Nice battle for the win between these 3 guys!
I've loved Webber which makes the taxi for Alonso out of fueled! xD Funny things!
I've loved Webber which makes the taxi for Alonso out of fueled! xD Funny things!
Ah this was a great and fun race. Real good stuff from Hamo today, the outside pass on Alonso was super.
Big thumbs up to Sutil also, 6th is really nice. Too bad Maldonado had bad luck.
Big thumbs up to Sutil also, 6th is really nice. Too bad Maldonado had bad luck.
Super? What? Homo was on warm tyres and Alo had no grip yet due to cold tyres. How was it super...? It was piss easy.
If it was 'piss easy', how come Webber couldn't do it to Hamilton ?
You really are have a "full of shit" day today. Even by your own low standards today is proving exceptional.
All Hamilton needs to do now is look after his tyres better and learn how overtake and he could win another race 
Has to be said that Alonso & Hamilton both demonstrated why they are the two best drivers in F1. Only if Vettel could overtake he could join em, but he's probably been to the Overtaking School of Juzaa where one must only overtake on an excessively long straights and be fully ahead before the braking zone - no in or mid or exit corner overtaking allowed.
Has to be said that Alonso & Hamilton both demonstrated why they are the two best drivers in F1. Only if Vettel could overtake he could join em, but he's probably been to the Overtaking School of Juzaa where one must only overtake on an excessively long straights and be fully ahead before the braking zone - no in or mid or exit corner overtaking allowed.
Well I still don't get why was that overtake so freaking awesome. Simple physics. Why am I even bothering...
Every time he wins or does something good he's raised to heaven and is said to be the best F1 driver ever on earth. That's bullshit. Eddie Jordan & co. should really stop praising him all the time. So interesting when he crashed Massa in 2 races, he wasn't the one to blame. Why? He's not a saint, goddamn it! They called it "passionate driving", had a good laugh on that one too...
Of course it's clear that he has the talent, but sometimes he could use his brain. That "could" make him one of the best drivers.
I'm out.
When was the last time you saw an overtake that defied phsyics?
I mean.. of course warm tyres have more grip. It was very easy to take Alonso over even from the outside. What's so awesome in that? Someone please explain because I really can't understand!
Isn't it a wonder how two best racers in F1 are both over 80 points behind the current leader in championship points? About Vettel's overtaking skills, I would like to see you overtake someone who's 5-10 km/h faster than you in straights. (that's the difference between Red Bull and Mclaren in case you didn't know) It's a lot harder than being faster or equal in straight speeds. Vettel can't overtake as easily as Hamilton because his car isn't fast enough. That's just the way their car is designed. Just remember what happened between Hamilton and Webber this race when Webber overtook Hamilton and Hamilton overtook him in the next straight. That overtake wasn't about skill, it was about pure engine power and showed how much more superior Mclaren's car is in straights when compared to Red Bull's. Also note that unlike Hamilton Vettel hasn't really had to race against anyone more than a few times this season. If you are fast enough you don't need to overtake. If you can't drive well enough in qualifying and tend to make lot of mistakes then you might need to overtake.
If you have 2 racers and one is faster than the other no matter how good the slower one is in overtaking the faster one will win more races because we have a thing called qualifying where the fastest driver gets the pole. Also you might not need to overtake in the track but rather just be able to drive few perfect laps before or after your pit (depending whether your opponent pits before or after you) to overtake.
I'm also surprised you are not commenting about Hamilton's move on Webber since you're the one whining about Hamilton's overtake attempts being blocked. Only this time it was Hamilton who pushed Webber out of the track to the grass.
No, not really. The WDC is not a pure measurement of driver ability. Never has been, never will be, and never should it be. Glock isn't suddenly one of the worst drivers in the field because he's failed to score a point and nor does that mean that vettel is the grand daddy because he's storming the championship. It's all about the car.
And it's a widely held view, nothing shocking at all, that Hamilton & Alonso are the two best drivers in F1. Vettel is a very very close third, but he needs to improve his overtaking.
As someone has already pointed out, Webber failed to do the exact same thing to Hamilton on the previous lap - that should show you that it was not an easy pass.
Partly true but it requires skill to beat the crap out of Webber about every race (excluding the last 2) and winning all the time. Vettel has lead something like 70% of all the laps he's driven this year.
I would really like to know where you got in your mind that it would be widely known that Hamilton would be in top 2 best drivers. It's probably just in Britain since I've never heard anything like that. I've seen top 3 and top 5 lists of best drivers which all have included Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton in no particular order. I think you're just upset that your favourite driver Hamilton isn't doing as well as he should have and that he's messed few of this year's races on his own.
Honestly I think it's Hamilton who needs to improve the most. (also see as ''can improve the most'') He's probably the most talented guy of the three but also has a problem with driving to good points constantly. Vettel and Alonso are almost every time in the top where Hamilton is either in the top 3 or somewhere bottom due to crashes, penalties or just some mess he's created. Hamilton also lacs the mentality to look after the drivers championship points and not to think only the race you are currently racing.
KERS, better exit from the corner, slipstream, pretty long list of other variables that come into play, not just top speed.
If top speed was the only reason he passes, then how come the cars with the better aero + mechanical grip don't leave him for dust?
To only give one side of the argument that mclaren is pure speed and that was the only reason he passed is just plain and simple bullshit
Not yet, but I'm sure Kobayshi is cooking something up.
Oi oi, hush up Boi. Hamilton held off Webber the same way the previous lap.
Why have all the butthurts come out against Hamilton, he was clearly the best driver today end of story.
Also another insane drive by Kobayashi, overtaking 5 cars on the first lap to get points from 17th was an insane performance.
Also another insane drive by Kobayashi, overtaking 5 cars on the first lap to get points from 17th was an insane performance.
Why is he 3rd in the championship ahead of alonso then? Surely if he was making as many mistakes as you say he is he'd be near the bottom?? Your a mental case.
I didn't say it was the only reason in every overtake. It was the reason in that particular overtake Hamilton did to Webber. Webber didn't have worse exit, he passed in the corner from the inside, Hamilton drove slower in the corner and was left behind. Slipstream is overrated. Besides it is same to everyone when overtaking so it doesn't explain differences between overtaking difficulties. Without faster exit speed or better speed slipstream doesn't help you nearly enough in a situation like Webber and Hamilton had.
Everyone uses KERS in same places and you must know that. Every time you see the KERS meter of 2 cars in tv it's in about the same level. No major differences. If both use KERS at the same time then KERS doesn't give you advantage unless you've got a better one (and Mclaren does have advantage in KERS over Red Bull too, they've had problems with it all the time and I remember reading that Red Bull doesn't have all the power in their KERS that could be used by the rules).
Have you seen the top speed charts from practices? In practice 3 Red Bull drivers were 19th and 20th in the top speed and lost over 11 km/h to the first one and 5km/h to Hamilton. That is a huge difference. Red Bulls exit the corners faster than others since their better corner speed is the only possible explanation for their fast times because they clearly lose in every straight so the speed difference between Red Bull and other top cars is quite big when thinking that the others first catch Red Bulls and then draw that big gap before the speed trap. Also note that Red Bulls DRS is designed for qualifying, not overtaking and doesn't give as much advantage as Mclaren's or Ferrari's when opened.
You cannot deny that it's much easier for Hamilton to overtake with his car than Vettel because of their top speed differences in tracks. There are other variables that affect overtaking of course but none are as important as speed in straights if you look at the car design, not driving. Wake up.
And pearcy, it's because when Hamilton has finished high in this season he usually has finished higher than Alonso. Simple, isn't it. Alonso finishes more often in top but Hamilton finishes higher when he's in the top. That makes up for his mistakes once in a while but does hurt his chances to fight for the championship. Alonso has finished in top three 5 times this season and Hamilton has only 4 times. Hamilton has finished 2 times as first and 2 times as second. Alonso has finished once in the first place, three times as second and once in the third place. Hamilton messed his own race in Malaysia, Monaco and Canada. Excluding those races his worst result is 4th. See what I'm meaning?
How about you learn to read properly, even if it's something negative about your Hamilton?
He said Hamilton is probably the most talented one of the bunch, and that is obviously the reason he is 3rd. In the beginning of the season he had a much better car than Alonso, and that is why he is ahead.
Small hint: Compare Hamilton and Button's points. And then compare Massa and Alonso.
Juzza, Hamilton is ahead of him, that's all that matters, alonso can finish as consistently as he likes but he's still behind Hamilton who apart from a few blips has been pretty good this season.
Yes lible, i'm sure that's the reason.
Small hint - Check the 2007 championship standings.
Yes lible, i'm sure that's the reason.
Small hint - Check the 2007 championship standings.
Actually Vettel's ahead of everyone. That is all that matters.
You don't get it do you. Being second doesn't count for anything. How many drivers are remembered for being second? Maybe one.
2007 Räikkönen won the championship because Alonso and Hamilton were too busy fighting against each others with the best car in the series. 2007 is remembered as the year Räikkönen won the championship, not as a year Hamilton finished second in the standings with equal amount of points as Alonso (who had problems with the team all season). Hamilton threw his great season away with horrible performance in the last 2 races and showed he wasn't ready to be a champion.
Do you remember 2008? Hamilton screwed up the final race and only by luck managed to finish 5th in the race and win the championship. That isn't remembered though. It is only remembered that he won it and Massa who came second isn't remembered. That's because he finished second. Hamilton has issues with withstanding the pressures and so far hasn't really impressed with his mental capabilities.
Also try to remember that Alonso has 2 world championship victories and Hamilton has 2. That sort of implies that Alonso's better than Hamilton. If they both retired now Alonso would be remembered as better driver because of his championship victories. It's all about the results you have after the season, not about the performance in single races. If you don't win it doesn't matter are you second, third, fourth or fifth no one will remember you from that season as a winner. With bad luck you might be remembered as a loser.
I'd rather win the F1 championship once than finish second ten times. I'm sure all drivers feel that way.
Juzaa if you think the drivers championship table is representative of driver ability then I think you need to go watch another sport. It's a glorified constructors table with an emphasis on drivers to make F1 are marketable product to the masses.
You have to look beyond the actual results to discover who's the best, and regularly, around the world Hamilton and Alonso are considered the best two drivers.
You have to look beyond the actual results to discover who's the best, and regularly, around the world Hamilton and Alonso are considered the best two drivers.
This thread turned out to be rubbish. I can't stand anyone saying anything positive about Hamilton, he's the driver we love to hate! Perhaps it's coz he is black...
2011 Formula 1 Grand Prix Santander von Deutschland (Nürburgring GP)
(91 posts, started )
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