'll admit that the more incidents you cause the more accurate the system is but that's about it.. It's not a measure of driving skill. Nor safety.
The problem I have with airio is I never know what ranking I have/need to drive a car, and I thought it would be cool for people from iRacing to see a system that they understand instantly. If we can do it, then why not?
Also, regarding the iRacing SR system, I hate it aswell, but mainly because of the weighted values it gives incidents, meaning the higher level you are, the more it penalises you for something that wasn't your fault, which wouldn't be the case with this system. I think the system should be quite generous regarding Safety Rating, so you would have to deserve to get demoted if you had been
Also, regarding the iRacing SR system, I hate it aswell, but mainly because of the weighted values it gives incidents, meaning the higher level you are, the more it penalises you for something that wasn't your fault, which wouldn't be the case with this system. I think the system should be quite generous regarding Safety Rating, so you would have to deserve to get demoted if you had been
What I think would be cool is to have something like on cruise servers [
] where there's a list of the cars at the top and the ones you can drive are in green and the ones you can't are in red, and then something telling you what more you need to do to be able to drive those cars 
OK, good to hear!
Most people I talk to would like to have a single category server. The big problem with this is approach is that the average LFS driver who comes to race once a week or even less does not like it. He likes alternatives. And to have a successful single-class server, we would have to cooperate real close, preferring that server over our own servers with the hope that even the average drivers will soon see the virtues of true racing. Server success depends on average drivers. And when they have limited choices and see the aliens they can never beat, they just leave. More categories give options. They can choose and be in a category where they have a chance for win. Also using GTRs and allowing all to participate is impossible.
PS1: Concerning available cars, there are always options to make it clear. One is to use quite simple categorization, where safety rating level actually tells you the highest class you can use - maybe GTL Qualified and GT2 Qualified. Other option is to add Airio feature that would tell you the cars to use when it spectates you for insufficient something...
PS2: The SR system works reasonably well, in fact much better than I hoped when implementing it. You need to see that Airio has relatively limited set of data to base its decisions on. But again, any reasonable additions and improvements are possible, such as making it track-length dependant, which is a very good idea and easily implementable as well.
Most people I talk to would like to have a single category server. The big problem with this is approach is that the average LFS driver who comes to race once a week or even less does not like it. He likes alternatives. And to have a successful single-class server, we would have to cooperate real close, preferring that server over our own servers with the hope that even the average drivers will soon see the virtues of true racing. Server success depends on average drivers. And when they have limited choices and see the aliens they can never beat, they just leave. More categories give options. They can choose and be in a category where they have a chance for win. Also using GTRs and allowing all to participate is impossible.
PS1: Concerning available cars, there are always options to make it clear. One is to use quite simple categorization, where safety rating level actually tells you the highest class you can use - maybe GTL Qualified and GT2 Qualified. Other option is to add Airio feature that would tell you the cars to use when it spectates you for insufficient something...
PS2: The SR system works reasonably well, in fact much better than I hoped when implementing it. You need to see that Airio has relatively limited set of data to base its decisions on. But again, any reasonable additions and improvements are possible, such as making it track-length dependant, which is a very good idea and easily implementable as well.
What ever we do I think we should keep it different enough to CG, I don't see the point in competing with something that works well. I agree with EQ that it can not be a hardcore server, but it should have a minimum of racing spirit.
As everyone knows it is hard enough to keep harmony in check for one team, so I think the main experiment here is to see if we can get closer to each others and have fun doing it...the all community would only profit from it!
So I say let's start with one server and lets see where this adventure takes us...s3 is coming for Christmas after all (here goes my optimist side again 
)
As everyone knows it is hard enough to keep harmony in check for one team, so I think the main experiment here is to see if we can get closer to each others and have fun doing it...the all community would only profit from it!
So I say let's start with one server and lets see where this adventure takes us...s3 is coming for Christmas after all
(here goes my optimist side again )Multi-class servers are nothing but an advertisement strategy!
You only ever race with the people within your class (unless some try lawn mowing with faster cars) - but most people select a nearly full server if available.
So if you have an optimistic 20 people on the server equally spread between 5 classes, you will struggle to find close fights...
What about 2 rotating sets of classes (ex: 2 classes road like XFG/XRG + TBO, 2 classes GT like NGT or GT2 + GTR) , like CTRA tried for some time if I remember correctly?
It seems that we are discussing quality racing on a populated server here, and I do not see how spreading the userbase between 5 classes on 1 server will provide that.
Thanks EQWorry for bringing that idea up, and team leaders for all the positive answers. It makes me feel there is still some life in LFS
You only ever race with the people within your class (unless some try lawn mowing with faster cars) - but most people select a nearly full server if available.
So if you have an optimistic 20 people on the server equally spread between 5 classes, you will struggle to find close fights...
What about 2 rotating sets of classes (ex: 2 classes road like XFG/XRG + TBO, 2 classes GT like NGT or GT2 + GTR) , like CTRA tried for some time if I remember correctly?
It seems that we are discussing quality racing on a populated server here, and I do not see how spreading the userbase between 5 classes on 1 server will provide that.
Thanks EQWorry for bringing that idea up, and team leaders for all the positive answers. It makes me feel there is still some life in LFS
This sounds good.
If you look on CG the most popular cars are the TBOs and GT2s. STDs would be popular if people had to drive them at the start, so add them into it too.
OK, I'm glad we're back on track, at least what concerns the topic here! 
I see there is some real interest in trying out this cooperation project, at least what concerns the for now somewhat vague ideas.
Two car categories, changed by rotations? Why not! If it will attract you experienced people from various teams and your mates, what else can we ask? But we should be ready for changes (like extending the available categories) in case things go stale and get a downward trend (that is if we ever get it somewhere up).
I see there is some real interest in trying out this cooperation project, at least what concerns the for now somewhat vague ideas.Two car categories, changed by rotations? Why not! If it will attract you experienced people from various teams and your mates, what else can we ask? But we should be ready for changes (like extending the available categories) in case things go stale and get a downward trend (that is if we ever get it somewhere up).
Too bad we couldn't kidnap the UKCT team and force them to hand over the X-system.
me thinks it could be time for a little survey. look at the info that was gathered on the GPU memory thread. it could be a valuable source for you guys.
you could ask if we'd prefer X amount of classes per server/race you could also ask for fav combos. this could help you when deciding race locations. what if each driver were to submit a combo they preferred and the server/system would email them when the server is on their preferred combo. i've found that a lot of drivers would spectate on a server and wait til a combo they like is loaded. this isn't too bad but it does take up a server slot that could be used by a driver who wants to race.
i'm glad i've subbed this thread. i like where it's going.
you could ask if we'd prefer X amount of classes per server/race you could also ask for fav combos. this could help you when deciding race locations. what if each driver were to submit a combo they preferred and the server/system would email them when the server is on their preferred combo. i've found that a lot of drivers would spectate on a server and wait til a combo they like is loaded. this isn't too bad but it does take up a server slot that could be used by a driver who wants to race.
i'm glad i've subbed this thread. i like where it's going.
Absolutely, this is why things come and then eventually die out [eg IHR, CD e.t.c.]
Indeed, CG's continuous success is possible because Dave takes extreme care of his servers, adjusting endlessly things that do not work quite well. That would also have to happen with this proposed multi-team meeting ground/server.
Proposal for a multi-team open GT racing server
(138 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG