Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Don't forget 2008. I mean... He -almost- gave a damn DWC title to Peter Sauber's team. Kept it cool while Massa and Hamilton both were on the verge of blowing it all due to their unconsistance, despite being in much superior cars.

IMO the most impressive "underdog" championship campaign since Frentzen in 1999.

2008 was a weird season though, by the end you had the cars soo close to each other that the midfeild was basically contesting for wins.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Don't forget 2008. I mean... He -almost- gave a damn DWC title to Peter Sauber's team. Kept it cool while Massa and Hamilton both were on the verge of blowing it all due to their unconsistance, despite being in much superior cars.

IMO the most impressive "underdog" championship campaign since Frentzen in 1999.

BMW had the best overall package in 2008 until it actually won a race and the team decided that was all they needed for the next two years. Sure, Kubica was impressive, but when you build a car that gives Heidfeld a shot at winning, it cannot be called an underdog.

Quote from Yuri Laszlo :

BMW had the best overall package in 2008 until it actually won a race and the team decided that was all they needed for the next two years. Sure, Kubica was impressive, but when you build a car that gives Heidfeld a shot at winning, it cannot be called an underdog.

The BMW was never the best car at any point in that season.

Quote from Yuri Laszlo :

BMW had the best overall package in 2008 until it actually won a race and the team decided that was all they needed for the next two years. Sure, Kubica was impressive, but when you build a car that gives Heidfeld a shot at winning, it cannot be called an underdog.

The only GP Heidfeld had a shot at winning was the Canadian GP... Only 1 GP out of 18 or so, and hardly a "conventional" one. You know, this was the one in which Adrian "walky-girl" Sutil caused a SC period, giving a golden opportunity for Hamilton to T-bone Raïkkonen in the pits.

And didn't Massa got disqualified for a red light infridgement also?

So yea, 3 of the 4 best packages eliminated because of silly incidents... Keeping in mind the only one remaining being was by far the weakest one of the 4(Kovalainen, who never seemed to be in the pace that year).


BMW never had a winning package on sheer pace. The only reasons Kubica managed to get so high in the standings is because he was ever-so consistant and made very few mistakes(a race-ending spin at Silverstone was his biggest, but then many others skilled drivers went off more than once that day).

I have to admit that 2008 was a very special season though, with lots of wet races and incidents involving the top cars. A bit like 1999 in fact

Quote from Mustafur :

2008 was a weird season though, by the end you had the cars soo close to each other that the midfeild was basically contesting for wins.

Honestly, I think that in terms of sheer pace Ferrari and McLaren were still well up front. Maybe not as much as in 2007, but still clearly up front.

I have no stats to back up my point, but if you look at the qualifying sheets, it was still mostly Ferrari and McLaren dominating the front 2 rows.


Now the race result sheets told another story many times that year, true. But this wasn't because the other teams had a package that could only show its full potential in race conditions... IMO it was mostly because:

a) There were many, many wet races, like 5 or 6
b) The Ferrari and McLaren drivers managed to involve themselves in an impressive amount of incidents... and sometimes had to retire because of a few odd technical issues
c) The "closed pits under SC" rule modified several race outcomes radically(Hockenheim and Singapore being the two first examples that comes to my mind).

Looks like HRT has a very small problem with budget. So small that they may not even have one :
http://www.pitpass.com/45485-Liuzzi-Im-still-an-HRT-driver

I still cannot believe Trulli still has seat for next year. Gascoyne must like his italian driver a lot.

Senna to Williams for 2012:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/201 ... ures-williams-drive-2012/

Bollocks imho.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Senna to Williams for 2012:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/201 ... ures-williams-drive-2012/

Bollocks imho.

With so much money, Williams could do a Toyota '09 and build a fast car neither driver can win with.

Williams won't be building a fast car any time soon. They are now a lower to mid-field team and this is what you have to do to survive now.

let the Senna fanboys talk about how "magical" this is right now Truth is, Bruno Senna will be bringing in a fair load of sponsors with him and linking a Senna with Williams again might just be another (albeit desperate) way of attracting more sponsorship.

Oh yeah, and guess who just landed a gig at Sky!

''What if...''

He's not a bad driver. Look at how he stepped into Heidfeld's car at Spa - midseason with no testing - got into Q3.

He's never had a full season, nor preaseason testing (HRT did their first preseason test in Bahrain GP 2010 P2 if memory serves - and the car fell apart). Give him a full winter, all the preseason and then 2012 season and then see how he is.

If he does around about what you would expect of Rubens and he also brings in sponsorship dollars and publicity then it's a good move.

It's sad for Ruben's to be left without a drive without knowing he drove his last race when he did but the decision from the team does make sense.

I do not expect a return in 2013 or a seat opening for him midseason.

Replaced the old Brazilian with the new one, makes sense to me, it's not like they were able to improve their car with input from Rubens, if anything it got worse. At least Bruno looks to have some talent to go with his money, which can't be said of his new team mate.

I'll kinda miss him, as he was the old school driver and did very good job throughout his carreer.
I won't miss his crying in radio and after race about how bad everything is though.

Feeling a bit bad for Sutil too, looks like he won't be around next year

A bit worried about Williams, it will be hard for them with 2 rather unexperienced and incident prone drivers.

BUT anyway... I wonder if/how this affects Bottas' plans... If Barrichello was chosen, there was most likely a free race seat for 2013. But now? I guess it'll depend of whether Maldonado and Senna can secure long-term sponsorship deals...

I can say I'm almost used to no Formula 1 now...
But still good to read that we're gonna see first cars revealed in just couple of weeks!
P.S. I'd love to see Sutil in endu races, I think he belongs there.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Feeling a bit bad for Sutil too, looks like he won't be around next year

A bit worried about Williams, it will be hard for them with 2 rather unexperienced and incident prone drivers.

BUT anyway... I wonder if/how this affects Bottas' plans... If Barrichello was chosen, there was most likely a free race seat for 2013. But now? I guess it'll depend of whether Maldonado and Senna can secure long-term sponsorship deals...

I really don't think Williams will keep both drivers for two seasons. They won't be able to afford it.

at least now we'll be able to draw some meaningful conclusions about B. Senna, he's got all the testing and a full season so by mid season he should be the fastest williams driver given the usual perception of his team mate.

what worries me is where is the direction going to come from in testing, senna is still comparively inexperienced (and not just in F1) and maldonado has only a year in F1 to draw upon (though more lower class experience). i'm just hoping the changes in team personnel williams have made changes things because on the basis of the last few years i'm not sure they have the ability to develope the car without good driver feedback.

One could argue that they have made very little developmental progress even with the most experienced driver in the history of F1.

development progress my ass, Suaber are in worse shape then Willaims financially, they had two rookies basically this year and they where ahead of williams all year.

The driver helps yes, but i think people are getting way too carried away with it.

Two bloody good rookies though, Massa is basically keeping the seat warm for Perez at Ferrari.

the other thing is how people are saying it's great to see the name senna in a williams powered by renault again- as nick daman pointed out, that didn't end so well last time

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Two bloody good rookies though, Massa is basically keeping the seat warm for Perez at Ferrari.

or Bianchi

Quote from Intrepid :

or Bianchi

Good point, I guess that's why they want 3 cars.

Construction going along full steam at Austin.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97091