Yeah well..

Isnt it the people who continously buy the exact same shi* ...? You cannot really say that the engine behind CoD has changed during the years. It's about the same, running around with a gun, shooting targets.

Changing story lines, doing some graphical updates and thats about it.

--
So wait a minute.. Updating tire physics actually makes sense?

Well.. Yes.. If the content bit is up to par with today's standards. Which isn't. Lack of track environments is the biggest problem (not combo's).

Quote from cargame.nl :

An different approach is only possible if there is an approach at all.

Lately, I get the idea that there is not really a tactic.

The Scirroco got postponed 3.5 years ago.. How long does it actually take before this tire physics thing gets postponed?

Strategy, not tactics. And it's your perception. Unless you're regularly having lunch with Scavier, you are just speculating.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Updating tire physics actually makes sense?

The physics are flawed and majority of skilled players and real drivers agree. And either way the bottom line is still the same. It's their game. They'll make it what they want to, the same any other engineer or artist would his or her work.

Quote from Breizh :

Strategy, not tactics. And it's your perception. Unless you're regularly having lunch with Scavier, you are just speculating.

Right... It's a strategy to let a complete community stay in the dark for almost 4 years. No testing at all if the headed direction is working in practice.

To understand this strategy there is more needed then just some lunches. We have that stuff legally in our country.

Just wait until Eric sees this thread and rages.

Quote from edge3147 :

......GBP EUR USD CAD AUDYEN
S1 £ 12 € 14.92 $ 18.39 $ 19.08 $ 18.95 ¥ 1446
S2 £ 24 € 29.84 $ 36.77 $ 38.17 $ 37.91 ¥ 2892
rates provided by the International Monetary Fund

Those are the current prices for S1 and S2. I know this has been said time and time before, but if there was a reduction in price due to the age of this game, there would be more interest in purchasing it.

Look at the USD prices. For BOTH those prices you can get much newer games that are more frequently updated for around those prices. I mean seriously, OVER half the cost of CoD MW3 ($60), Skyrim($60), and MANY more.

This is a perfect example of poor PR and poor marketing.

Well, that is your opinion, for me the game has payed off more than enough for all these years that i was around (still sometimes getting lost into it).

These 30€ are most well spent on a game ever... from my point of view. To calculate all those hours into some other monthly subscrided sim then i would be bunkrupted loong time ago...

In short: I got a lot more than i payed for.

I think you can count in some "small" expenses, like hosting of master server, lfsworld server with all the skin storage, forums licenses etc.

The price is right!

Someone who doesn't understand the entire gaming industry would say something like that.

The fact of the matter remains, LFS is a video game, nothing more, nothing less. You don't see LFS being used to train race drivers, nor do you see the fanfare and player base that other quality games have.

LFS is dying unless, from all of our complaints, the devs come and grace us with a response about the developments that have taken place since the last response they provided us over 6 months ago.

For an american you sound quite wise edge. I do miss being involved with all the test patch part of the sim myself. That was something special we had in this community, something very exciting. I believe that devs haven't taken this away from us just yet, even though we haven't had this pleasure for a while now. Honestly, I can't see test patches miss us around this Christmas. I can't be any more optimistic than that.

Quote from edge3147 :

herp derp

Go back to iRacing and enjoy new tyre physics which is so awesome and is veing used to train real racing drivers.

Quote from edge3147 :

Someone who doesn't understand the entire gaming industry would say something like that.

The fact of the matter remains, LFS is a video game, nothing more, nothing less. You don't see LFS being used to train race drivers, nor do you see the fanfare and player base that other quality games have.

If you've read devs posting at least a little bit, they have said many times, they are doing things their way. This is not usual gaming industry machinery, it's project of few men, who do it for living, yes, but also for fun, their own education, extending their horizons. I think you are having the wrong idea of this whole thing.

Quote from Kid222 :

If you've read devs posting at least a little bit, they have said many times, they are doing things their way. This is not usual gaming industry machinery, it's project of few men, who do it for living, yes, but also for fun, their own education, extending their horizons. I think you are having the wrong idea of this whole thing.

Which is why LFS does not have the user base nor the popularity that games who follow the industry standard do.

I do understand it's a 3 man team, but c'mon. Where did their energy go? They were updating this game like crazy in the beginning, now it seems as tho they have taken a more uncaring and unexcited approach.

Quote from edge3147 :

Which is why LFS does not have the user base nor the popularity that games who follow the industry standard do.

I do understand it's a 3 man team, but c'mon. Where did their energy go? They were updating this game like crazy in the beginning, now it seems as tho they have taken a more uncaring and unexcited approach.

You cannot expect 3 men to be full-time working on a software for 10 years, IMO

Quote from Flame CZE :

You cannot expect 3 men to be full-time working on a software for 10 years, IMO

Erm, yes you can. That's what software engineering people do. If you think otherwise and are a software engineer, you're in the wrong field.

Quote from edge3147 :

Which is why LFS does not have the user base nor the popularity that games who follow the industry standard do.

I do understand it's a 3 man team, but c'mon. Where did their energy go? They were updating this game like crazy in the beginning, now it seems as tho they have taken a more uncaring and unexcited approach.

You should re-read at least Scawens posts from last 3 years. You missed so much explanations to your question.

Quote from Kid222 :

You should re-read at least Scawens posts from last 3 years. You missed so much explanations to your question.

I understand the reasons scawen had posted, what I don't understand is why the lack of communication. I am not saying that he needs to release a unfinished product, but some periodic (3-6 month progress reports) news updates on the progress would be very reassuring to not only me, but I would bet the rest of the community would appreciate it too.

You can't expect people to not question why there has been nothing new added to the game since S2. Especially since they made the announcements about the new content they have worked on and completed (other than the tyre physics.) I can assure you that Rockingham is 100% completed and the Scirocco is close, if not already finished except for small changes once the tyre physics is completed. The car model and textures are not hard to complete, just look at the people who are adding new car models (even tho against LFS terms of use).

Withholding new content on the hopes of finishing the tyre physics just seems silly. Because when the new physics come out, all the WR's will be erased and all setups will be rendered useless anyway. Satisfy the people who have helped fund this "3 man project" for over 10 years and give us some sort of regular progress report, not once a year, or whenever they feel we have asked enough times.

edge3147: Well i would be with you on that one (the content delaying), but it somehow makes sense. If Scawen wants to perfect the tyre model and not release anything before, it's his call, we're doomed to the eternal waiting.
Progress reports were also explained before. Either there's not much of interesting things to report, in case of Eric's progress, there were some things said in his defense, can't remember now.
I know the content's probably ready to go (ROC, VWS) or close to release status, but that's it, nothing to be done here, since it's their way of work, as much as we might not like it.

You are correct in saying there is not much that we can, but what we can do, is voice our concerns on the website and forums they provide for this community. I am not trying to start a fight or instigate trolling, I am merely trying to discuss the current situation.

All we can do is wait. I have a feeling that the patch is close. (Well I had that feeling last summer too, whatever )

Quote from edge3147 :

Someone who doesn't understand the entire gaming industry would say something like that.

The fact of the matter remains, LFS is a video game, nothing more, nothing less. You don't see LFS being used to train race drivers, nor do you see the fanfare and player base that other quality games have.

LFS is dying unless, from all of our complaints, the devs come and grace us with a response about the developments that have taken place since the last response they provided us over 6 months ago.

I race in real life, and uses LFS (and other sims) to improve.

I meant on a wide scale use for training drivers. I use some techniques I learned from LFS in real life also, but LFS alone, is not enough. (not at it's current state anyway.)

Also, for the devs to take such a firm stance on finishing one thing before starting the other, after looking over the past new releases on lfs.net, i found that they have been hypocritical of themselves in holding this stance.

added Fri, Aug 21st, 2009 20:30
>New Tyre Physics

Quote :

We are pleased to announce that a new tyre physics model is currently in the testing and refinement stage.

added Mon, Sep 21st, 2009 17:30
>Rockingham coming to LFS
added Thu, Dec 11th, 2008 19:10
>Announcing VW Scirocco

Quote :

We know this will disappoint many of you who have waited a long time for the Scirocco, and we are sorry about that. We plan to fix the bugs and continue developing the Scirocco suspension and electronic control systems, to give you a good patch early in 2009.

So much for early 2009

Quote :

We have added the BMW Sauber F1.06 to the S2 license and will be releasing the VW Scirocco for the S1 license as free updates.

seems that is exactly what they did. They announced the tyre physics before rockingham, yet they completed rockingham before the physics.
They also were working on the Scirocco at the same time as well. 2 out of 3 things are finished now and we have not received anything.

how about an apology from the devs or the release of the Scirocco which is meant for S1 users. The tyre physics will change the feel of ALL cars, not just the Scirocco so with-holding S1 content for something that will affect all license holder seems very very misjudged.


Don't mean to rant on here, but it's very unpleasing to read that these updates are for people who have already paid for their license, yet they want to work on content that seems more geared towards preparing for S3.

I would much rather have another current license content update than receiving S3 at this point. I played demo for 4 years then upgraded to S2. I expected something more than this when i was reading about all the new shiny content to come soon.

Quote from edge3147 :

seems that is exactly what they did. They announced the tyre physics before rockingham, yet they completed rockingham before the physics.

They might have announced Rockingham after the tyre physics, that does not mean they had been working on it before. Moreover, this is what they say in the Rockingham announcement page:

Quote from Rockingham coming to LFS :

The opportunity to get access to Rockingham and permission to develop it for LFS came in 2008, through our contact at V1 Championship.

Quote from Flame CZE :

They might have announced Rockingham after the tyre physics, that does not mean they had been working on it before. Moreover, this is what they say in the Rockingham announcement page:

Touche, but why did you choose to leave out the most important sentences in that announcement?

Quote :

We realised that at some point we need to move onto the S3 license and it would be better for the community to be able to start using S3 content sooner rather than later.

A few lines down they also say this..

Quote :

We want to get Rockingham to you sooner rather than later, but we don't know what will come up between now and when it is ready for release.

The only thing that has come up between then and now, is they decided to change gears and work on a physics rework instead.

It is now later rather than sooner.

Please guys I'm sick of these posts.

Quote from CheerioDM :

Please guys I'm sick of these posts.

I am only trying to spark a discussion.