Quote from J@tko :

But surely if their tyres deteriorate faster the rubber has to go somewhere?

Have all cars race with side-mounted hoovers that sweep the marbles into the vehicle, which are then burned to generate extra hp.

One thing that really impress me over the weekend is Bruno Senna. He has been driving pretty decently over the last two GPs, out-raced Maldonado and had some impressive overtaking moves. I am starting to think maybe it wasn't such a bad idea for Williams to sign him.

Agreed on Senna. He's making the most of his chance this season.

It's not just the f1 tires you need to worry about when talking about marbles. Usually there are other racing series racing on the track before the F1 race which also create part of the marble problem.

I'm really chuffed to see Williams doing better this year, remains to be seen whether they can keep up development on that car for the whole of the season though. Fingers X'd.

Quote from J@tko :

Personally I can't remember the last time I saw so many marbles at a race, although maybe I've not been looking too hard

At least we're talking about rubber marbles, rather than rock marbles you can find on tracks like Sentul. In one of the GP2 Asia Series races some years ago, drivers had their helmets and cars damaged by gravel and debris on the track. They were basically large, slow-flying bullets. :yikes:

Quote from Juzaa :

I doubt Pirelli was asked to design tires that make driving outside the racing line impossible

Personally, I don't like the way Pirelli designed the tires. Bridgestone's and Michelin's tires didn't create anything like these marbles so can't Pirelli make tires that wear out normally?

Pirelli was asked to create a tire that deteriorated faster. Every single tire manufacturer can do that. Bridgestone and Michelin were not interested and Pirelli was given a shot at it. Making bad tires isn't that hard, Bridgestone refused because it would've hurt their pride so it's really not that much of an achievement you make it sound like.

Of course, the marbles off the racing line are a biproduct of being a deteriorating tyre but I don't think it's possible to create a tyre that deteriorates without shedding solid parts of the tyre.

You're right any tyre company could have done what Pirelli did, but as you said they didn't want to hurt their pride. That's why Pirelli deserve credit because they've made the tyre that F1 wanted when others refused.

As others have said, the Pirelli tyre has made for great racing so far, the marbles off line haven't really stopped overtaking, so to use that as an arguement against Pirelli is a bit false. You'll find where there are the most marbles is on corners that there's only one line (primarily high speed corners) that you wouldn't see overtaking on anyway.

Quote from N I K I :

Looks like people generally agree with what I had thought, are they retarded too?

Yes. If you say 'I won't buy Pirelli tyres for my road car, because they will fall apart like in F1' then yes. You're a retard.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Yes. If you say 'I won't buy Pirelli tyres for my road car, because they will fall apart like in F1' then yes. You're a retard.

What an ignorant thing to say. You obviously have no idea how much effect it has on casual fans, which are majority. And who goes insulting people like that... I'd much appreciate if you kept your thoughts to yourself when they tend to be so vulgar, aiigt.

Well if they rubber up the track the wear will decrease and it will become more predictable, you can't really win.

Quote from N I K I :

What an ignorant thing to say. You obviously have no idea how much effect it has on casual fans, which are majority. And who goes insulting people like that... I'd much appreciate if you kept your thoughts to yourself when they tend to be so vulgar, aiigt.

Of course it's an ignorant thing to say. Casual fans are ignorant people.

Honestly, people who are casual F1 fans won't give a shit what brand of tyres go on their car because they see a tyre as a tyre. Just like they probably see all cars as the same.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Of course it's an ignorant thing to say. Casual fans are ignorant people.

Honestly, people who are casual F1 fans won't give a shit what brand of tyres go on their car because they see a tyre as a tyre. Just like they probably see all cars as the same.

If that were true the advertising spend on F1 would be a hell of a lot lower than it is just now. You think large corporations are spending hundreds of millions of dollars collectively each year just to target a few hundred thousand die-hard F1 fans?

Well, it's certainly true for me, at least.

I go for whatever's cheap and rated well enough. I can't conceive of advertising really having any effect on me re: tire choice for my street car.

(Coincidentally, my car is currently shod with Pirellis, though they came on it when I bought it 2 years ago.)

Yeah but you're not an easily influenced kid with his mum's old car and some money to waste.

Quote from amp88 :

If that were true the advertising spend on F1 would be a hell of a lot lower than it is just now. You think large corporations are spending hundreds of millions of dollars collectively each year just to target a few hundred thousand die-hard F1 fans?

But in regards to tyres, it's true. People who are casual F1 fans, don't really care for cars in general so for them tyre performance isn't even thought about when buying rubber.

Quote from BlueFlame :

But in regards to tyres, it's true. People who are casual F1 fans, don't really care for cars in general so for them tyre performance isn't even thought about when buying rubber.

So they go to get new tyres (from Kwik Fit or wherever) and the they get offered a choice of 5 brands of similarly priced tyre. Pirelli are in F1 because they hope the person picks the Pirellis. It must work, too, or else they (and numerous other tyre companies through the decades) wouldn't do it.

Quote from amp88 :

So they go to get new tyres (from Kwik Fit or wherever) and the they get offered a choice of 5 brands of similarly priced tyre. Pirelli are in F1 because they hope the person picks the Pirellis. It must work, too, or else they (and numerous other tyre companies through the decades) wouldn't do it.

I forget the term, but basically it's like photographic/subliminal messaging, You see a list of 5 brands, and you have only heard of 1, you'll pick that one. It has nothing to do with the product itself it's just to do with what an average person remembers because the average people are who you make the most money from.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I forget the term, but basically it's like photographic/subliminal messaging, You see a list of 5 brands, and you have only heard of 1, you'll pick that one. It has nothing to do with the product itself it's just to do with what an average person remembers because the average people are who you make the most money from.

Brand Recognition...

Quote from BlueFlame :

casual F1 fans won't give a shit what brand of tyres go on their car because they see a tyre as a tyre. Just like they probably see all cars as the same.

..is why this is false (from Pirelli's point of view).

BlueFlame seriously you tarded yourself.

Quote from NSX_FReeDoM :

One thing that really impress me over the weekend is Bruno Senna. He has been driving pretty decently over the last two GPs, out-raced Maldonado and had some impressive overtaking moves. I am starting to think maybe it wasn't such a bad idea for Williams to sign him.

And still the interviewers ask more questions about his uncle than his racing. :banghead:

Quote from N I K I :

BlueFlame seriously you contradicted yourself.

Yea, I did in a way, because I said to average people a tyre is a tyre but they would pick a brand if they knew it but that's the point. If they weren't subjected to Pirelli branding they probably would never have heard of them.

So they are choosing tyres based on brand recognition (thanks amp) rather than any other reason.


Of course Amp, Pirelli are hoping that their name being put out there in the world most loved sport will increase sales.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Yea, I did in a way, because I said to average people a tyre is a tyre but they would pick a brand if they knew it but that's the point. If they weren't subjected to Pirelli branding they probably would never have heard of them.

So they are choosing tyres based on brand recognition (thanks amp) rather than any other reason.


Of course Amp, Pirelli are hoping that their name being put out there in the world most loved sport will increase sales.

It will. Are you seriously questioning the effect of advertising a brand in a sport viewed by millions of people?

Of course it works. Every brand in f1 is spending stupid money because it works. Not just on the "average person", but on everyone, to varying extents.

Quote from sinbad :

It will. Are you seriously questioning the effect of advertising a brand in a sport viewed by millions of people?

Of course it works. Every brand in f1 is spending stupid money because it works. Not just on the "average person", but on everyone, to varying extents.

All I was saying is that anyone who sees F1 tyres designed to degrade, create marbles and then basically assume the road tyres Pirelli make are the same is a retard.

Of course any kind of sport marketing works. You get your name on the right people and with or without success in the sport you can gain alot of sales and product interest.

Quote from J@tko :

But surely if their tyres deteriorate faster the rubber has to go somewhere?

Stick onto the race track such as Goodyear designs their tires to do in almost series that I've seen them supply tires for (heck the rubber build up on the prefered line could even make two groved racing a little more possible).

Rubber that flakes off in very small pieces so that thye blow mostly off the track (wouldn't be as much of an issue as what rubber "gravel" is).

There's alot of different options.