There are jokes in there? Damn, I was sat here agreeing with every point.
There are jokes in there? Damn, I was sat here agreeing with every point.
I wish this was on my road test. I'd be going back every other week to try to beat my best time.
It's a load of crap.
Firstly, force us to learn for a year before passing our tests? Why? I had 4 lessons, each one at least a fortnight inbetween - (technically 5 but in the first one I was just driven round by a really grumpy old man being told that this knob does that and this one does that, which I already bloody knew) and I passed my test first time, with 3 "faults" (I got shouted at by another grumpy man when I called them minors)
Who is teaching you to drive shouldn't matter one bit. Some people are more comfortable with friends/family and why should some old man in a wig dictate who teaches who? And often due to the high costs of tution it makes sense for someone who is nervous to be in an evironment they feel comfortable in.
Being "supervised" is a load of crap as well. What if you live by yourself or share a flat with a friend(s), as alot of young people do - They'd need someone to basically babysit them, being unable to drive places as and when they choose.
Many young people also work shifts, being the lackies who do the hours no-one else wants to do, the introduction of the bollocks "Oh you can only drive at peak times where there is the most traffic on the roads" would also stop them doing that.
Also on banning driving at night time? Why? Because the roads are quiter, young peoples eyesight is naturally (just a fact of human life) better than someone in their mid 40's, and young people are less likely to be tired as they tend to have higher energy levels and remain more alert for longer. Yeah, makes perfect sense.
As for motorways, **** off. Motorways are the safest roads on our network. Generally if there is a crash, then it tends to be a little more serious, but they are much more rare than around town or on A-Roads. The first time I was on the motorway I was fine, I was confident, kept to around 75mph, didn't sit in the middle lane for mile after mile..
And why restrict engine sizes? Under what parameters will these be set? For example a 1.3 Toyota Starlet which can easily produce 150bhp or more? Or a 2.0 SDI VW which has under 100. You can drive a very powerful car in a very safe manner, just as you can drive a very slow car in a very unsafe manner. Regardless of the size of the engine, if you drive too fast for the conditions you're bound to crash sooner or later.
I'm indifferent about the retests. I drive in a way that's comfortable for me. (as in one handed steering most of the time, cruising with my arm on the door). When the road is clear I may use both the "turning left" and the "straight ahead" lane at a roundabout to straight line it, I use engine braking alot, and I do not shuffle the wheel or check my mirror every 10 seconds and every time I brake.
By forcing people to retest you are forcing them to pass a test which has such a low level it's remarkable. Well, I should rephrase. The test itself is fine however the fact you are FORCED to drive in a certain way is not good.
I fear I would fail my test if I drove how I normally do, not because I'm dangerous, or fast, or unable to keep road position - but because I do not shuffle the wheel, or - more generally - drive like a learner.
Also what happens if you have been on the road on a motorcycle or moped for months/years previously? Still have to only be allowed out between 9-5 and when it's not raining????
I understand there are some bad drivers (and this applies to both young AND old). There are some people who are so nervous they shouldn't be behind the wheel, some people who go so slowly thinking it's safe that they should be hit up their ass with a wrecking ball.
But I also know that there are some people (not wishing to sound like a cocky ****) like me who are just more natural at driving than others and have a sort of ability to grasp driving much more quickly than others so saying all drivers are useless without x years of experience is arbitary and wrong.
Also on a similar topic, GO TRISTAN.
Firstly, force us to learn for a year before passing our tests? Why? I had 4 lessons, each one at least a fortnight inbetween - (technically 5 but in the first one I was just driven round by a really grumpy old man being told that this knob does that and this one does that, which I already bloody knew) and I passed my test first time, with 3 "faults" (I got shouted at by another grumpy man when I called them minors)
Who is teaching you to drive shouldn't matter one bit. Some people are more comfortable with friends/family and why should some old man in a wig dictate who teaches who? And often due to the high costs of tution it makes sense for someone who is nervous to be in an evironment they feel comfortable in.
Being "supervised" is a load of crap as well. What if you live by yourself or share a flat with a friend(s), as alot of young people do - They'd need someone to basically babysit them, being unable to drive places as and when they choose.
Many young people also work shifts, being the lackies who do the hours no-one else wants to do, the introduction of the bollocks "Oh you can only drive at peak times where there is the most traffic on the roads" would also stop them doing that.
Also on banning driving at night time? Why? Because the roads are quiter, young peoples eyesight is naturally (just a fact of human life) better than someone in their mid 40's, and young people are less likely to be tired as they tend to have higher energy levels and remain more alert for longer. Yeah, makes perfect sense.
As for motorways, **** off. Motorways are the safest roads on our network. Generally if there is a crash, then it tends to be a little more serious, but they are much more rare than around town or on A-Roads. The first time I was on the motorway I was fine, I was confident, kept to around 75mph, didn't sit in the middle lane for mile after mile..
And why restrict engine sizes? Under what parameters will these be set? For example a 1.3 Toyota Starlet which can easily produce 150bhp or more? Or a 2.0 SDI VW which has under 100. You can drive a very powerful car in a very safe manner, just as you can drive a very slow car in a very unsafe manner. Regardless of the size of the engine, if you drive too fast for the conditions you're bound to crash sooner or later.
I'm indifferent about the retests. I drive in a way that's comfortable for me. (as in one handed steering most of the time, cruising with my arm on the door). When the road is clear I may use both the "turning left" and the "straight ahead" lane at a roundabout to straight line it, I use engine braking alot, and I do not shuffle the wheel or check my mirror every 10 seconds and every time I brake.
By forcing people to retest you are forcing them to pass a test which has such a low level it's remarkable. Well, I should rephrase. The test itself is fine however the fact you are FORCED to drive in a certain way is not good.
I fear I would fail my test if I drove how I normally do, not because I'm dangerous, or fast, or unable to keep road position - but because I do not shuffle the wheel, or - more generally - drive like a learner.
Also what happens if you have been on the road on a motorcycle or moped for months/years previously? Still have to only be allowed out between 9-5 and when it's not raining????
I understand there are some bad drivers (and this applies to both young AND old). There are some people who are so nervous they shouldn't be behind the wheel, some people who go so slowly thinking it's safe that they should be hit up their ass with a wrecking ball.
But I also know that there are some people (not wishing to sound like a cocky ****) like me who are just more natural at driving than others and have a sort of ability to grasp driving much more quickly than others so saying all drivers are useless without x years of experience is arbitary and wrong.
Also on a similar topic, GO TRISTAN.
The main issue is young male drivers who on average are terrible.
No worse than the young females, who are more likely to text or be distracted by makeup/hair/driving in high heel shoes...
Females have more crashes, however these are mostly parking dings thus go unreported. Males have fewer crashes but since these tend to be a bit faster they tend to get picked up on much more.
Not saying all females are bad drivers, they're not - I know some perfectly fine ones but women are far more distractable then men. 75% of the people I've seen driving on the phone or while texting have been females, most of whom look under 25.
But that's just here.
Females have more crashes, however these are mostly parking dings thus go unreported. Males have fewer crashes but since these tend to be a bit faster they tend to get picked up on much more.
Not saying all females are bad drivers, they're not - I know some perfectly fine ones but women are far more distractable then men. 75% of the people I've seen driving on the phone or while texting have been females, most of whom look under 25.
But that's just here.
You have an interesting idea of what isn't dangerous.
Statistics show that young female drivers are quickly catching up. Before the new insurance laws came about so you cannot charge extra for having testicles over ovaries the insurance brokers raised the premiums of young male drivers and adults between 30 and 50 years of age to cover the extra expense of young female drivers because pushing up the premiums for all young female drivers would be unfair because of a minority of bad drivers. I've never face palmed so hard in my life.
In Virginia, when we are 15 years and 6 months old, we can go to DMV(Department of Motor Vehicles) and take a learner's permit test. It's a two part test. The first portion is a 10 question test about road signs, and you have to get a 100% or you will fail the whole test, and have to wait 2 weeks to retake it. The second portion is a 25 question general knowledge test, where you have to get 20 out of 25 correct. Once you pass that, you get your learners permit, which lets you drive with an adult(18 years if family member, 21 if not).
Once you hold your learner's permit for a certain amount of time(it was either 6 months, or 9 months, can't remember) You have to take "Behind The Wheel". Which is a course that the High Schools have. You set a time with the instructor(usually a school teacher), and you have to drive around for a full week, for an hour before, or after school. Now, you can totally **** up during the first 4 days, and nothing will happen to you, because the last day is "Driving Test Day". If you screw up on that day, you have to wait 2 weeks before attempting the whole week again. And I forgot to mention, "Behind The Wheel" costs $100, for every attempt. Now if you do pass this, he hands you your ghetto 90-day Driver's License that is a totally legitimate driver's license, but you have to have your Learner's Permit with it for it to be legal. Once you pass and get that paper copy, the school schedules a "Driver's License Ceremony" in the auditorium like every month. You show up to that all dressed up and stuff, and the judge sits there and tries to tell you all of these bullshit sentimental stories about accidents, and how safe driving is the right way to drive. And after about an hour and a half of ignoring the judge, he calls you up, one by one in order by name. You walk up to the stage, throw your Learner's Permit and paper license into this big bin, he hands you your real hard-copy license, and off you go.
All of this happens after you take the "Driver's Education" class during 10th grade of high school. Basically, it is combined with our PE class. Normally PE classes are combined with Health class, so we would go to PE for 2 weeks, and after those were up, we would go to health class for 2 weeks, rinse and repeat, all with the same teacher. But for the first half of 10th grade, you go to Driver's Education instead of Health class. You HAVE to pass this class in order to take Behind The Wheel. Now, instead of taking and passing this class in high school, you can take a private driving school class, which is expensive as hell.
TL DR; Being able to drive is annoying as shit.
Once you hold your learner's permit for a certain amount of time(it was either 6 months, or 9 months, can't remember) You have to take "Behind The Wheel". Which is a course that the High Schools have. You set a time with the instructor(usually a school teacher), and you have to drive around for a full week, for an hour before, or after school. Now, you can totally **** up during the first 4 days, and nothing will happen to you, because the last day is "Driving Test Day". If you screw up on that day, you have to wait 2 weeks before attempting the whole week again. And I forgot to mention, "Behind The Wheel" costs $100, for every attempt. Now if you do pass this, he hands you your ghetto 90-day Driver's License that is a totally legitimate driver's license, but you have to have your Learner's Permit with it for it to be legal. Once you pass and get that paper copy, the school schedules a "Driver's License Ceremony" in the auditorium like every month. You show up to that all dressed up and stuff, and the judge sits there and tries to tell you all of these bullshit sentimental stories about accidents, and how safe driving is the right way to drive. And after about an hour and a half of ignoring the judge, he calls you up, one by one in order by name. You walk up to the stage, throw your Learner's Permit and paper license into this big bin, he hands you your real hard-copy license, and off you go.
All of this happens after you take the "Driver's Education" class during 10th grade of high school. Basically, it is combined with our PE class. Normally PE classes are combined with Health class, so we would go to PE for 2 weeks, and after those were up, we would go to health class for 2 weeks, rinse and repeat, all with the same teacher. But for the first half of 10th grade, you go to Driver's Education instead of Health class. You HAVE to pass this class in order to take Behind The Wheel. Now, instead of taking and passing this class in high school, you can take a private driving school class, which is expensive as hell.
TL DR; Being able to drive is annoying as shit.
What's dangerous?
Also please go to my broken car thread and offer advice.
Why should I check my mirror every time I brake though? Because if there was a lorry right up my chuff, for example, I would not brake for the child who's run into the road? Or for the red light?
I've done advanced motorcycle courses and straight lining roundabouts and general corners well possible is actually encouraged. I'm sure the "wheel shuffling society" would disagree but it seems logical to apply the theory to a car as well.
(Jakg)
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by Jakg
If I thought all of those were not only serious, but actually a good idea, how much of a crackpot does that make me?
Although you've intentionally made that confusing to read, the US has one of the "easiest" driving tests in the developed world.
I am not a fan of one handed driving over long periods of time, relaxed grip is one thing, but one handed, you're one water filled pot hole away from losing control.
Checking the mirror in an emergency is wasted seconds, but for slowing at junctions/lights, you have plenty of time to assess how quickly you can pull up. Round here tail gating isn't uncommon, so I always check to see who is up my arse to decide if I should start braking early or race up to the line and pull on the anchors. Motorbikers are the worst for tail gating and will sit right in the centre behind my van. Now this would be fine in a car, but as I have no back windows and can lose a Range Rover back there, I have to look out for shadows to see if someone hiding.
That idea of straight lining is what gets so many bikers into trouble out here, the amount of times I've gone round a relatively bind bend (sweeping left with a blind crest in the middle) to find a guy with both wheels on the white line and trying to get a knee down coming towards me. ****ing idiots. Wheel shufflers are too far up their own arses, they are more dangerous than a youth with a heavy right foot.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/exchange.shtml
It's been like that the first time I saw it, so at least ~5 years or so, and probably longer than that. Only 9 countries can exchange their license without any hassles.
I live in Toronto and have ~30km one way to work, doubt it's better here...
I like that rule. Maybe first do some basic driving and show some rudimentary driving skills (G2 road test in Canada is quite easy) before you go to a highway, at least in Toronto, highways here are quite busy 8am-8pm.
When I was doing my road test there was a girl taking the G2 road test and she didn't even make it out of the parking space. It was hillarious tbh though I had to be polite and not laugh: she had to leave the parking space but couldn't just do it in one go, you'd have to go 2-3 times back and forth to negotiate the space. The problem was that she was moving back and forth retracing the exact same path every time. I really don't know what was she thinking: if you couldn't get out the first time, and you are at the exact same starting point doing the exact same movements, what outcome would one expect?? And she did that like ~10 times before the examiner declared it a fail.
I wouldn't want someone like that on the highway just because she passed the written test.
And on a general note, government and insurance agencies use numbers and statistics, and they are what they are: younger drivers are much more prone to accidents. So you introduce restrictions for them. Yes, you can find thousands of small reasons why they aren't fair, but is it fair that the same highway speed limit applies to a 65 yr old grandma in a 20 yr old POS that barely passed its technical and to Vettel in whatever he drives? And there are always exceptions, maybe 5% are exceptions, and 95% of the young drivers think they are in those 5%. I did too...
Well we're not talking about riding a motorcycle, just some of the roadcraft, and when you can see I don't see the problem in straight lining, whether on 2 or 4 wheels. It's an advanced technique and just because on the odd occasion some numpty does it incorrectly, everyone seems to deem it dangerous and stupid.
As for the whole "looking back while braking" thing, I guess that's each to their own but I'd rather pay attention to whats infront of me than worry overly about whether some dork is going to crash into me because I've stopped when I'm told to by traffic control. I will brake in a fairly good time so feel there is no need to check what's behind me, unless it's a particularly busy time (I.E rush hour) when I'm generally more observant anyway.
Ok I mean I don't understand how driving with one hand on the wheel is dangerous either around town or on a motorway. Basically the more "intense" the drive the more likely I'm going to have 2 hands on the wheel. But cruising to work or to McDonalds to meet up with friends, or down the motorway, 1 hand is more comfortable FOR ME and poses no additional risk, especially in a well maintainted car with properly inflated tyres with good tread depth and let's face it, unless a pothole is big enough to break something it's not going to make you magically zip off course and crash unless you're in either an original mini, Suzuki Wagon R, Daewoo/Chevrolet Matiz or a bicycle..
hm, i guess it has been some time since the graduated system has been in place... funny how time flies by.
on the other hand, canada's worst driver 5 was only a couple years ago, and the one guy actually used to drive in the middle of the road... i guess some places in india don't have line markers. how he got his license over here is a mystery.
on the topic of worst traffic in canada, word has it that toronto is the worst, but i haven't been there in years. i would consider hamilton a close second or third though... maybe i'm just less tolerant of moron drivers than people in smaller cities/towns.
Over here, you're not allowed to drive unless you have a full driver's licence. So when you turn 18, you've got to take driving lessons, pass a theory test, pass a driving test and then you can drive alone, on the highway, at night etc. etc.
However, after you've passed your driving test, you will be classified as a 'beginning driver' for a period of 5 years, which means that the legal drinking limit is lower, and you'll get points on your licence for exceeding the speed limit by at least 30km/h in town or 40km/h on the highway.
However, after you've passed your driving test, you will be classified as a 'beginning driver' for a period of 5 years, which means that the legal drinking limit is lower, and you'll get points on your licence for exceeding the speed limit by at least 30km/h in town or 40km/h on the highway.
To the one handed argument, I often drive one handed, and if I'm taking things easy, I've never had issues. I have noticed if I start driving harder, then cornering on less than smooth roads begins to cause troubles that disappear completely just by having two hands on the wheel (have tested both ways many times at one particular roundabout that has a nasty bump right in the middle). I think the change in arm positions just makes you naturally grip the wheel much more firmly.
I think knees are the only instrument for driving! :P
everyone does and particularly for people who dont drive a lot this will be true
however ive gotten into tankslappers in my mums punto twice while taking it easy and letting myself get lulled into a false sense of security from the fwd econoboxyness of it
theres always a chance for some unexpected bit of slippery road that can get you way sideways (and potentially into oncomming traffic) if you react too slowly
Other day I was going to class, and for no particular reason, I decided to try and set a record for driving with my knee(s) and using cruise control (with my fingers) to control the throttle. I went 12.6 miles on the interstate like this. Probably could have went longer, had to get off at the exit and traffic started to back up a bit too much.
Standard of driving here is just so amazing.
I have driven a solid 75 KM with only my knees. Highway. 6 AM. No traffic. 120 kmh
No I didn't intentionally make it confusing, and I never stated that it was harder than other places, I just stated that it was an annoying process. Please get off of your high horse.
The system in Estonia is unique.
First you must of course take the mandatory theory lessons (41x45min) and driving lessons (40 lessons).
For ages 16-17 there is a shorter exam (contents are the same, but less theory questions and shorter driving test) with which you can get what you folks call a "learner's license," with which you must have an experienced driver sitting next to you. (Authorized by the parents) When you reach 18, you have to take the full exam to get the license again.
At 18, there is a full exam after which you get a limited license. The only limitation is, that your maximum allowed speed is 90km/h (this limitation also applies to the "learner's license"). The maximum speed in Estonia in very very few roads is 110 km/h, so it's really hard to understand the reason for this limitation.
The limited license lasts 2 years. During that time you must complete the advanced driver's course, which includes "economical driving" and "driving on slippery roads". (So you learn about slippery roads after having driven for nearly 2 years.) For these, you don't have to take the state exam and are only examined by the teaching company. From them you get the necessary paper that you have passed the test, with which you can finally get a full (experienced driver) license, when the limited license has expired.
The way I understand, this full license thing is just for the teaching companies who want my monies.
First you must of course take the mandatory theory lessons (41x45min) and driving lessons (40 lessons).
For ages 16-17 there is a shorter exam (contents are the same, but less theory questions and shorter driving test) with which you can get what you folks call a "learner's license," with which you must have an experienced driver sitting next to you. (Authorized by the parents) When you reach 18, you have to take the full exam to get the license again.
At 18, there is a full exam after which you get a limited license. The only limitation is, that your maximum allowed speed is 90km/h (this limitation also applies to the "learner's license"). The maximum speed in Estonia in very very few roads is 110 km/h, so it's really hard to understand the reason for this limitation.
The limited license lasts 2 years. During that time you must complete the advanced driver's course, which includes "economical driving" and "driving on slippery roads". (So you learn about slippery roads after having driven for nearly 2 years.) For these, you don't have to take the state exam and are only examined by the teaching company. From them you get the necessary paper that you have passed the test, with which you can finally get a full (experienced driver) license, when the limited license has expired.
The way I understand, this full license thing is just for the teaching companies who want my monies.
Morning with no traffic, cheats.
Hey. I gotta do something when I'm driving home from a girls house some 150KM north of where I live. Monday mornings straight to work FTW.
The observer is deemed to be in charge of the vehicle, so therefore liable to the same ... g under the influence law.
I pretty much agree with the rest of your points too.
I must admit that in retrospect when I passed first time at 21, I was not fully prepared for the road either. I had only taken a couple of lessons from a family friend who was a professional driver (fireman), but there is no substitute for proper experience, and hazard awareness.
Why was I nodding while reading Tristan's post?
What's the point in the curfew?
Why do the roads suddenly become safer/more dangerous (I can't work out which they think it is*) after midnight?
*if it's safer then why shouldn't new drivers be out? If it's more dangerous then where has this magic figure of midnight to 6am come from? Why not sunrise to sunset?
Why do the roads suddenly become safer/more dangerous (I can't work out which they think it is*) after midnight?
*if it's safer then why shouldn't new drivers be out? If it's more dangerous then where has this magic figure of midnight to 6am come from? Why not sunrise to sunset?
Graduated driver licencing (UK)
(77 posts, started )
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