LFS Peace makers gang?

No but really, you wont be able to protect anything on your own.

Quote from DevilDare :

LFS Peace makers gang?

No but really, you wont be able to protect anything on your own.

Who said anything about alone? I definately know enough people who would be willing to go out and hunt down these wankers, and I'm a wimpy middle class nerd, so I imagine there are hard working people in London who can do the same.

Southampton will be okay though, our town center is pretty much all clubs and pubs with bouncers, and these are Russian and Polish bouncers, big nasty bastards that look like they could crack a chavs skull with their little toe.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Southampton will be okay though, our town center is pretty much all clubs and pubs with bouncers, and these are Russian and Polish bouncers, big nasty bastards that look like they could crack a chavs skull with their little toe.

Ahh yes. Them kind.

Quote from DevilDare :

Ahh yes. Them kind.

The ones that look like something on World of Warcraft that you need a team of people and several hours of finger bashing madness to kill.

Or some vodka. That usually works too...

Provided they don't aggro straight away and are willing to hear you out.

If you really want to be depressed: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150333636850851

London, I am disappoint.

Every camera shot I see in the news are teens in hoodies stealing stuff.

It's the same scenario we've had in Serbia on couple of occasions, a few years a go. Started as a political protest, soon ended with looting... teenagers.

Seams that '90s weren't the happiest years to get born... and these aren't the happiest times to live, no matter where we are?

It seems people are trying to stir up trouble in Southampton now, my mates and some people on Facebook are saying that they are getting messages from people on BBM attempting to organise similar riots here. My concern is that this sparks up a fight between the football hooligans in Southampton and Portsmouth, they are always looking for an excuse to fight. Hopefully it won't come to anything, everyone is reporting any messages they get to the police, so the bastards should be getting a wake up call from the police this morning.

Wow, riots, in romford? Been there back in school with a student exchange program. Very fond memories of the Sir Frances Bardsley School for girls...

But I digress: While I do understand the frustration with those youths jumping in on an opportunity to cause mayhem and looting, you guys suggetsing shooting them can't be serious.

Not only is that a way overblown reaction, I highly doubt that killing teenagers will calm the situation. Reacting to violence with more violence rarely leads to desired peace, especially nowadays.

IMHO, the only smart thing the government can do is try to not escalate things further themselves by acting too violently, but rather let it cool off, arrest people aftwerwards (yes, i do know they will only get a low percentage of the looters) and then see how to deal with the finacial and material losses.

It's all down to the fact that kids no longer have any fear, due to them knowing the worst that'll happen to them is a slap on the wrist.
If they knew they were going to get a smack round the chops with a batton, then things would be different. Instil fear, instil order...

no so much fear I suppose, but some action should have heavy consequences.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/v ... n-riots-london?CMP=twt_gu

Don't **** with the Turks

Quote from GFresh :

Instil fear, instil order...

Wow, that's a nice philosophy there.

While highly utopic, I personally am rather fond of the notion that parents should go back to parenting their children and teaching them what's wrong or right, rather than outsourcing that to institutoins like schools or the police... Not to mention that fear is never a good means to achieve anything in long terms.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

Wow, that's a nice philosophy there.

While highly utopic, I personally am rather fond of the notion that parents should go back to parenting their children and teaching them what's wrong or right, rather than outsourcing that to institutoins like schools or the police... Not to mention that fear is never a good means to achieve anything in long terms.

While unleashing the army on the capital is not what I ever hoped we'd need - what can you do now to stop this?

I'm not sure we need the army - but we need something more than the "normal" met. There aren't enough of them, and they aren't really prepared for riots like this.

What we could do with is something like the NI police force & their vehicles.

Meh, every single person made their own conscious choice to loot and pillage outside of what may be considered as reasonable retaliation for killing one of "them". Make idiotic choice; live with consequence.

I think when you get large groups of people, particularly when they belong to minority ethnic groups, who are mostly living in poverty and feel that they don't have any political power, stuff like this is going to happen. Clearly these people don't feel any sense of ownership of their own neighbourhoods or they wouldn't be causing destruction like this. It's an us-and-them thing, and if people feel that way then the only approach that will improve the situation is to try to include those people in wider society to a greater extent.

I'm not saying they shouldn't all get nicked for it, mind.

I dunno.....most of the kids I see on TV are white.

I'm with Kev.

The environment in Tottenham is one where all the youth facilities have been closed down in the last few years, then led to kinds walking to the street instead of taking part in community things like youth clubs and the like. The result is that these kids have been continually stopped by the police for years - so when the police shot one of their own, and the circumstances didnt make sense to those who knew the person involved, the result is what you see.

I almost got caught up in the rioting myself, I was on my way back from an Iron Maiden concert and the Picadilly line was closed for the weekend so my friends and I took the bus, we passed just the other side of Ali Palli from the riots before we heard about them. Where we were was trashed on the second night.

My most sincere concern over this incident is that a dangerous precedent is set for the use of force against protestors/rioters. Fear is a weapon that should be used by the people not the state, fear of unrest is the most powerful political weapon the people have. If we loose the ability to protest by facing ever stronger responses then we loose the ability to control our government. Already it is illegal to protest anywhere near the houses of parliament - if the response to protest is accepted as being much stronger, then we could effectively loose the right altogether - and this will actually breed more violence (aka: Egypt and Murrabak etc).

The only sensible response to this state of affairs is to shift more toward the left and grant more civil liberty, not to remove it. The cause must be addressed because treating symptoms does not remove a problem and we must not loose sight of that.

We have to shift the "them & us" to "us & us", because only by inclusion can we remove the problem that we now face. We have to respond with MORE democracy.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I think when you get large groups of people, particularly when they belong to minority ethnic groups, who are mostly living in poverty and feel that they don't have any political power, stuff like this is going to happen. Clearly these people don't feel any sense of ownership of their own neighbourhoods or they wouldn't be causing destruction like this.

...but what about the less wealthy minority ethnic groups who came out to defend their community and defend their property? For example, the Turkish community of Dalston. They don't need youth groups to stop them rioting. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

First it was the fact the poor didn't have healthcare, education and welfare that caused disruption. They have all that and still we get disruption and chaos because some youth clubs have closed down? I think people need to wake up a bit. What we are witnessed is opportunist criminals. They've seen a window of opportunity to nick a load of stuff without consequence.

Quote from Jakg :

While unleashing the army on the capital is not what I ever hoped we'd need - what can you do now to stop this?

I'm not sure we need the army - but we need something more than the "normal" met. There aren't enough of them, and they aren't really prepared for riots like this.

What we could do with is something like the NI police force & their vehicles.

See, I personally think there's nothing the governement can do to stop this. For the governement, this is clearly a no-win scenario.

If they intervene by force, no matter if it's the police or the army, it will certainly fuel the riots.

But if they act passively, wait for it to go out by istelf and then start prosecuting looters and vandals, thy will lose a lot of voters that feel they haven't answered adequately and let of the "wrongdoers" too lightly.

I am also very much with becky and kev.

Quote from Intrepid :

...but what about the less wealthy minority ethnic groups who came out to defend their community and defend their property? For example, the Turkish community of Dalston. They don't need youth groups to stop them rioting. What ever happened to personal responsibility?

Clearly they feel differently. Wasn't it Turkish-owned businesses they were securing? I would expect business owners to have a different experience to jobless youth, wouldn't you?

Quote from Intrepid :

First it was the fact the poor didn't have healthcare, education and welfare that caused disruption. They have all that and still we get disruption and chaos because some youth clubs have closed down. I think people need to wake up a bit.

What we are witnessed is opportunist criminals. They've seen a window of opportunity to nick a load of stuff without consequence.

And they don't usually get any opportunities, so they're taking it with both hands. Personally, if I found a wallet in the street I would try to find the owner and return it, but if I was on benefits or in a shit minimum wage job I might just take the money. Yeah it's illegal and opportunistic, but if you can't get along any other way then maybe that's just what you do. And when you compare it to the way the so-called respectable members of society operate (most business owners with their tax calculations, MPs with their expenses, etc.) it's no different.

Quote from Becky Rose :

The environment in Tottenham is one where all the youth facilities have been closed down in the last few years, then led to kinds walking to the street instead of taking part in community things like youth clubs and the like.

Who ever went to a 'youth club' when they were kids, or thought that was a cool thing to do? I don't really believe that those kids rioting right now are doing so because they don't have access to public trampolines. I don't really understand it- but I'm inclined to agree with Intrepid here if kids on the dole in that part of the world are anything like the kids on the dole in mine.

They don't have any opportunities? Rubbish! They get FREE healthcare, FREE education, FREE welfare and a number of funded social groups etc... Most of that is still there. They must have homes with electricity to go to use their new TVs. Poor? There are MILLIONS... maybe BILLIONS that would die (and some do) to get the opportunities these kids have.

There are communities of people all across the UK who didn't use excuses as to why they were poor. They got on with it, started businesses, become independent, and became part of the community. Maybe schools should teach personal responsibility a lot more, not that it would actually work.

While I broadly sympathise with the message of more civil liberties there is no real solution to this other than the communities coming together and protecting themselves.

All these things are being slowly eroded by a conservative government. Perhaps if you had to live off unemployment benefit for any real amount of time you wouldn't be so detached from the reality. The mainstream media like you all to think that people are living off £100s a week when this really isn't the case for the majority of claimants. As for using youth clubs, my local one was always full, the better off kids tend to shun them which is why they probably think nobody uses them, again completely out of touch from the reality.

Essentially this whole situation has been caused by years of ignorance about less fortunate people's problems. The middle and upper classes stick their head in the sand then act surprised when society collapses because people have come to the conclusion 'why bother?' and that attitude has rubbed off on their children.