Got a problem with the ZT.

Was driving along a country road, let off the throttle to slow for a bend, as I came out I realized I was doing ~800 RPM (idling). Changed gear, still coasting along. Realized something was wrong, coasted to a stop at the side of the road.

Once i'd stopped, I tried to pull away - I put it in first, and as I let the clutch I could feel it bite a little but give up. Can put it in any gear I like (with or without the clutch) but it's got no drive in any (even reverse), and doesn't stall, just sits there, idling. No weird noises, either when idling, changing gear or when it's "in" gear. It just sounds like it's constantly idling (because it is).

Clutch feels normal, but have had an odd loud "clattering" occasionally (i.e. maybe 5 times since I've had the car), getting more frequent up until the other day. Normally turning the engine off / on fixes this, but not the other day.

Got towed home, so the car is now parked on the drive.

Technical details - 2004 MG ZT 135+ Diesel Manual, almost 104k miles, been cared for well, been mine for just over a year. Full details - www.tinyurl.com/JakgZT



I originally suspected the clutch (only because it seems to be the most common point of failure on the owners clubs), but my Dad is not so sure (as the pedal feels fine and you can engage any gear)


Any suggestions as to what it could be?

Gear linkage?

To Add - Changing gear is possible with or without the clutch, but harder without the clutch.

Your clutch is clearly not engaging properly. How could this not be the clutch? Being able to go through the gearbox, while the engine is idling, with or without the clutch, is a clear indication of this.

You do understand how the drivetrain works, right? If your clutch were working properly, you'd never get it in gear at a stop with the engine running and the clutch engaged (i.e. foot off the clutch). If you somehow managed to do so, it would stall instantly.

I honestly can't believe you're even asking this.

Yeah, even I would say clutch linkage, and I am terrible at diagnosing these kind of problems.

Quote from Forbin :

Your clutch is clearly not engaging properly. How could this not be the clutch? Being able to go through the gearbox, while the engine is idling, with or without the clutch, is a clear indication of this.

My Dad was under the illusion that if I can engage gears, and that engaging gears with the clutch is easier than without, the clutch must be doing at least something. But he's not a mechanic of course.

Quote from amp88 :

Gear linkage?

When it's in first, I can feel a little bite as I release the clutch which I dont get in neutral, which suggests something is obviously changing down there as I change gear.


And from Tristan on Facebook:

Quote :

Clutches don't just 'go'. They slip for ages. Unless it's the hydraulic part of the system, but they will tend to pump up for a long time before they actually stop working altogether.

Only other thing I can think of is you sheared all the teeth off one of the gears in the diff.

Quote from Forbin :

How could this not be the clutch?

I honestly can't believe you're even asking this.

Like I said, I thought it was the clutch... but my Dad wasn't so sure. Taking it to a garage to fix is going to be expensive (as in, it's going to be very difficult to take a "dead" car to a garage, and once it's there I really don't have much choice other than pay whatever they deem wrong).

After posting my rant on Facebook, Tristan commented again suggesting it might not be the clutch, which is whats prompted me to ask.




If it *is* the clutch, the local garage want ~£750 to fit a new one. Mr Clutch in Norwich want ~£320, which is a lot better, but getting my dead car 35 miles could prove a pain, especially if I turn up and it's not the clutch.

Quote from Jakg :

Like I said, I thought it was the clutch... but my Dad wasn't so sure. Taking it to a garage to fix is going to be expensive (as in, it's going to be very difficult to take a "dead" car to a garage, and once it's there I really don't have much choice other than pay whatever they deem wrong).

After posting my rant on Facebook, Tristan commented again suggesting it might not be the clutch, which is whats prompted me to ask.

If it *is* the clutch, the local garage want ~£750 to fit a new one. Mr Clutch in Norwich want ~£320, which is a lot better, but getting my dead car 35 miles could prove a pain, especially if I turn up and it's not the clutch.

Well the engine clearly runs okay, so the problem has to be somewhere between the crankshaft and the wheels.

A. clutch not gripping
B. transmission gears sheared
C. at least one diff gear sheared (or disengaged somehow)
D. at least one driveshaft broken

Is there a clutch adjustment that suddenly went out of whack? Is the clutch hydraulic or cable-actuated?

I'd look under the car at the driveshafts. Are they connected at both ends?
Can you see if the clutch arm is moving as someone presses the pedal (which will remove the hydraulic system from the unknowns).
Does the gearbox crunch if you don't use the clutch when you put it in gear? If you are gentle, can you feel the dogs on the gears locking together or the syncromesh working?

I wonder if the loud bangs you heard were driveshaft bolts coming loose, falling out and hitting the underside of the car as they departed company.

Can you tell the local garage that Mr Clutch want less money? Maybe there are mobile mechanics that will do the job for a fair amount?

Quote from Forbin :

Is there a clutch adjustment that suddenly went out of whack? Is the clutch hydraulic or cable-actuated?

I have no idea. I *believe* it's hydraulic, but only because theres some sort of fluid that goes in above the pedal itself.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Does the gearbox crunch if you don't use the clutch when you put it in gear? If you are gentle, can you feel the dogs on the gears locking together or the syncromesh working?

Goes into gear with a little force no matter what the RPM, no sort of crunching at all.

I'm not quite sure what I can feel through the gearstick to be honest - it just feels "normal".

Quote from tristancliffe :

I wonder if the loud bangs you heard were driveshaft bolts coming loose, falling out and hitting the underside of the car as they departed company.

I wouldn't think so - the clattering has gone on for 1-2 minutes before, and it's happened several times before (maybe 5?)

Quote from tristancliffe :

I'd look under the car at the driveshafts. Are they connected at both ends?
Can you see if the clutch arm is moving as someone presses the pedal (which will remove the hydraulic system from the unknowns).

I will have a go with all the stuff next week, thanks.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Can you tell the local garage that Mr Clutch want less money? Maybe there are mobile mechanics that will do the job for a fair amount?

I'll have a go, but as it's happened at 4 on a Friday I can't get through to anyone anymore.

The garage I called are usually quite cheap for this sort of thing, but I still think i'm looking at ~£500 from a normal garage.

Worryingly, they originally quoted £1080 including DMF (which to my knowledge virtually never fails on my car), but refused to guarantee their work if a new DMF wasn't fitted, nor would they inspect the DMF once it was out.

MMm, just to add to the check up

Cable of the clutch

Quote from Inouva :

MMm, just to add to the check up

Cable of the clutch

If it's hydraulic then it doesn't have a cable. I personally doubt it's a problem with the hydraulics. I'd be more inclined to suspect the pressure plate or clutch disc. Though either of those would probably make quite a bit of noise if they were to break.

My car lost 1st, 2nd and 5th gears as in when you selected them nothing happened.

It turned out to be linkage, apparently a single bolt had come loose and dropped down into the gearbox. Kinda lucky it was found, it could've ended up being fired through the casing.

Clutch master cylinder or something is probably stuck. Your clutch probably feels normal because from the pedal to the master cylinder is fine. You don't actually push the clutch you push some fluid which goes to the master cylinder which pushes the clutch. It's mainly pedal>cylinder which affects feel rather than cylinder to clutch.

You answered your question in the OP, IMO "Went to pull away, felt clutch bite but then give up"...probably need a new clutch. Job done.

Quote from S14 DRIFT :

Clutch master cylinder or something is probably stuck. Your clutch probably feels normal because from the pedal to the master cylinder is fine. You don't actually push the clutch you push some fluid which goes to the master cylinder which pushes the clutch. It's mainly pedal>cylinder which affects feel rather than cylinder to clutch.

Nonsense! Maybe time to read up in hydraulic circuits?

There are many things I need to read up on. Like how to not be a fatarse. Either way, I said to a mate about this and he told me that.

A fatarse?! That's a new insult...

You should learn to not quote the ideas of people that don't know anything. Your 'mate' should learn before opening his mouth.

I'm allowed to insult myself. And oh well.

clutch master/slaves don't usually "jam" as such, they usually fail due to seals letting go/wearing out.

I'd be checking the stuff tristan suggested.

Just to clarify, you keep saying it was just idling, does the engine still rev up, or does it idle even with WOT?

It does sound like your clutch has let go to me. Being hydraulic they can auto adjust until you completely run out of friction material, at which point they just drop off the cliff. Although I've not had many cars to work on that used a hydraulic clutch where that happened (two of the 18 hydraulically operated clutches I've replaced), but I have come across vehicles where it happened.

Unfortunately the only way to check is to pop off the gearbox, which is a 5 hour 30 minute job, start to finish (using book times), so will cost a few pennies at a garage.

Quote from P5YcHoM4N :

Just to clarify, you keep saying it was just idling, does the engine still rev up, or does it idle even with WOT?

Can rev it to redline in any gear (or neutral).

I think the problems in this valve may cause loss of engine power

Does the speedo move when u rev it in gear? Or can u see a driveshaft spinning when in gear and not moving?

Get someone else to look lol incase the car decides to fix itself and launch...

Why would the speedo move?

(afaik speedo is done off ABS sensors on the hubs).

Will check the driveshafts when I have some free time.