I would say the same, but if the car turns in and does make contact with you - apparently that is illegal and you can and will get a penalty in league races, regardless of the fact you had nowhere to go and was ahead. Even if the contact was slight and self induced.
Outbraking to take the inside line has to give you the right to the inside in some circumstances, else all overtaking is relegated to between corners and capitalising on mistakes. As far as I've ever observed, the level of 'enough overlap' to give that right ranges from anything-that-would-bring-contact-if-ignored, up to being dead level or ahead.
I prefer the former - if you don't want me trying to take the inside by taking a couple of feet of overlap, then adjust your line to defend the corner. You'll be slower through the corner in a defensive line, and that keeps me right behind you battling. If I you do take a defensive line, I have the option of shooting the apex to get my power down a little earlier, and now you have to defend the next turn too. That's the main component of the tactical side of racing, IMHO, so that being illegal would be a detraction. Might as well just do hotlaps by yourself
I'm not advocating barging, I'm saying that if you turn in tight to an apex and touch a car that has outbraked you, even slightly, then in my books that's your mistake unless they have no chance of making the turn. If you didn't want to run the risk of being outbraked, you should have traded some of your speed for a defensive line. I dare say that I'm in a minority on that, but meh.
Or you could always ask nicely if other drivers wouldn't mind staying behind you because you really want to win, and don't think that a lack of tactical driving experience should be an obstacle to that
It's all grey areas really. Different leagues have different rules. I ran in a GPL league a while ago which had quite a good system. If you got to a point of overlap before the turn in point then the track was effectively split in two. Each driver "owned" a half of the track. The outside driver could still drive on the inside half of the track, but if he did then any contact would automatically be his fault, and vice versa.
Any contact caused by overlap after the turn in point (ie a dive bomb, regardless of how far alongside they got) would be the responsibility of the car overtaking.
What got me thinking about this was watching an F1 race from years ago. It was imola and Montoya was overtaking Schumaker on the outside. Schumacker squeeeeezed montoya out wh9ich I thought was unfair but apparently that is ok. If a car is stuck on the outside of you, you can run them out of room.
I would say that I think would be fair play that everyone respect their lane, as mentioned Storm_Colud, but .... for this to happen the two competitors must be equal, of experience. It is not easy to achieve that kind of overtopping when you do not know for sure if the guy next door "dance" with you as in ballet.
Late Braking: People often make the mistake of excessive late braking to overtake, this never works and it's what I would call bad overtaking, espically when it causes an accident.
Leaving driving line:
You should always maintain a driving line, just because you're going the same speed as the person you are trying to pass, doesn't mean that you can take the corner as the other driver if you are on the oppisate side of the road furthest from the driving line, I often see this happen on demo servers.
Using other cars as walls:
Nothing pisses a proper racer off as much as being used as a wall by another driver trying to get passed.
The big one
Ramming to get passed, there's nothing worse than a noob who tried to ram his/her way past eveyone, if you're going to crash people do it properly and you may learn something,
Match their pace, get up on the rear quarter panel, wait for the right moment to strike, Narrow straight or blind corners.
Get your timing right, then give their rear quarter a nice hard knock with your bumper trying to avoid wheel damage. if all goes well your target will bounce off the wall and take out some of the field behind him, as quickly as you can push N to bring up the name list vote to ban the player you just sent into the rest of the field and claim that he is a crasher. If all goes well he/she will get banned and will feel like painting troll faces on your car, don't do this, painting troll faces on your car is like shooting your self in the foot.
Most will deny this but you can learn a lot of good techniques by mastering your crash skills, I don't recomend this on S2 servers or popular demo servers like Time attack or AMG.
My first 2 years of LFS when I was 14-16 I didn't make money for a good wheel so I spent most of my time mastering crash skills in demo servers,
Good overtaking
Bump pass:
This is a bit cheeky, requires a bit of skill and if executed properly can be considered okay in most cases.
If you have some one infront of you that has a slower pace but a very heavy defense.
Sit behind at about 1-2 car legnths before a corner. don't miss your braking point and keep a small distance under heavy braking, towards the end of the braking point before the corner commences, release your brake slightly as to bump the other driver off their line running them wide as you take the inside.
Cross over pass:
This is a pretty common technique and requires a bit of phycology.
If you see some one lining up to take a dive down the inside, hold your line steady, this will encourage them further. More often than not the other driver will be focused on your car and not the braking point.
In this scenario you should brake as late as possible while maintaing a normal driving line.
Most of the time the other driver will still attempt a dive over take causing them to run wide and open up the inside, casually follow your normal driving line and you will be an additional 1 second or so infront taking advantage of the other drivers over confidance.
Owning the inside:
If you are on the inside of another driver 1/4-1/2 of a car legnth infront then by rights you have ownership of the corner. if the other drivers wishes to then challenge you for the position on the outside, don't feel bad for giving them a little "no chance buddy" bump with your front door.
Risk evaluation: If you are in the other position as the above, another car is on your inside and 1/4-1/2 car legnth infront, it's in your best interest the majority of the time to brake a bit early and leave room for the other drivers error. More often than not the inside lane driver will expect you to battle the position on the outside and focus some of his/her attention on your car with less on the road, by giving them a little room you are heavily reducing the risk of an accident. and in some cases the Cross over pass technique can be applied.
Intimidation: In some cases you may come across a driver that is equal to or very close to your pace, in this instance overtaking can be tricky, let them know you want to get passed.
Duck out to the inside before a corner and back behind them, give them a slight bump down a straight, give them the impression that you are insane, a rebel without a cause. sit right up the ass down as much as possible, their attention will be drawn to their mirror. and sooner or later they will make a mistake, whether it be braking late to avoid an accident or simple thinking that "I'd rather let this person passed than my race be ruined"
Note
These views are how I drive, I'm pretty respectful to other drivers on the track, but in some cases when a person is being an obvious dick I don't feel bad about pit manouvering them into a wall.
I'd like to add that I love to use this technic to melt down the tires of the car who is trying to defend it's position and the just overtake them when they can't mantain a normal braking point
I use all of those overtaking techniques, but by far, my favourite is the Crossover pass
why i think that late braking is bad but i still use it so much ... i like your style agressive but still careful... but not too much ... somehow brings my first karting years to my mind.
The "Bump Pass" is not good overtaking, it's a desperate act of someone that doesn't have the talent to pass legitimately, but rather childishly thinks that they should be able to anyway. Sometimes you cannot pass, it's a fact of motor racing.
If a series allows it then all is fair, but it still makes the bumper look very lacking in skill.
Not if excuted properly, ramming some one off the road is bad form, If some one is clearly being a stubbon prick and slowing down your race I don't see any issue with running them wide to get passed.
The bump pass is not a desperate skill lacking manouver, quiet the oppisate actually. and if you can master this technique both cars will not have damage, no car will be out of the race or on their roof and you will gain a position. with a 1-2 second lead.
Stubborn? You mean like someone who is defending their position well?
Isn't that just racing?
The problem I have with this sort of move is that there is no defence against it. Being behind is actually an advantage because you get to shove the car ahead out of the way, far better to be the bumper than the bumped.
Just because there might be little or no damage, and nobody actually off the road, doesn't mean that you aren't simply ramming your way past a car that you didn't have the ability to pass properly.
There is a clear cut difference between someone that is defending their position and someone blatently blocking you from getting passed despite the obvious pace difference.
I don't have the time or the patience to sit behind a slow racer whom is purposly holding me back, while I wait for a opening as the race leader gains a larger gap.
And in regards to your statement about not having a defense against it, that is untrue. By mastering a technique such as this you can anticipate if some one is going to use it on you. move a car width over to the inside just before the braking point or simply let the other person passed, unless you are trolling on a demo server there is no reason to defend heavily against some one much faster than you other than to piss the faster driver off.
Appropriate techniques should be applied at the appropriate time, if you show absolute gentlemen like respect to all other road uses despite of their actions againt you. You will seldom win a race.
We obviously have a difference of opinion. For me, if it's a race for position then I don't care how much of a "speed difference" there is. It's a race for position, I never expect to be handed a position, and would never concede one easily unless it benefited me to do so. This "i have the right to be ahead" stuff is just total nonsense tbh. The car in front has the right to be there and you have to find a way past fairly. Bumping them into a corner too fast is not fairly. If you're that much faster you should be able to get past easily, if you can't then too bad for you, it's second place instead of first. "That's racing!"
There is no defense against it. If you're close and I'm defending a position in such a way that is posing you a problem to get past, then I'm already on the inside. If you decide to follow me into the corner on that line and then let off the brakes to "bump" me, what can I do about it? Brake harder? Nope.
I don't care how you sugar coat it, it's a rubbish dirty move. I hate to see touring car drivers do it. It only makes them look bad themselves, but it does happen, I just don't think you should put it in your "good overtaking" category.
Lmfao you don't even have to do all that to intimidate. Just set some fast laps from the back of the pack and make airio go nuts and everyone will file right out your way. Or at least that's happens to me
Bumping people out of the way because you're not patient is no way to drive a race. If someone is blocking then take it up with the league's admin - you can't mete out your own natural justice. If you're quicker then you'll find a way past. If you're just pickup racing then it doesn't matter where you finish, so still no need to cheat your way past.
What you'll also probably find if you review your replays is that the person who had the cheek to be ahead of you in the race and not want to be overtaken was just driving defensively - how dare they!
The techniques I have listed are not for everyone.
My driving style has evolved into what it is today over many years of racing, if you don't like it well then quite frankly I don't care.
