But in nfs i could take that corner at 200mph+ with nitros....
I can assure you, that is not currently the case. LXs aside, the cars are all way too stiff for starters.
Your much loved 'Road Going' sets will atteset to that. 
Taking into account the fact that Tristan races single seaters (and does a decent job of it, to boot!) I'd trust his evaluation.
I've met Formula Ford drivers who'd say the same thing about rFactor, and I've heard drivers say the same thing about iRacing. There's inevitably people who would say the same thing about NetKar and Richard Burns Rally aswell. There's no point in going into the "he's a racing driver, so he obviously knows best" thing, because we could be here all day going through driver after driver, and not get anywhere.
I don't have the money or the means to do any kind of sports driving. I'm not the best person to be judging how realistic they are. The closest thing I've ever done to drive fast is 50mph on a derestricted road while I was learning to drive. I immediately stopped because my mum in the passenger seat went berserk.
However because I've never had a lot of money to burn, I've got a lot of experience in comparing competing products. So I can say this with some confidence; To say one is horrible in every way while the other was hand crafted by Jesus while a bunch of strippers danced around him is just stupid.
Firefox isn't better than Chrome in every way. It's not that simple.
Windows isn't better than Linux in every way. It's not that simple.
Xbox 360 isn't better than PS3 in every way. It's not that simple.
Top Gear isn't better than Fifth Gear in every way. It's not that simple.
McDonalds isn't better than Burger King in every way. It's not that simple.
And finally, LFS isn't better than rFactor in every way. Nor iRacing, nor NetKar, nor any other simulation you can think of. It's not that simple. It's never that simple.
One of the biggest turn offs of LFS for me have been the fanboys here. People are so keen on looking down their noses at anyone who even does so much as mention another game around here, it's pathetic.
Sorry if this isn't 100% directed at you, it's just something which I've found incredibly annoying since I bought S2. It's a problem with everything else too, and it's just sad. There's no other way to put it.
I don't have the money or the means to do any kind of sports driving. I'm not the best person to be judging how realistic they are. The closest thing I've ever done to drive fast is 50mph on a derestricted road while I was learning to drive. I immediately stopped because my mum in the passenger seat went berserk.
However because I've never had a lot of money to burn, I've got a lot of experience in comparing competing products. So I can say this with some confidence; To say one is horrible in every way while the other was hand crafted by Jesus while a bunch of strippers danced around him is just stupid.
Firefox isn't better than Chrome in every way. It's not that simple.
Windows isn't better than Linux in every way. It's not that simple.
Xbox 360 isn't better than PS3 in every way. It's not that simple.
Top Gear isn't better than Fifth Gear in every way. It's not that simple.
McDonalds isn't better than Burger King in every way. It's not that simple.
And finally, LFS isn't better than rFactor in every way. Nor iRacing, nor NetKar, nor any other simulation you can think of. It's not that simple. It's never that simple.
One of the biggest turn offs of LFS for me have been the fanboys here. People are so keen on looking down their noses at anyone who even does so much as mention another game around here, it's pathetic.
Sorry if this isn't 100% directed at you, it's just something which I've found incredibly annoying since I bought S2. It's a problem with everything else too, and it's just sad. There's no other way to put it.
No, LFS isn't better than rFactor in every way. But in terms of physics, as in the driving experience, the feel, the reactions to inputs, and the way cars respond to setup changes, rFactor doesn't come close. I'm not saying that LFS is unbeatable, or even the best at any of those things either, but it IS better than rFactor. Plain and simple.
Does rFactor have better graphics? Hmmm, personally I don't think so overall, but that's a matter of opinion.
Does rFactor have better features? Yes, it has breakable bodies, day/night cycles, better lighting. It has mod support too, which is a good or bad thing depending on whether you like lots of content or decent content (the two seem to be mutually exclusive to me).
And I maintain, as I own rFactor and play it fairly regularly to get an idea of new tracks (though of course no sim can teach you how to drive a real track - at least not outside of F1 (and several of those use rFactor Pro, which is basically rFactor where you can replace any aspect of the sim to make it decent, so it has nothing in common, in the end, with rFactor Normal)), and have played it online and offline, that the best thing about it is the brake squeal noise.
Does rFactor have better graphics? Hmmm, personally I don't think so overall, but that's a matter of opinion.
Does rFactor have better features? Yes, it has breakable bodies, day/night cycles, better lighting. It has mod support too, which is a good or bad thing depending on whether you like lots of content or decent content (the two seem to be mutually exclusive to me).
And I maintain, as I own rFactor and play it fairly regularly to get an idea of new tracks (though of course no sim can teach you how to drive a real track - at least not outside of F1 (and several of those use rFactor Pro, which is basically rFactor where you can replace any aspect of the sim to make it decent, so it has nothing in common, in the end, with rFactor Normal)), and have played it online and offline, that the best thing about it is the brake squeal noise.
One of the things I've always preferred about rFactor is that it's more complicated. I love having the challenge of managing the engine, making sure the brakes don't overheat, etc. in rFactor, just because it makes the whole thing more challanging. Especially in endurance racing, where you have to nurse your car through the race to make sure you don't break down.
And for graphics, it all depends on whose hands the game engine is in. If you take a look at Dear Esther, that looks beautiful compared to Half Life 2. I presume the same applies to the graphics engines in rFactor and LFS; in the right hands, capable of some great things.
And since you seem more familiar with LFS than me, I've got to ask. The 'soft' feeling the steering has compared to everything else. Is that one of those realistic things I just have to get used to? Or have I got something configured wrong on my end?
And for graphics, it all depends on whose hands the game engine is in. If you take a look at Dear Esther, that looks beautiful compared to Half Life 2. I presume the same applies to the graphics engines in rFactor and LFS; in the right hands, capable of some great things.
And since you seem more familiar with LFS than me, I've got to ask. The 'soft' feeling the steering has compared to everything else. Is that one of those realistic things I just have to get used to? Or have I got something configured wrong on my end?
But the managing of engine and brake temps is very simplistic and often exaggerated. Plus of course, most cars in rFactor wouldn't have access to any data in car other than oil pressure and water temperature, neither of which can really be 'managed' after the engine has been built.
Yes, agree on the graphics. Special people can do special things with normal resources.
I don't know what you mean about soft. The main issue LFS has is the smooth circuits, and I can't deny that sims with bumpy track models are better in this regard. But in terms of how the steering seems to weight up, it's pretty good. Cars, even full on racing cars, don't bite. LFS is the only sim that I've really been able to feel what the car is doing through the steering alone - when I used to play regularly (as in every night), I could feel the tyre sidewalls moving on the outside rear corner, so I could very accurately assess available grip and hence be quick. I've never had that in rFactor, iRacing or nKP, but I haven't played any of them to the same extent that I used to play LFS.
Yes, agree on the graphics. Special people can do special things with normal resources.
I don't know what you mean about soft. The main issue LFS has is the smooth circuits, and I can't deny that sims with bumpy track models are better in this regard. But in terms of how the steering seems to weight up, it's pretty good. Cars, even full on racing cars, don't bite. LFS is the only sim that I've really been able to feel what the car is doing through the steering alone - when I used to play regularly (as in every night), I could feel the tyre sidewalls moving on the outside rear corner, so I could very accurately assess available grip and hence be quick. I've never had that in rFactor, iRacing or nKP, but I haven't played any of them to the same extent that I used to play LFS.
You do get radiator openings and boost mapping control. I have no idea how realistic that is, but that all plays a role in nursing your engine through the race.
By soft, I mean in rFactor or Race, you can feel the steering forces kick in immediately at the slightest movement of the steering wheel. Even if it's not very strong. Whereas in LFS, the steering forces seem to closer resemble a rising curve (imagine X is lateral acceleration, and Y is force at the steering column). So you get very little at small steering angles, then the force grows much more as you turn harder.
Is this a consequence of the tire simulation? IE the tires in other games are far stiffer, whereas in LFS the tires can absorb this steering force just by leaning on the sidewalls?
By soft, I mean in rFactor or Race, you can feel the steering forces kick in immediately at the slightest movement of the steering wheel. Even if it's not very strong. Whereas in LFS, the steering forces seem to closer resemble a rising curve (imagine X is lateral acceleration, and Y is force at the steering column). So you get very little at small steering angles, then the force grows much more as you turn harder.
Is this a consequence of the tire simulation? IE the tires in other games are far stiffer, whereas in LFS the tires can absorb this steering force just by leaning on the sidewalls?
Both are realistic, and I suppose boost mapping control would be realistic, but the former isn't so much management as adding some in practice until the temps are stable, and then leaving it alone.
Could well be. LFS does simulate the tyre forces and steering column torques to generate FFB, where as rFactor doesn't. I don't consider Race to be a sim, so I've never played it. LFS does seem to have very soft sidewalls (hopefully the new tyre physics will change that), but also smooth tracks and smoothish kerbs, so there is little to kick back from.
Could well be. LFS does simulate the tyre forces and steering column torques to generate FFB, where as rFactor doesn't. I don't consider Race to be a sim, so I've never played it. LFS does seem to have very soft sidewalls (hopefully the new tyre physics will change that), but also smooth tracks and smoothish kerbs, so there is little to kick back from.
I always assumed the boost mapping was just a hack job for fuel mixture changes. IE rather than simulate what goes on when the mixture changes, just add 5% more power per boost mapping setting, 5% more heat, 5% more fuel consumption, etc. Or whatever the exact numbers are. But as long as it's just a recreational thing for you, like it is for me, that doesn't really matter.
I recall hearing that the RealFeel plugin for rFactor does away with those synthesized steering effects, and replaces them all with the forces at the steering column. But my understanding of rFactor's game engine isn't comprehensive enough to confirm that.
I guess that would explain why the force feedback in LFS always felt quite detached to me. It used to frustrate me that I didn't feel the steering shake when I went over the kerbs, or how it would feel like the steering wasn't doing anything during small corrections. In that case, I'll join you in hoping the new tire model addresses that.
Although there is one thing I love about the physics in LFS; the bugs. Call me childish, but I think it's hilarious to drive into a barrier at 2mph then go flying through the air. It seems that the physics in LFS can remain entertaining even when it all goes hideously wrong.
I recall hearing that the RealFeel plugin for rFactor does away with those synthesized steering effects, and replaces them all with the forces at the steering column. But my understanding of rFactor's game engine isn't comprehensive enough to confirm that.
I guess that would explain why the force feedback in LFS always felt quite detached to me. It used to frustrate me that I didn't feel the steering shake when I went over the kerbs, or how it would feel like the steering wasn't doing anything during small corrections. In that case, I'll join you in hoping the new tire model addresses that.
Although there is one thing I love about the physics in LFS; the bugs. Call me childish, but I think it's hilarious to drive into a barrier at 2mph then go flying through the air. It seems that the physics in LFS can remain entertaining even when it all goes hideously wrong.
This is the point where Scipy comes in and tells us how hilarious the slip angles (or physics in general) are in rTractor
Yeah, but slightly inaccurate slip angles aren't anywhere near as funny as flying cars. :P
You can adjust the linearity of the FF curve in the Windows controller profile. Values slightly over 100% help stiffen the feel around the center (e.g. 105-110%). Lower the FF strength in LFS slightly to compensate. With my G25, I typically use around 105% in Windows and 25% in LFS, plus or minus 5% depending on the car and how much caster my setup has (usually maximum caster).
Also, do you have all of the spring and damping effects in the Windows controller profile turned down to 0%? Everything should be 0% except the overall force.
Also, do you have all of the spring and damping effects in the Windows controller profile turned down to 0%? Everything should be 0% except the overall force.
I'm using a G25 aswell. Overall is at 100% at all times apart from in LFS, when I have it set to 105%. Damping and spring are at 0% regardless of what I'm doing.
Where can I adjust the FF curve? I've never heard of being able to do such a thing before.
Where can I adjust the FF curve? I've never heard of being able to do such a thing before.
FF curve adjustment is through the use of the overall force slider in the Windows controller options. Values greater than 100% result in an overall increase in force, but that increase is greater at the center than the extremes. Or at least so the theory goes.
Maybe try jacking it up to 120% and see how it feels for you then. As always, adjust the LFS FF setting accordingly.
I suggest the OP go to a race track, or a closed road with a properly equipped car, for safety, and push a vehicle to its limits. It may surprise you just how easy it is to oversteer a RWD car that has a shady live axle and half as5 limited slip.
You're never gonna find a vehicle or setup that will take 'any' corner at "40/50mph" without sliding, that is if you're really trying to. Be it understeer or oversteer, it's just easy to do.
You would need an extremely light, awkward shaped short wheel base type of small car with huge wheels and racing slick tires at perfect temps, ...already sounds cartoony.
You're never gonna find a vehicle or setup that will take 'any' corner at "40/50mph" without sliding, that is if you're really trying to. Be it understeer or oversteer, it's just easy to do.
You would need an extremely light, awkward shaped short wheel base type of small car with huge wheels and racing slick tires at perfect temps, ...already sounds cartoony.
Cheers for the tip on G25 feedback, the game feels a lot better now.
lol so many posts i wanted to respond to kind of aggressively for downtalking physics when the person has clearly no idea, but the beauty of lfs ive always loved is there r more real drivers ;P i didnt even have to say anything coz its already been said hehe
for the ppl that dont drive in real: your answer on lfs physics being "real" just look how many real world drivers play this and love it.. the lfs team has done a fantastic job with this game , well sim actually it deserves that title trully unlike certain others that claim it but all talk like coughnfsshiftcough. no its not perfect but for one, the game isnt finished, 2 NOTHING in this life is PERFECT, perfection is an illusion much like control 100% of either simply dont exist. but for a "game" lfs is one of the few that r trully close to how cars behave in real life, the fact u can road race AND drift on the same tires, with the same setup and inputs on throttle and wheel exactly how its done in real.. need i say more? there r many factors missing of course like number 1 being able to feel what the car is doing in every way (but u can feel half of it with FFB), g force, brain suction i like to call it ;P and the general feeling on ur body and mind being inside a small cockpit being propelled at intense speeds, theres something called imagination that can surpass the lack of g forces tho, if uve felt it in real, u can see the same forces in the car that ur used to in real life, but u just cant feel them, but driving in real life enables to have muscle memory of what the forces that u can only see in lfs feel like.
i just also thought about posts regarding how real the speed looks, like others said, if u mess with the g force/FOV etc meters.. u will get the sense of speed, lfs does it pretty good actually, needs more wind, but its good 200 km actually looks like 200 km and even the way the car handles.. have u ever made a turn more than 20 degrees in a real car at 200 km? specially if ur jerky.. guess what happens? just watch police chase videos, lots of ppl show examples of what happens if u dont give the car what it wants and rather take what U want from it...
last but not least.. a lot of video games nowadays r very "bling bling".. but.. thats ALL they r, they have no personality at all.. live for speed is one of the few games that have all personality intact, graphics r good for a simulation, true sims usually have worse graphics! but in the end, lfs has got it where it counts, much like ppl u find someone ur soul is bounded to right from first meet, and u trully from within dont need anyone else more than a friend coz they r ur true love for real, b4 sex.... but sadly most ppl in todays world go entirely on that "bling bling" and realize years later when it should be too late "oh.. i dont like this persons personality" but uve already had 2 kids and married them coz u thought they were so hot and amazing on the outside... u cant drive a real car from the outside of it.. and the ppl that dont understand, should look deeper into live for speed b4 jumping in the sack with it and judging it.
oh and just to put this out there, there is a mod for rfactor which transforms it into a raw simulation "Historic GT & touring car mod" the feedback is amazing, the sounds r spoton, and most important, each car has its real world handling physics example the 65 mustang loves to go "straight" wont go into detail about what it means really, but this mod has those exact physics of its real world counterpart, just one example, to the ppl that love older cars or just love to drive in general, check this mod out, if this mod didnt exist, i wouldnt have rfactor installed at all...
for the ppl that dont drive in real: your answer on lfs physics being "real" just look how many real world drivers play this and love it.. the lfs team has done a fantastic job with this game , well sim actually it deserves that title trully unlike certain others that claim it but all talk like coughnfsshiftcough. no its not perfect but for one, the game isnt finished, 2 NOTHING in this life is PERFECT, perfection is an illusion much like control 100% of either simply dont exist. but for a "game" lfs is one of the few that r trully close to how cars behave in real life, the fact u can road race AND drift on the same tires, with the same setup and inputs on throttle and wheel exactly how its done in real.. need i say more? there r many factors missing of course like number 1 being able to feel what the car is doing in every way (but u can feel half of it with FFB), g force, brain suction i like to call it ;P and the general feeling on ur body and mind being inside a small cockpit being propelled at intense speeds, theres something called imagination that can surpass the lack of g forces tho, if uve felt it in real, u can see the same forces in the car that ur used to in real life, but u just cant feel them, but driving in real life enables to have muscle memory of what the forces that u can only see in lfs feel like.
i just also thought about posts regarding how real the speed looks, like others said, if u mess with the g force/FOV etc meters.. u will get the sense of speed, lfs does it pretty good actually, needs more wind, but its good 200 km actually looks like 200 km and even the way the car handles.. have u ever made a turn more than 20 degrees in a real car at 200 km? specially if ur jerky.. guess what happens? just watch police chase videos, lots of ppl show examples of what happens if u dont give the car what it wants and rather take what U want from it...
last but not least.. a lot of video games nowadays r very "bling bling".. but.. thats ALL they r, they have no personality at all.. live for speed is one of the few games that have all personality intact, graphics r good for a simulation, true sims usually have worse graphics! but in the end, lfs has got it where it counts, much like ppl u find someone ur soul is bounded to right from first meet, and u trully from within dont need anyone else more than a friend coz they r ur true love for real, b4 sex.... but sadly most ppl in todays world go entirely on that "bling bling" and realize years later when it should be too late "oh.. i dont like this persons personality" but uve already had 2 kids and married them coz u thought they were so hot and amazing on the outside... u cant drive a real car from the outside of it.. and the ppl that dont understand, should look deeper into live for speed b4 jumping in the sack with it and judging it.
oh and just to put this out there, there is a mod for rfactor which transforms it into a raw simulation "Historic GT & touring car mod" the feedback is amazing, the sounds r spoton, and most important, each car has its real world handling physics example the 65 mustang loves to go "straight" wont go into detail about what it means really, but this mod has those exact physics of its real world counterpart, just one example, to the ppl that love older cars or just love to drive in general, check this mod out, if this mod didnt exist, i wouldnt have rfactor installed at all...
Would just like to take you up on one point you made; that LFS has a sense of personality.
It doesn't. You cannot customise anything to do with the cars, all you can do is skin them. Forza 3 has a sense of personality because you can PERSONALISE your vehicle. But anyway everything else is fair enough so..
It doesn't. You cannot customise anything to do with the cars, all you can do is skin them. Forza 3 has a sense of personality because you can PERSONALISE your vehicle. But anyway everything else is fair enough so..
true.. =)
That's not what he meant by personality. Forza 3 is a soul-less game. You feel like you're playing a computer programme. LFS feels like it was made by people for people like you. It has bugs, but often as not they're endearing rather than play-stopping. I don't know how else to describe it.
But being able to chav up your car and claim that that's personality is a bit daft.
I think he meant charm. LFS is charming. And I agree with him. 
lol... personality is not the same as personalize... personalize is.. material, which gives a good example of what i mean about how ppl r these days...
i enjoy live for speed coz it simulates very well saloon cars.. my favorite, and u can play with them in so many ways with any setup.. very similar to the things u can do in a real car even factory.. im not rich so lfs saves me when i have times i cant be inside of a car, few sims that r on the line of real world behaviour.. and lfs is charming as well
i enjoy live for speed coz it simulates very well saloon cars.. my favorite, and u can play with them in so many ways with any setup.. very similar to the things u can do in a real car even factory.. im not rich so lfs saves me when i have times i cant be inside of a car, few sims that r on the line of real world behaviour.. and lfs is charming as well
It all depends on what you want out of a racing sim.
LFS is more personal to the user, however in terms of being able to PERSONALISE your sim racing experience, I think Forza 3 can provide that to a higher level than LFS.By the way, I had an interview from a guy the other week who looked suspiciously like you.
Fed up of poor car handling
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