Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Brian Barnhart would disagree though, just ask Helio about that.

Surely if you've lost the inside line and you can see somebody going up the inside, the smart thing to do is to back off? Yes, he did appear to divebomb into the corner, but by the same token Grosjean was putting the car where it shouldn't have been, so they're both at fault.

Holding your line isn't "putting your car where it shouldn't be", though. Holding your line is predictable and safe. Doing what Maldonado did is dickish and un-safe.

Quote from BlueFlame :

If you're holding the outside and someone runs you off the track violently enough to break your steering arm then the chances are it was an unfair move.

You're missing the point. You are looking at this as an internet expert where there is only right and wrong; black and white.

You have the luxury to pontificate. Grosjean is out of the race. Even if it had been a penalty for Maldonaldo he'd get a drive through but Grosjean would still have been out of the race.

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

You're missing the point. You are looking at this as an internet expert where there is only right and wrong; black and white.

You have the luxury to pontificate. Grosjean is out of the race. Even if it had been a penalty for Maldonaldo he'd get a drive through but Grosjean would still have been out of the race.

I understand what you're saying, but the moment you back off for another driver then you are beaten phsycologically.

Eitherway it's by chance that Grosjean is out of the race. There's a multitude of scenarios where they both get around that corner side by side no problem.

Unless you back off so that you live to fight another day and re-take the position at the following corner/lap.

Maldonado drove REALLY well today, and raced brilliantly. One tiny mistake spoilt it at the end, and it was a tiny mistake.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I understand what you're saying, but the moment you back off for another driver then you are beaten phsycologically.

So which is it, drive to not be defeated psychologically and cause a crash (as Hamilton gets criticised for a lot), or lift off, get beaten psychologically, and stay in the race and have another chance to pass?

You simply can't drive flat out and not back off at all however, not in karts, not in F1, not in BTCC or any form of motorsports when there's other people on the track, you may trot out the 'Oh but I'm still unbeaten pyschologically' line when the stewards want to talk to you but I thinkt hey'd take a very dim view of it if you caused a crash while not backing off. (Or conversely, by divebombing and expecting the other driver to back off)

EDIT: I was impressed by Kimi today, especially his radio.

I wouldn't blame Grosjean for the incident and I wouldn't nessecarily blame Maldonado, but to me the blame lays more on Maldonado, if you make a pass it should be clean. He knew Grosjean was on the outside but I could understand someone not expecting a car to be around the outside of them.

Grosjean cant make his car disappear

Quote from IsaacPrice :

Grosjean cant make his car disappear

My thoughts too.

Suprisingly good performances by Williams, Sauber & STR. Shame we didn't get to compare Räi's and Grosjean's race pace. Lame safety car, superb last lap

lol´d at the last lap, was very funny

Quote from IsaacPrice :

Grosjean cant make his car disappear

By not lifting, he disappeared from the results.

Quote from tristancliffe :

By not lifting, he disappeared from the results.

Wow that was a clever come-back. I am in awe.

Just seen it again on the BBC, and Grosjean tried to squeeze him and then turned in on him a bit on exit. Not Maldonado's fault, he can't just disappear.

Indeed, a wider entry would have helped Romain.

But, instead of arguing, what did we learn?

McLaren super quick and turned their tyres on much quicker. More downforce from their new rear setup?

Red Bull not as bad as Saturday seemed to indicate. Webber and Vettel seem much more even; in fact, during respective clean air periods Webber had better pace, and didn't lose it anywhere. Poor start though. Vettel impressed in his racecraft. I have a feeling that they have more to learn from their new exhaust setup as they were changing bits from Friday to Saturday.

Mercedes were encouraging; lots of pace and decent downforce. FW duct is very clever - probably! Looks like the DRS exposed holes that are fluidic switches rather than intakes and they use that pressure change to stall the front wing. Schumi in the mood!

Alonso - brilliant.

Ferrari - in a bit of a mess. No traction which killed their tyre life.

A point on Merc, I felt Rosberg was making the situation they were in look worse than it actually was. Nico, again, never looked like doing good things during the race. I suspect Michael might have managed 5th here, as up until the lap before his retirement, where his oil pressure was going away, he was actually going pretty well. Not as far off as last season. Could be interesting in Malaysia.

Grosjean is probably used to it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8a4JU4Pu-s

Quote :

Just seen it again on the BBC, and Grosjean tried to squeeze him and then turned in on him a bit on exit. Not Maldonado's fault, he can't just disappear

http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1332085153 I think it's quite clear it wasn't Grosjean at fault. (taken from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxf0l8lsSUI)

Funny, I make the same move on LFS and that was a penalty no problem.

Rosberg was dissapointing to be honest and Massa is just awful!

Massa picked up where he left off last year. The guy just cant pass / defend without turning into them.

If you watch the replay, you'll see that Maldonado's car snaps loose mid-corner and he has to correct, which puts him wide enough to smack into Grosjean. Not the best driving, but he clearly didn't do it intentionally.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

If you watch the replay, you'll see that Maldonado's car snaps loose mid-corner

I'd say it snaps more on the exit, which could also be seen as an intentional correction to go even wider (see pic from englishlord) and push Grosjean off track.

PS. If Grosjean got off the throttle, Maldonado would have gone offtrack. Fortunatly for him, Grosjean was there to push him back on track

Going by the picture alone it's Maldonados fault, but I didn't notice him making any oversteer correction. Will watch BBC highlights later though so I'll find out.

I say it was Maldonado's fault, but I don't think he did it on purpose... I think he just ran out of talent.

You can lay blame without things being intentional.

Should Grosjean have backed off? Maybe... but that's really, really easy to say from here, and not from in the car at a split second.

Quote from englishlord :

Grosjean is probably used to it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8a4JU4Pu-s



http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1332085153 I think it's quite clear it wasn't Grosjean at fault. (taken from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxf0l8lsSUI)

It looks different from Grosjean's car though. He adds a bit more lock when Maldonado is still there. It's really a racing incident more than anything.

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

I say it was Maldonado's fault, but I don't think he did it on purpose... I think he just ran out of talent.

I've disliked him ever since he intentionally wacked Hamilton in Spa Qualy last year, but to be fair to him he had a good race but any talent you have will be overlooked when you do the stupid shit you do when you run people off the road or intentionally make contact with them.

Violent aggression is a lack of mental control. Besides Maldonado looks like the kind of guy you'd find beating a guy for drug money, just so happens he's from Venezuela too. :P

Fault doesn't come into it. It's a racing incident. Neither were at fault. But it was avoidable, although that doesn't imply guilt or blame (it's motor racing, not a water treatment facility).

I'd put Maldonado as 2nd driver of the day, behind Button. Vettel was good, Alonso flattered the Ferrari, but he was still being pressured by a Williams (which may prove to be btter over the season, but hard to say after this race really)... A few other brilliant drives too - Vergne, Ricciardo especially as actual/virtual rookies.

Edit: Remember that Hamilton drove into Maldonado as well at Spa. And lots of drivers (over 50% I'd say) have purposely driven into other drivers at some point...