It looks amazing how the Tyre is working in real life

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

My Outback disagrees with your statement. Lol. (Can't find the real photo, only the photoshopped one.)

you've compared a heavy car with massive understeer. . .

the only thing i can see is when the tire is low to sustain a suitable amount of grip, the side wall flex is too much, but if you put more air in the tire to stop the side wall flex there isn't enough friction between road and tire contact point, can't win!

i can understand the tire has a higher pressure when hot but there is no in-between to suit a half decent driving style. you either go slow to keep the heat down which loses races or go as fast as you can to try and win but you gain too much heat as there is no 'middle' between 'low pressure/grip' or 'higher pressure + tire life/less grip. where is the average/middle?

Quote from daveb948576 :

you've compared a heavy car with massive understeer. . .

Psh. 3100 lbs is like Miata territory... give or take.

In all seriousness, though, the car isn't too bad on understeer from the factory. It's there, obviously, but it's not nearly as bad as you might expect.

Quote from daveb948576 :

i can understand the tire has a higher pressure when hot but there is no in-between to suit a half decent driving style. you either go slow to keep the heat down which loses races or go as fast as you can to try and win but you gain too much heat as there is no 'middle' between 'low pressure/grip' or 'higher pressure + tire life/less grip. where is the average/middle?

So you are basically saying "Whatever you do, your tyres are going to overheat?"

P.S.: A Mazda Miata NC weights about 1100kg, 3100 lbs are 1400kg. That's quite a difference.

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

Psh. 3100 lbs is like Miata territory... give or take.

In all seriousness, though, the car isn't too bad on understeer from the factory. It's there, obviously, but it's not nearly as bad as you might expect.

The only way 3100 lbs is miata territory is with 4 americans riding in it.

Quote from Osco :

The only way 3100 lbs is miata territory is with 4 americans riding in it.

Nice try to denigrate americans, but the difference is about 300kg, which makes 75kg per person and that's not at all what you would call fat.

Also, the Miata is a 2-seater.

Quote from ATHome :

Also, the Miata is a 2-seater.

Thanks for informing me, I've only had one for 5 years now

Just saying, if you consider 3000+ lbs miata territory, you are doing something wrong.

Quote from Osco :

Thanks for informing me, I've only had one for 5 years now

Just saying, if you consider 3000+ lbs miata territory, you are doing something wrong.

Yes, you are doing something wrong, but there is still no reason to bash all Americans for a mistake done by one person.

I don't think my MX-5 weighed 3000lbs when it was in the shipping container coming over here. It would struggle to weight 3000lbs if you weighed the ship at the same time. And its cargo.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I don't think my MX-5 weighed 3000lbs when it was in the shipping container coming over here. It would struggle to weight 3000lbs if you weighed the ship at the same time. And its cargo.

the only true weight of a mx-5 is the driver, i mean, you could steer it with you're arms out the window alone...


OT: why compare a subaru workhorse to a shopping cart, then to a cheap soft top ?


i know the " try to get a census between a varity of models " is grand, but its a far spread between points of interest and frankly... we'll get physics when their done, until then...

According to Mazda's official site, the current generation of MX-5 Miata weights 2447-2542 lbs, or 1110-1153 kg.

Back to the tire distorting topic : Can anyone take / find some pictures of on-the-limit cornering tires and post them together with tire model / pressure / car weight info ? I can't touch my car now and Google only found me a small photo without any other useful info.

I remember some youtube videos showing crazy deformation of tyres under load, found these 2 but the one I can remember was different. Could've been V8 Supercars, not sure anymore.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8UiE7yvO_M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUSZPMl5JsI

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SFAt9cqZyU

I guess I need to practice my internet sarcasm more often...

how about low profile street tires?

Quote from Stang70Fastback :

I guess I need to practice my internet sarcasm more often...

and upgrade yo pc

It has gotten to a point where even I don't care about defending LFS outside of this forum anymore.

Because really, I think LFS deserves all to mocking and belittling and the jokes around the internet the last few (not that few, really) months.

But hey, at least people are starting to forget all about LFS.

Quote from Qurpiz :

But hey, at least people are starting to forget all about LFS.

Quote from soundlover :

Hi I am registered in 2004 but I still am dem racer

Hi to you too

Quote from soundlover :

never forget

Next Friday 19th December is 2014. Still some time to go..

Why are all you people staring at tires? Do they affect the physics? Personally I only care about how the car feels for the new tire physics.

Ray sh...

Wow...

Quote from Keling :

Back to the tire distorting topic : Can anyone take / find some pictures of on-the-limit cornering tires and post them together with tire model / pressure / car weight info ?

I could try to translate the more important things, but my French is not very good, so could be so difficult hehe

Anyway, the speed, pressure and tire brand is clearly specified (shame of the video's resolution).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I5Wy3e-BZY

Quote from daveb948576 :

the only thing i can see is when the tire is low to sustain a suitable amount of grip, the side wall flex is too much, but if you put more air in the tire to stop the side wall flex there isn't enough friction between road and tire contact point, can't win!

i can understand the tire has a higher pressure when hot but there is no in-between to suit a half decent driving style. you either go slow to keep the heat down which loses races or go as fast as you can to try and win but you gain too much heat as there is no 'middle' between 'low pressure/grip' or 'higher pressure + tire life/less grip. where is the average/middle?

Many of us have been where you are - surprised somebody else hasn't said something about this.

I'll try to be clear (maybe blunt) - don't blame the tire heat for this "problem"!! First your comment is much too generalized - some few cars seemingly overheat tires too much, but many or most cars can be driven til the tread wears too thin and they blowout. But some cars can be prone to overheat tires - yes......but there is a lesson to be learned not a gripe about the tires. I'll explain: I've raced with some "aliens" in, for example, the FXO. The harder I tried to catch them - the more my tires overheated and my lap times dropped. I'd check their car and see that after x laps, their tires were still optimal (or close). I'd ask for and receive their setup .... try some more - same result. They'd be 1-2 sec faster, their tires optimal, mine toast. Hmmmmm - so what gives????

Call it skill ... the exact details of skill can't be so well communicated in words. Try this - download the wr lap for the FXO at SO4R (attached it for you below) and watch the replay from above. Watch for the rubber left on the road and listen to the tire sounds. What you should notice is that he is leaving almost no rubber on the road in the turns past the apex!!!! I'll wager you that if you try the same combo and then watch your replay, you'll see lots of rubber late in the turns and hear that squealing sound way more than on the wr lap.

So the lesson - "pushing" the car on exit doesn't make you faster AND overheats the tires. Sorry, but there is an "in-between" and it is YOU. You can learn form the tire heat where and how you are messing up. I was once frustrated like you are now - and faulted the sim ..... now I'm frustrated but fault myself. I have gotten better at controlling heat and getting fast times, but I am no alien. It is a mark of the quality of the game that some (aliens) do manage this so well while others struggle.

And it strikes me that this is fairly "realistic" as a general principle - wasn't there that race movie where the young racer chews up the tires with his aggressiveness but the seasoned racer knows how to pace the car - it is part of racing isn't it. Don't expect to drive multi-lap races in hotlap mode.

Regarding tire pressure specifically - in many situations, increasing tire pressure beyond a certain point actually causes tires to heat up more because they will slip more easily. Increasing tire pressure is not always the solution - but controlling slip by skilled lines will always help - just few of us master it.

the Dead Men Racing server is featuring the FXO at SO4R all this week with an hour race this Thursday evening (UK time). Come try out the combo with the idea of improving on the tire temperature problem - and having some good clean fun races. When I started with the combo I could only get 3 laps out of the tires - now I can do 10 good laps with the same set.