It would atleast show us they are doing something, right now its as if nothing is being done.
It would atleast show us they are doing something, right now its as if nothing is being done.
Not really it would only show you that the developer is still alive, he could tell you anything and you would only know the truth once the patch has been released.
Don't get me wrong id like to try the new physics aswell, but i don't deem another progress report to be useful.
For me they haven given me the greatest sim i have ever played and i don't really care how long this improvement will take.
I cannot understand why you complicate it so much. LFS is an effin old game, with way too outdated graphics and content.
The only 2 things left good in LFS are:
- Realism
- Great programming with special features you won't see anywhere else all together (custom autocross-camera, fully customizable hud and POV, conveniently-organized menus etc etc)
I don't wait for the new physics because, no matter how good they are, the game will remain OLD. Forza or GT you have mentioned may not be so realistic, but have so much content, real life cars, great graphics, great high quality tracks (real and fictional) etc etc.
I am S2 only since october but hell, I feel the money were well spent. Perfect stats stuff (lfsworld) with amazing features (watching live a race from a browser? even with mini virtual cars? great). So I could proudly quit LFS now with no "wasted money" logic.
Community and game updating are depended on each other. When a game has updated development, the community grows, and when the community grows the support is continuous, like LFS was back then, and like all the NEW games are now.
tl;dr: Scavier should have been working, for at least the last 3-4 years, on a sequel, with new graphics, new content, new physics etc. And yes, we should pay another 30$, because it would worth it and it would compete with very famous racers. Working on S3, physics and sciroccos on such an old game is so wrong.
The only 2 things left good in LFS are:
- Realism
- Great programming with special features you won't see anywhere else all together (custom autocross-camera, fully customizable hud and POV, conveniently-organized menus etc etc)
I don't wait for the new physics because, no matter how good they are, the game will remain OLD. Forza or GT you have mentioned may not be so realistic, but have so much content, real life cars, great graphics, great high quality tracks (real and fictional) etc etc.
I am S2 only since october but hell, I feel the money were well spent. Perfect stats stuff (lfsworld) with amazing features (watching live a race from a browser? even with mini virtual cars? great). So I could proudly quit LFS now with no "wasted money" logic.
Community and game updating are depended on each other. When a game has updated development, the community grows, and when the community grows the support is continuous, like LFS was back then, and like all the NEW games are now.
tl;dr: Scavier should have been working, for at least the last 3-4 years, on a sequel, with new graphics, new content, new physics etc. And yes, we should pay another 30$, because it would worth it and it would compete with very famous racers. Working on S3, physics and sciroccos on such an old game is so wrong.
I have no problem with paying for new content and waiting for them to be developed, but when you tell someone you will release already finished content "soon" and then don't release it after 4 yrs, it makes people skeptical.
I will always be an LFS fan, there is no doubt about it. I am not trying to bash LFS and the team that is working on it, I am merely trying figure out what is going on in terms of development. I can understand that the scirocco and rockingham where supposed to be a secret until they were ready for release, but the devs were not successful in doing that. They made the announcements and used the term soon to keep everyone at ease. Well after 4 years, soon, is no longer the proper term. The scirocco release would be a great way of showing their dedication the community and continued efforts at bringing new content. They could still work on the new tyre physics and then refine the scirocco after they have finished the tyre physics because either way, once the tyre phyics are done, the game is going to be forever changed. I would hate to have a completed project just to have it sit around for 4 years not being appreciated or admired. After all, they said the Scirocco is S1 License content.
I will always be an LFS fan, there is no doubt about it. I am not trying to bash LFS and the team that is working on it, I am merely trying figure out what is going on in terms of development. I can understand that the scirocco and rockingham where supposed to be a secret until they were ready for release, but the devs were not successful in doing that. They made the announcements and used the term soon to keep everyone at ease. Well after 4 years, soon, is no longer the proper term. The scirocco release would be a great way of showing their dedication the community and continued efforts at bringing new content. They could still work on the new tyre physics and then refine the scirocco after they have finished the tyre physics because either way, once the tyre phyics are done, the game is going to be forever changed. I would hate to have a completed project just to have it sit around for 4 years not being appreciated or admired. After all, they said the Scirocco is S1 License content.
Yes but still you would have such an old game, with better physics. Ok the better physics is a good update, but not enough to talk about a reborn community etc. I am pretty sure that even after the updates or whatever it's gonna be anyway, you will still see a peak ~1K players online on the lfs site. Of course I hope I guess wrong.
The devs did a great work and built such an awesome sim, why can't we have an overhauled sequel? Win-win for both the devs and the players.
Let's talk about something that actually could have and should been done by now. I'm patient and I respect devs dedication to perfection. However, how hard can it be to update FZR, FXR, FXO, RB4 and LX cars interiors in almost 4 years time since the rest of the cars were updated? It's a separated job from tire physics, which is as far as I know a job for different dev who only works on that sort of stuff. Where is the passion?
+1
Must be the heat.
LMAO
It's also as if something's being done but they don't want to keep teasing while they can't commit to any kind of release timeframe.
Why are you keep pretending that something is going on?
What makes you think that?
What makes you think that?
I didn't read the whole thread, and even if I did, I might be beating a dead horse here.
What I don't like is how people here defend the devs too much. Yes, they are a small team, and they can and should do things their way. But that shouldn't stop them from expanding their team if there is a need for that. They could recruit people which have same ideas as they have, the same passion etc. If a game hasn't progressed at all for many years (the game needs new physics), a expansion of team could actually be their only thing to save the game imo. I don't know the size of kunos's teamu, but in my view they have accomplished more in shorter time than LFS. They started with a game that was pretty much dead, then turned it into something with alot promise (FFB, physics). That's what bothers me, LFS is so far behind of some of these games, and I'm purely talking physics wise.
I mean, look at Natural Selection 2. The game was pretty much "dying" not too long ago, calling for pre-orders from customers, promising a game in alpha state, yet marketing it as a "beta" release. The game wouldn't be at where it is right now if the team hadn't expanded, because before team expansion, they were working for it for many years without any real progress.
I really don't see the reason of them not expanding their team. Because I'm sure there are more stories of how team expansion has saved a game.
What I don't like is how people here defend the devs too much. Yes, they are a small team, and they can and should do things their way. But that shouldn't stop them from expanding their team if there is a need for that. They could recruit people which have same ideas as they have, the same passion etc. If a game hasn't progressed at all for many years (the game needs new physics), a expansion of team could actually be their only thing to save the game imo. I don't know the size of kunos's teamu, but in my view they have accomplished more in shorter time than LFS. They started with a game that was pretty much dead, then turned it into something with alot promise (FFB, physics). That's what bothers me, LFS is so far behind of some of these games, and I'm purely talking physics wise.
I mean, look at Natural Selection 2. The game was pretty much "dying" not too long ago, calling for pre-orders from customers, promising a game in alpha state, yet marketing it as a "beta" release. The game wouldn't be at where it is right now if the team hadn't expanded, because before team expansion, they were working for it for many years without any real progress.
I really don't see the reason of them not expanding their team. Because I'm sure there are more stories of how team expansion has saved a game.
Pretending that nothing is going on?
It's not about need but doing what the F ever they want to. So clearly the time to add more manpower is not yet now, by their arbitrary. As far as we know anyway. If you ask cargameNL, Scavier are sunning in Brazil and only telecommuting from their tablets back at the beach side bar's WiFi hotspot every now and then, to keep up the pretense.
Put another way - maybe the "need" to have one more guy in the team is a negative net value at this point. Just like... The "need" to communicate programming and art WIP's is a net negative here and now.
Er.. duh. This is the LFS forum. You attack a game on it's forum and get annoyed when people defend it and it's dev team. What exactly do you expect?
Hmm, considering the Physics is LFS's biggest attraction, if you really think it is way behind, why are you wasting your time here?
Only to troll? how sad!
Go play the other games, and don't look back. From what you've said, LFS obviously has nothing to offer for you. Unless you don't really believe what you've said?
Are you a game developer with years of industry experience and empirical evidence to back up this assertion?
Or are you a game player with very limited understanding of the development process and the inherent inefficiencies of larger teams, who is just making stuff up to support a feeble argument?
I got a story! I'm self employed and ticking along steadily, could have expanded many times, bought more equipment, taken on staff, etc. and I couldn't be arsed. That would bring on a lot more responsibilities and hassles that I just don't want and, most importantly, that's my business and anyone telling me what I 'should' do with it can F off.
Got another one. Did some development with VDrift (open source race sim) some time ago, mostly to learn how race sims and 3d games in general work. If folks want x, y or z they are very welcome to grab a copy of that (or any other open source sim, there's quite a few) and make it happen. I would bet the LFS dev's would be happier helping folks get over challenges in something like that than being told what they 'should' do with their own work.
Wtf?!
Hello col, look at yourself first. Yoohoo!
Again, what development process?
There is NO development. There is zero evidence that you can say, hmm must be something going on! Nothin ...
I bought pcars this morning. There is a dedicated "what did the devs say button lately". Imagine that here? Blank page! .. Roflol. (sad).
.
Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. Gotcha.
You know this Roswell incident? It was a cover up!
Aliens are here.. Possibly your neighbors. They are not saying anything, but they are here. I'm tellin ya. Sometimes you see that flash in the sky? It's them. Making a signal.
Lets all look to the sky and wait for the next signal. And talk about it for another six months.
Aliens are here.. Possibly your neighbors. They are not saying anything, but they are here. I'm tellin ya. Sometimes you see that flash in the sky? It's them. Making a signal.
Lets all look to the sky and wait for the next signal. And talk about it for another six months.
You can't possibly know that. You have no idea what kind of advancements has Scawen done since the last update. The patch can be released tomorrow, next week... or next year.
You know, with people whose attitude is similar to yours around it's no wonder Scawen doesn't bother with any progress updates...
With 4 years of no progress it doesn't make a difference anyway does it?
And suddenly it's all my fault. I like that.
Running some racing servers every day (about the only left) .. Keep answering questions like ... "Why always the same track? Where is S3? What about the Scirocco? Any news about Rockingham?" ..
Yeah.. According to some LFS forum members they are reaaaaaalllly buussy with that. OK when? Well nobody knows, ask again in 4 years.
See, all you got is BS. In the colloquial sense. FUD.
Does it? Let's see:
1) after 4+n years LFS will see an update with new physics and a minimum of new content. Pretty much what you're clamoring for.
2) after 4+n years LFS will see no update. Pretty much what you're lamenting.
Is that "a difference"?
You like taking yourself for the center of the universe, then blaming others for ... you blaming yourself as a pretense for martyrdom... Just more contrived BS that's got nothing to do with the subject.
Servers running software that appeared out of nowhere. Unless it every little subroutine in the physics and subtexture in the art content had been spotlighted as WIP by the devs and dissected by the oh-so-even-keeled "community" -- then it exists. Otherwise "it's just vaporware". Even if it does eventually get released so upstanding "community members" like you can flaunt the righteousness of it all.
It's a parallel to this situation. Difficult for you to understand maybe.
Yes, answers do make a difference.
????
Where the hell is this coming from?
The problem is.. With you fanboys.. Is that you put someone in the center of the universe and like saying forever.. Hey! Don't touch my religion, he is coming back to earth. Nobody knows when. But he is coming.
Also going on for about 2012 years now.
All this bashing on cargame is sad, the cargame servers are the most popular race servers on LFS right now. I feel what cargame is saying. In 4 years of waiting for development to take place, we have seen 1 or 2 screenshots, but 0 test versions of said development. We have recieved a few updates, but those were very very minor in aspect.
It's a shame the devs don't take a few minutes to interact with the community that they built.
All in all, i think any sort of progress report would be progress at this point.
It's a shame the devs don't take a few minutes to interact with the community that they built.
All in all, i think any sort of progress report would be progress at this point.
No, see, it ain't parallel, not even in a parallel but backwards sense: you say that the absence of evidence for LFS development is proof that development is not happening - does not exist. You then take this principle and flip it round with Roswell as analogy as argument for absence of evidence being proof of existence, which is a different proposal entirely. You never took or read basic philosophy.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - that's an axiom and you don't need to take my word for it. Look it up yourself, or maybe think about it before repeating it backwards like that meant something.
PR is inconsequential to what really happens. Because last weekend's Barcelona GP or some private test at some racetrack had no press releases does not mean it did or didn't happen nor that work was or wasn't done, nor that progress was or wasn't made.
This whole argument of yours hinges on your personal dissatisfaction, your personal pet peeve that the devs aren't fulfilling your personal needs. This neediness is neither good nor bad on its own, but neither are the devs responsible for satisfying it. That ain't in the freakin contractual agreement when you handed over however many Euros S2 costs, nor does your own personal decision to start and maintain servers give you a seat on the freakin LFS design committee.
This you have totally backwards. You start with this dissatisfaction and from there seek to change how LFS is developed. That ain't how it is nor how it oughta be. It's the other way around: LFS is or isn't what floats your boat, and then whether you choose to keep boating in LFS waters is left for you to decide.
From you pulling outta nowhere that anything in LFS development, or lack thereof, is your fault... Or that this LFS situation would be resolved if we found who to blame. That ain't gonna do jack for moving LFS forward.
"Not even wrong." I'm no fanboy. The difference is I have bladder control. I know when I'm not in the bathroom... This forum, and for that matter any of the devs' PM mailbox and email and so on, aren't either.
There is no positive consequence from griping nonsensically like you are. So I don't do it. Despite the very real misgivings I have about lack of LFS updates.
----------------
Also, it's got to be said for the sake of balance here, that LFS updates are IMNSHO some of the best. Look them up, they should be on the main website. As clear and concise as the rest of LFS' aesthetics.
Then, consider the relativity of things here: how much is too much and too little? Is there a point where the amount of "updates" and other PR is disproportionately large WRT developments? Because at some point, all that was worth saying has been said. So.... LFS being as simple, as minimalistic a racing game as it is (and this is undeniably part of its unique appeal), just how much can you bloat the PR when you get to the point where the WIP... think of Sauron's "searchlight" Eye - Scawen can only focus on so many things at once... how much PR can you fill this "sacrilegious" void that's rubbing everyone the wrong way, when the WIP is tightly focused on something like physics? Something that's as PR-friendly as a long scroll of The Matrix green text.
Scavier are no fools. They would "release" info if there were such info worth not-keeping from the public, that hadn't been publicized already. How about this for an ACCURATE update: "Work continues as usual." Meanwhile some people perpetually complain how unfair it is that they get to twiddle their thumbs while someone in England has the nerve to take responsibility for wading thru an almost endless slog of physics coding problems that no one else would take responsibility for.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence - that's an axiom and you don't need to take my word for it. Look it up yourself, or maybe think about it before repeating it backwards like that meant something.
PR is inconsequential to what really happens. Because last weekend's Barcelona GP or some private test at some racetrack had no press releases does not mean it did or didn't happen nor that work was or wasn't done, nor that progress was or wasn't made.
This whole argument of yours hinges on your personal dissatisfaction, your personal pet peeve that the devs aren't fulfilling your personal needs. This neediness is neither good nor bad on its own, but neither are the devs responsible for satisfying it. That ain't in the freakin contractual agreement when you handed over however many Euros S2 costs, nor does your own personal decision to start and maintain servers give you a seat on the freakin LFS design committee.
This you have totally backwards. You start with this dissatisfaction and from there seek to change how LFS is developed. That ain't how it is nor how it oughta be. It's the other way around: LFS is or isn't what floats your boat, and then whether you choose to keep boating in LFS waters is left for you to decide.
From you pulling outta nowhere that anything in LFS development, or lack thereof, is your fault... Or that this LFS situation would be resolved if we found who to blame. That ain't gonna do jack for moving LFS forward.
"Not even wrong." I'm no fanboy. The difference is I have bladder control. I know when I'm not in the bathroom... This forum, and for that matter any of the devs' PM mailbox and email and so on, aren't either.
There is no positive consequence from griping nonsensically like you are. So I don't do it. Despite the very real misgivings I have about lack of LFS updates.
----------------
Also, it's got to be said for the sake of balance here, that LFS updates are IMNSHO some of the best. Look them up, they should be on the main website. As clear and concise as the rest of LFS' aesthetics.
Then, consider the relativity of things here: how much is too much and too little? Is there a point where the amount of "updates" and other PR is disproportionately large WRT developments? Because at some point, all that was worth saying has been said. So.... LFS being as simple, as minimalistic a racing game as it is (and this is undeniably part of its unique appeal), just how much can you bloat the PR when you get to the point where the WIP... think of Sauron's "searchlight" Eye - Scawen can only focus on so many things at once... how much PR can you fill this "sacrilegious" void that's rubbing everyone the wrong way, when the WIP is tightly focused on something like physics? Something that's as PR-friendly as a long scroll of The Matrix green text.
Scavier are no fools. They would "release" info if there were such info worth not-keeping from the public, that hadn't been publicized already. How about this for an ACCURATE update: "Work continues as usual." Meanwhile some people perpetually complain how unfair it is that they get to twiddle their thumbs while someone in England has the nerve to take responsibility for wading thru an almost endless slog of physics coding problems that no one else would take responsibility for.
I've stated myself recently - I don't even have a PC. My old one died, and right now I'm using a mac laptop.
What has that got to do with this discussion?
Me not having a PC doesn't suddenly validate all the whining, and petty demands from haters on this forum. If anything, it makes my point of view more valid. It proves that I'm no fan boy.
I am fascinated by the dev's philosophy, and by the approach Scawen has taken in implementing the physics, and for that reason, I'm very much looking forward to a new version of LFS - might be worth switching back to a PC then.
I am concerned that all the negative and hateful BS on this forum might be damaging the game and to the dev's motivation, so sometimes I challenge the people that bring that attitude here.
The fact that you're one of them is really surprising. You've done a lot for the community with your servers, and it really makes no sense to me that you would behave in a way that could damage LFS. It's definitely not going to help, that's for sure.
Maybe you could explain what you are trying to achieve by attacking LFS and its development team ?
ive stated multiple times im just having a discussion, you are the one attacking and throwing around accusations about us hating LFS.
Time for a different approach?
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