There are so many flaws in that rant it is incredible.
I'm not even talking about the tires, but the reasonings.

Hmm. Just wondering who will be driving at mclaren next year with Lewis?

Quote from Hyperactive :

Hmm. Just wondering who will be driving at mclaren next year with Lewis?

Jensen???

Very nice drive from Lewis!

Alonso made the "mistake" of driving vs Lewis and going for the win. Vettel was clearly only racing vs Alonso and Red Bull adjusted their strategy on that.

Great drive from Grosjean and mostly Perez (the pass on Rosberg and Massa, kekekeke), he really earned that podium!

All in all a fun race to watch again. Bit too much tyres and not enough hard racing for my opinion, but yeah.

Car isn't as much of a factor as it used to be, besides just because the tyres are rubbish doesn't mean its lack of Appeal.

F1 is about strategy just as much as racing and when it comes to strategy this year it allows the midfeild to go for wins, if you expect spec racing material then F1 isn't going to be for you.

Quote from Mustafur :

Car isn't as much of a factor as it used to be, besides just because the tyres are rubbish doesn't mean its lack of Appeal.

F1 is about strategy just as much as racing and when it comes to strategy this year it allows the midfeild to go for wins, if you expect spec racing material then F1 isn't going to be for you.

F1 is as spec racing now as it's ever been. Spec ECU, spec tyres, equalized engines etc...

Basically spec engines, and then the Cosworth.

The result was wrong. Fair play to Hamilton for maximising his strategy and doing what he had to do with the tools available.

But I can't help but feel the result should have been Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton at best. DRS makes passing at Canada too easy. I don't mind it when DRS allows the following car to make up the deficit so that they can TRY to pass into the following bend, but when following cars can just drive by I hate it.

But that's not Lewis' fault (for once ), so well done to him. I wonder what is up with Jenson's car? It's probably the driver with qualifying pace, but Jenson shouldn't drop BACK 6 places in a 'normal' race.

Well done to Perez and Grosjean as well. Great drives.

Quote from Intrepid :

F1 is as spec racing now as it's ever been. Spec ECU, spec tyres, equalized engines etc...

yet what do you compare it to?

Every other racing series is basically spec to the core apart from LMS and Moto GP.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The result was wrong. Fair play to Hamilton for maximising his strategy and doing what he had to do with the tools available.

But I can't help but feel the result should have been Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton at best. DRS makes passing at Canada too easy. I don't mind it when DRS allows the following car to make up the deficit so that they can TRY to pass into the following bend, but when following cars can just drive by I hate it.

But that's not Lewis' fault (for once ), so well done to him. I wonder what is up with Jenson's car? It's probably the driver with qualifying pace, but Jenson shouldn't drop BACK 6 places in a 'normal' race.

Well done to Perez and Grosjean as well. Great drives.

How could Alonso be first if he was overtaken in non DRS zones. Perez had him beat on the main straight before they even got to the DRS zone for example.

Once the tyres are off your a sitting duck.

DRS is still a work in progress, and I guess they will make DRS zone shorter still for next year. (If there is a next year thanks to Bernie for his whining in advance).

Quote from Cornys :

http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/07 ... ring-its-not-even-racing/

Sadly, as I was trying to get into F1 this year, I realized why I didn't care for it in the first place. Exactly this.

Man and car against man and car with a little help from the pit crew. That's racing. I'll watch V8 Super Cars, IndyCar, NASCAR, and BTCC even (if I get coverage of it), but F1, even with it's history and grandjure, isn't racing like I know it.

They make races artificially exciting by making the tires fall off quickly and allowing the airflow of the cars to be altered in the straight-aways and corners. The car is too much of a factor for my taste. Racing isn't as exciting without the human element and the racing incidents which the human element brings. The FIA doesn't seem to beleive that racing incidents are possible. There never should be an inccident because they restrict the drivers from defensive driving and fighting too hard for position (or they will ruin their tires)

F1's just not my taste right now because of what it is. Tap me if racing as I enjoy it is brought back to it (less strict stewards and removal of DRS at least) and I'll likely give it another try. Different strokes for different folks.

But you watch NASCAR which is staged and scripted to entertain the crowd?

Flawed logic.

Quote from Mustafur :

How could Alonso be first if he was overtaken in non DRS zones. Perez had him beat on the main straight before they even got to the DRS zone for example.

Once the tyres are off your a sitting duck.

Vettel couldn't pass him. Hamilton would have struggled a bit more to pass both of them with DRS. Which would have meant Perez and Grosjean would end up stacked behind the top three.

Sure, the result might have been the same, but it would have been brought about by racing, rather than just whizzing by on a straight. As I said, I don't mind DRS if it cancels out the dirty-air-effect, and gives the following car a chance at out-braking or out-manoeuvring his rival.

Obviously, this assumes that Alonso was leading, Vettel was second etc etc, which with my alternative DRS positions might not have been the case either.

FIA should consider having DRS zones at some tracks and on the others just normal racing. Just a few that come to my mind that never needed DRS, not even in days of supreme aerodynamics are Canada, Spa and Monza. Whilst Barcelona, Valencia or whatever really need it.

Quote from tristancliffe :

The result was wrong. Fair play to Hamilton for maximising his strategy and doing what he had to do with the tools available.

But I can't help but feel the result should have been Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton at best. DRS makes passing at Canada too easy. I don't mind it when DRS allows the following car to make up the deficit so that they can TRY to pass into the following bend, but when following cars can just drive by I hate it.

I do wonder how much you paid attention. The DRS was actually a hindrance to overtaking for much of the race, as the cars were so close together everyone had it and it was neutralized. If it wasn't for Nico being sleepy at the start, we'd have seen 0 overtakes at the start of the race because everyone had DRS and the lead car would get a gap exiting the final chicane that would do them for the rest of the lap because everyone else behind had to take it a bit easier in the chicane.

The only time we saw a DRS overtake was really a car on cold tyres v a car on warmer tyres, and quite honestly those overtakes would have happened regardless of DRS. Oh and at the end of the race when Ferrari and Seb fell off the cliff.

Just for the record, Vettel passed Alonso into the hairpin without the aid of DRS.

Alonso let Vettel pass at the hairpin, in order to DRS him back on the straight. His rears were so badly worn that even though he planned and executed it properly, he couldn't keep up in the corner exit.

DRS:
+ is good when it breaks upp a Trulli train
- when F1 becomes formula vee and its easier to overtake than to stay ahead
- when there are no overtake attempts except on the DRS stright.
This race should have had a shorter DRS zone.

Tyres: The good drivers can manage tyres better and score better. There is also excitement when the tyres go off and lots of overtakes on the last lap.
But there seams to be no way for the team to reliably calculate when the tyre will go off, which gives a lot of randomness to the strategies. I mean that if Ferrari had any clue, they would have pitted when Vettel did, when the cliff was reached it was already too late to pit.

Interesting to see how Button has switched luck with Hamilton.

Sidenote, Love how Schumie did a King Koba overtake on Koba. (sadly It was just a 2s clip I saw and I found no clips on the web)

Schumie never give up the victory----> DRS activated for whole race :shhh:

Unfortunately there's over 50 million hawk eyes...

Obviously the biggest problem with drs is that instead of giving more overtaking opportunities it is an automatic free pass most of the time. Press button - gain position.

Should not be really hard to fix. First remove drs from some tracks altogether. At least not allow its use during races. Track like canada should not need drs. Spa doesn't need it. Nor does Monza or interlagos. But on some other tracks like hungaroring, spain, australia or bahrain it is pretty much necessary simply because without drs there won't be any overtaking.

And then adjust the length of the zone to be so short that the overtaking car can barely get abreast when getting into the braking zone. With properly working drs we could have actual battles going on and overtaking would not be so farcically artificial.

Quote from Hyperactive :

And then adjust the length of the zone to be so short that the overtaking car can barely get abreast when getting into the braking zone. With properly working drs we could have actual battles going on and overtaking would not be so farcically artificial.

Each car has different set ups so it's hard to get the DRS working fairly. Some drivers hit the limiter while others don't. But then it's all about how the teams deal with it.

Quote from 91mason91 :

But you watch NASCAR which is staged and scripted to entertain the crowd?

Flawed logic.

Staged to entertain a crowd; yes it is. All motorsports are, but NASCAR is more so. The tracks are designed to allow spectators to see the whole track mostly (Why do you think that most of the tracks in NASCAR are tri-ovals or quad-ovals rather than perfect ovals?) and the cars are designed to look like what people see on an every day basis while still providing saftey and the highest quality racing possible.

Scripted though? I don't to see where that claim comes from. You simply couldn't script racing. It's not possible.

I'd rather just beleive that NASCAR doesn't fit what you like to see in a racing series. That is an acceptable reason to dislike it rather than falsely accusing it of falsehood (double negetive of sorts ).

IndyCar is not too much different from F1 and I continue to enjoy it because of it's relativly free racing rules and the way in which it is contested. The Rolex Sports Car Series I enjoy even though it is only on road courses because of the same reasons. All of the series which I named earlier I enjoy, and you picked out my main one to attack simply because you disagree with my point of view and likely have a strong distaste for it.

I know I likely offended your view of F1 though, so it is deserved that my favorite motorsport also to be attacked. I was simply stating what I disliked after giving the sport a fair chance. I should have chosen words which wouldn't have offended those who are stong fans of F1 or not have commented at all.

It's a forum though, everybody's going to give their thoughts invited or not. That's the fun of it all

Quote from PMD9409 :

There are so many flaws in that rant it is incredible.

I'm not even talking about the tires, but the reasonings.

I count one and that is in the changing of the airflow in straights and corners. That as you guessed was in reference to DRS. I was wrong as far as that goes to a degree. I thought DRS was given to everybody, not just cars which were behind another vehicle. This I was not up to speed on, but I am now.

But your main point is that you don't like artificial racing, something that NASCAR (your favorite racing series) has come to in the last 6-10 years. You also criticize the tire fall off and then once again mention NASCAR and IndyCar. You do realize NASCAR was at its all time high when the tire fell off over 2 seconds throughout a run correct? You also realize that IndyCar was great Saturday night at Texas because the average speed dropped 20mph over the course of a run due to tires wearing out?

Even though DRS can be seen as artificial, it makes F1 far less artificial than the other series you have posted (except maybe V8SC, but that's debatable). I can understand the issue with DRS (I'm not the biggest fan of it), I don't understand the issue with the tires, but the comparisons you have done kills your whole argument. Just doesn't make any sense to why you dislike it.

Quote from PMD9409 :

But your main point is that you don't like artificial racing, something that NASCAR (your favorite racing series) has come to in the last 6-10 years. You also criticize the tire fall off and then once again mention NASCAR and IndyCar. You do realize NASCAR was at its all time high when the tire fell off over 2 seconds throughout a run correct? You also realize that IndyCar was great Saturday night at Texas because the average speed dropped 20mph over the course of a run due to tires wearing out?

Even though DRS can be seen as artificial, it makes F1 far less artificial than the other series you have posted (except maybe V8SC, but that's debatable). I can understand the issue with DRS (I'm not the biggest fan of it), I don't understand the issue with the tires, but the comparisons you have done kills your whole argument. Just doesn't make any sense to why you dislike it.

I can't comment accuratly on the IndyCar race Saturday night because I wasn't able to watch anything more than the highlights of the race I'm afraid . I liked the instability that the cars had on the track more so than anything else as far as that race goes and it seemed as though the cars weren't stuck on the bottom line all race long. (I'm going to watch it fully on Youtube hopefully at some point this week)

I guess my beef with the tires (tyres :razz in F1 is the fact that when they wear off they just flat don't grip more so than making the cars oversteer.

I want the drivers to 'fight' the cars. I'd be happy with soft tires which wear off and lead to oversteer, or tires which are so hard they make the cars hard to handle. If the cars aren't moving around through the turns they aren't close enough to the limits of the drivers' ability. It's much more exciting that way.

I guess I should be a dirt racing fan the more I think about it

Quote from Cornys :

I can't comment accuratly on the IndyCar race Saturday night because I wasn't able to watch anything more than the highlights of the race I'm afraid . I liked the instability that the cars had on the track more so than anything else as far as that race goes and it seemed as though the cars weren't stuck on the bottom line all race long.

I guess my beef with the tires (tyres :razz in F1 is the fact that when they wear off they just flat don't grip more so than making the cars oversteer.

I want the drivers to 'fight' the cars. I'd be happy with soft tires which wear off and lead to oversteer, or tires which are so hard they make the cars hard to handle. If the cars aren't moving around through the turns they aren't close enough to the limits of the drivers' ability. It's much more exciting that way.

I guess I should be a dirt racing fan the more I think about it

You are contradicting yourself so much.

BTW the IndyCar times went from 218avg to 197avg over the course of the run. That is 3 seconds per lap. They were all saying that the car was either understeering or oversteering massively throughout the run. They couldn't exactly push it, just for the first few laps if you are out in clean air.

Also, the car is the one hitting the cliff, not exactly just the tires. Grosjean went nearly the same distance as Alonso on tires (two laps less) and he was the fastest car on track (besides Perez who had 30 lap super softs) at the end of the race.

Even though dirt racing is still very pure here, there are also quite a bit of limitations and the car comes into play just as much if not more than other forms of racing. So don't get your hopes up quite yet. You just seem to be wanting some fantasy series, and comparing it to F1 (or anything for that matter) is just unfair.