...again! They seem to be taking advice on F1 car design from the BMW designers they use on their road cars.


BMW-Sauber are planning to race with their radical new nose wings at this weekend's French Grand Prix.

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2804/11526123019ya.jpg

Jacques Villeneuve and test driver Robert Kubica tried out the vertical fins in last week's test at Jerez in Spain, and the team have confirmed that the devices will now be fitted to the cars for Magny-Cours.
The fins, nicknamed by some within the team as the 'Twin Towers' in deference to sponsor Petronas' Twin Towers in Kuala Lumpur, are designed to tidy up the airflow over the car and increase its aerodynamic performance.


Although there had been suggestions that the wings could be banned by the FIA on safety grounds, just as the similar looking X-wings had been in 1998, the team have confirmed that the governing body has already given them the green light over the design.


A team source said: "Before the Jerez test, the team had provided the technical delegate of the FIA with the design of the 'nose' wing and he made no objections. Hence, we will run them in Magny-Cours."


BMW's F1.06 will also be racing with the vertical fins on the airbox that were tried out at Jerez too. These are similar to the wings that feature on the McLaren MP4-21.

wow, that's hideous!
I'm glad the BF1 model was finished before this monstrosity was created :P

One day F1 cars are gonna look like porcupines with fins in all directions...

Vain

It looks like the Batmobile but reversed.

This looks pretty ugly, bu as long as it works, it's okay then.

These cars aren't build to look good, they are build to perform on the racetrack.

F1 cars are going to get uglier anyway in a couple of years when the FIA have put the split rear wing into the regulations

Quote from joen :

F1 cars are going to get uglier anyway in a couple of years when the FIA have put the split rear wing into the regulations

I think split rear wings can look pretty cool, just look at the Zonda.

Well, that's a totally different kind of car. What works on one car (esthetically), doesn't necessarily work on another car. Judging by the drawings I have seen of the split wing proposition it looks disgusting.
Partly a matter of taste I guess, because I think the Zonda is a hideous car

are you sure that isnt the stand for the TV screen they show the drivers when their in the pits? afaik those wings would make them more stable at high speed in a straight line however they would slow them down round corners...

Twin towers they say? Now the only thing missing is an 'accident' with a bird :duck:

even if its not beneficial performancewise, its already beneficial attention/sponsorwise.

Quote from Jakg :

are you sure that isnt the stand for the TV screen they show the drivers when their in the pits? afaik those wings would make them more stable at high speed in a straight line however they would slow them down round corners...

Err... no a fin will have a slight bit of extra drag due to increased frontal area (a tiny amount) but won't make a difference to cornering speed, unless it gives a slight increase in stability.

Will be banned instantly I rekon. Basically X-wings again.

hideous

they really need to sort out some reg to remove / simplify aero devices in f1

the number of barge boards, aero stabalisers etc is getting crazy now, have you seen the shape of the shadow plate at the front of the ferrari's side pods? they're so complex thye recon they can only be measured using fluid dynamics on computer as you cant measure it in a wind tunnel.

how about a simple ruling that front and rear wings must be single element and that, apart from the areas these are allowed in, all body work in between must form a smooth surface with no protrubence more than a certain height away from that surface apart from standard camera housings and radio antennas ?

havent phrased it well and no doubt it would soon not be a "simple" ruling but it would be a good place to start from

Quote from ajp71 :

Err... no a fin will have a slight bit of extra drag due to increased frontal area (a tiny amount) but won't make a difference to cornering speed, unless it gives a slight increase in stability.

but surely the flat "fin" must make more drag as you go round a corner as the air doesnt just hit the front, it also hits the sides, that would make it.... something

Ok, not quite sure what im getting at!

Quote from tinvek :

the number of barge boards, aero stabalisers etc is getting crazy now, have you seen the shape of the shadow plate at the front of the ferrari's side pods? they're so complex thye recon they can only be measured using fluid dynamics on computer as you cant measure it in a wind tunnel.

The funniest thing is having seen the cars close up in the flesh at Goodwood it was the Renault that looked by far the slickest with the least aerodynamic bits stuck on it, actually it is a very attractive cars. Most of the other cars looked horrible with loads of aero bits randomly stuck on them, so maybe they don't work after all?

Quote from ajp71 :

The funniest thing is having seen the cars close up in the flesh at Goodwood it was the Renault that looked by far the slickest with the least aerodynamic bits stuck on it, actually it is a very attractive cars. Most of the other cars looked horrible with loads of aero bits randomly stuck on them, so maybe they don't work after all?

It think that the Renault has some very good aerodynamics without any extra aero bits, its well balanced and properly designed from the beginning. The reason why lots of extra pieces are bolted on to some cars is because they don't work well in their original form. Sort of a "quick fix" while the body is reworked.
My 2 swedish kronor

/Mattemann1

Quote from duke_toaster :

Will be banned instantly I rekon. Basically X-wings again.

Yup, I think so too. The FIA will ban them on 'safety' grounds. I hope so, anyway!

Those fins probably won't add anything to the frontal area of the car (the area they cover will probably already be covered by the cockpit/engine air intake). They will increase the drag coefficient by a tiny amount, partly due to an increase in wetted area (viscous drag) and partly due to any 'lift' generation (induced drag). I say 'lift' but I really mean 'force perpendicular to the fin' and perpendicular to the airflow.
The advantage must come because the tiny increase in drag coefficient is compensated for by a reduction in the drag coefficient over the rear of the car, or they may be sacrificing low-drag for stability.

Those look aweful. Saying all about the wings here and there etc the mclaren looks nice with its horns lol IMO. But some cars are stupid with wings here there and everywhere.

Not half as odd as the V winged Parnelli Indy car (as seen at Goodwood ) http://www.autoracing1.com/MarkC/000803MarioTribute.htm (third down on left)

Quote from ajp71 :

Not half as odd as the V winged Parnelli Indy car (as seen at Goodwood ) http://www.autoracing1.com/MarkC/000803MarioTribute.htm (third down on left)

That would actually make sense, if they were angled down instead of up. Arranged like that, as far as I can figure, they would promote instability instead of preventing it. As the car rolls, downforce will increase on the low side, causing more roll...

The vertical wings confuse me too. They might improve straight line aaerodynamics, but I can' help thinking they will have bad effects in the corners. Position on the front like that, under oversteer or understeer they will tend to push the nose in the wrong direction.

I don't like F1 anyway. Has as much to do with "real cars" as NASCAR does, these days--the technology is so hyper-specialized that develppments have more to do with circumventing rules than technical innovation.

Quote from 5th Earth :

That would actually make sense, if they were angled down instead of up. Arranged like that, as far as I can figure, they would promote instability instead of preventing it. As the car rolls, downforce will increase on the low side, causing more roll...

They had to build it to work that out, they put conventional wings on after testing

Even this looks cool after seeing that BMW:

Quote from deggis :

Even this looks cool after seeing that BMW:

LOL

I suppose that's what you could call a V wing the right way round but I doubt that was what was going through Black Jack's mind at that point

Could we just enclose all F1 cars in transparent plastic bubbles, therefore nulling any aerodynamic differences of the car, and letting cars rub bubbles and get agressive without the fear of wheels touching?