Quote from MAGGOT :

Geez.. Did Dean Evans have 20 more horsepower than the rest of the field or was everyone else only using half throttle?

Yeah, that was crazy how he gained on the lead car, which was way ib front...

Quote from Whisper :

That's the point I'm trying to make. The speeds in the game seem correct, as far as pure numbers go, but since most tracks are so very wide and offer very little stationary reference, driving feels slower than it is. Hence why I propose narrower tracks.

Yes, but the speed perception is probably like it would be IRL on such tracks. On a wide open track, you feel like youre going slower than you actually are. This is not isolated in the game, this is a real phenomenon. We should not make tracks narrower to make us feel like we are going faster. The tracks are fine the way they are.

Quote from MAGGOT :

Yes, but the speed perception is probably like it would be IRL on such tracks. On a wide open track, you feel like youre going slower than you actually are. This is not isolated in the game, this is a real phenomenon. We should not make tracks narrower to make us feel like we are going faster. The tracks are fine the way they are.

Consider that in real life you have other clues. Wind noise, vibration, true depth perception, larger FOV, and g-forces. To compensate for that you either have to speed up the cars and scale the physics model (probably not do-able), or make narrower tracks with side detail and/or walls (very do-able).

The tracks are just fine as they are.

I guess also you do have to draw the line somewhere too. After all these tracks are used for online races where there is ALWAYS a degree of lag between the players existing. Sometimes it's nice to have a bit of space to spread out a bit, or to go past someone a bit wide for safety.

Having said that I don't think the tracks are overly too wide. South City, like any big city has wide streets with 4+ lanes (2 in each direction), KY AS WE are all pretty good too, BW may be slightly, but that's how it's always been and thats why we love it.

Fern bay gets pretty narrow at times, I think the tracks we have are a good combination. Narrow them down too much and the quality of the online racing would suffer

The racing line is one cars width in the position fastest for the best lap time... how much narrower do you want!

Seriously though, I think the tracks are good widths, although I would appreciate one with the narrow style and changing elevation of bathurst, but there'll always be things different people wish for.

The speed/width thing is really noticable on a drag strip, looks absolutely massive when you're lined up, but once you hit the loud pedal it soon feels real narrow!!

I also think the tracks are fine as they are. I just hope the new tracks aren't all made to specifically accomodate the BF1, i.e wide and smooth. More tracks like Oulton and Cadwell please.

Quote :

Sure you can drive a BF1 or FO8 around Fern Bay, but that's what I would call unrealistic because that would never happen IRL.

F1's race at Monaco, and that's a very tight track.

I don't think the impression of speed is due to the width of the track but instead to the level of detail in the surface of the track itself and how low your point of view is, speeds look faster in a go-kart than a SUV. Some examples of the sensation of speed:

What 180+mph looks like with a motorcycle on 2 lane road:
busasr.wmv

World Racing 1 (very animated, but you get the idea):
wr1c14.wmv

NFS8 street x, looks fast from bumper view, slow from chase view:
n8sx.wmv

Quote from Whisper :

Yes, they may have a large footprint, but usually when you say a car is huge it means it’s also tall, like a semi or an SUV. As I already said, F1 car size does nothing to make the track seem narrower, because they're so low to the ground. An F1 car could be a mile long, but your view of the track would still be the same as if it were no longer than a lawnmower.

Well SUVs aren't a typical race car, yes in comparison to HGVs an F1 car may be tiny but in comparison to most racing cars they are big things, the fact it has such a long wheelbase makes a huge difference to how wide and fast a track it needs, F1 only run at Monaco because of the glamour associated with it, they'd never like a new street circuit and I have a feeling you'll find those roads are no longer the average roads, probably a better and smooth road surface than normal just for the F1 cars to keep the teams happy.

In terms of height a Can Am car maybe pretty low but you wouldn't describe it as anything less than enormous would you? Likewise for Cobras, Vipers etc.

Quote from ajp71 :

F1 only run at Monaco because of the glamour associated with it.

They also run a street course in Melborne, but I don't know how tight that one is. F1's only weigh 1300lbs (with driver), is the wheelbase and track width really that big compared to other race cars?

Quote :

In terms of height a Can Am car maybe pretty low but you wouldn't describe it as anything less than enormous would you? Likewise for Cobras, Vipers etc.

What about a Radical, or a Caterham? Cobras (the ones based on AC-bristols, not the Mustang) are pretty small.

Quote from JeffR :

They also run a street course in Melborne, but I don't know how tight that one is.

There a very few roads that are as wide and smooth as those roads round Melbourne hapen to be

Quote :

is the wheelbase and track width really that big compared to other race cars?

The track is not that wide but they have a very long wheelbase, that soon became apparant at the Goodwood FoS, they certainly have a longer wheelbase than any of the older GP cars, which look small in comparison, if you've ever seen an F1 car close up next to other racing cars you'll soon see what I mean.

Quote :

What about a Radical, or a Caterham?

Yes they are small cars, which is also why the Radical SR8 is so quick round Cadwell, faster than an F3 car to be exact

Quote :

Cobras (the ones based on AC-bristols, not the Mustang) are pretty small.

Pardon? They're pretty physically big in terms of width and of course having a small block or in some cases a big block does add to that feeling of size, there's barely enough room when they're being man handled round Donnington let alone a tight circuit like Cadwell.

1st post
Excellent sim by the way
What field of view do you race with , i find it really affects my corner entry speed.Using 100% at mo

Quote from ajp71 :

Well SUVs aren't a typical race car, yes in comparison to HGVs an F1 car may be tiny but in comparison to most racing cars they are big things, the fact it has such a long wheelbase makes a huge difference to how wide and fast a track it needs, F1 only run at Monaco because of the glamour associated with it, they'd never like a new street circuit and I have a feeling you'll find those roads are no longer the average roads, probably a better and smooth road surface than normal just for the F1 cars to keep the teams happy.

In terms of height a Can Am car maybe pretty low but you wouldn't describe it as anything less than enormous would you? Likewise for Cobras, Vipers etc.

Which doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm talking about.

Quote from super six :

1st post
Excellent sim by the way
What field of view do you race with , i find it really affects my corner entry speed.Using 100% at mo

Around 90 usually. But I'm starting to go narrower lately, because even though large FOV offers better feel of speed, narrow FOV offers larger view of detail in front.

Quote from Whisper :

Around 90 usually. But I'm starting to go narrower lately, because even though large FOV offers better feel of speed, narrow FOV offers larger view of detail in front.

Cheers for the reply

Quote from Whisper :

Which doesn't really have anything to do with what I'm talking about.

Yes it does apart from the fact of how fast things are flying past you a physically large car needs more room and therefore makes the track seem narrower.

I use a 60 degree FOV but I also use TrackIR which means that I can look around very easily so the relatively constrained field of view isn't a problem.

Quote from ajp71 :

Yes it does apart from the fact of how fast things are flying past you a physically large car needs more room and therefore makes the track seem narrower.

What makes the track seem narrower or wider is where your POV is in relation to the track, and not the size of the car you're in. Especially not it's length.

I think it does maybe not in the NFS kind of sense but in a subconsious mental way.

I'm sorry, what? You lost me there.

The size of your car doesn't make it feel fast in terms of everything flying past you in an unrealisitc bumper cam but more as in your thought process and lines you take the track seems narrower.

Objects flying by give you the sense of speed.

The track may feel narrower based on your driving, but it doesn't physically look narrower, so your sense of speed isn't affected.

The reason F1 gives you a better sense of speed not because it's bigger, but because it's close to the ground.

Narrow tracks can add to the sense of speed, and it used to be good when F1 ran at the old Hockenheim, which was not only a high speed track, but was also very narrow making it seem even faster.

You dont exactly need wide tracks to race F1 cars, the modern tracks are too wide i think. Some of the older tracks are wide enough, such as Imola, look at the attached pic.

If an F1 car is roughly 200cm wide, then the track is roughly 10-11m wide! Which may sound narrow, but is a good width. Then look at the other pics, fern bay is about 11-12m wide, but apparently ...

"Sure you can drive a BF1 or FO8 around Fern Bay, but that's what I would call unrealistic because that would never happen IRL. " :pillepall

Then you move on to South City, some parts of this track are up to 30m, most parts are about 15m, and then the narrow bit is 10m.

Kind of puts it into perspective that Fern Bay isnt too narrow for F1 cars, and the mix of tracks we have at the moment are ok.

Quote from JeffR :

F1's race at Monaco, and that's a very tight track.

Monaco is quite redundant for F1 cars and has been for perhaps 10-15 years now. It is a historical race and that is why it endures to this day. Monaco + F1 is not a good example of an adequate street circuit. But then again Fern bay Club and the BF1 don't really go together either. Monsters like F1 or Le mans cars really shine on a fast flowing circuit that isn't too narrow. Wider tracks also increase overtaking opportunites, Monaco suffers in this respect perhaps more than any other circuit in the world.

Instead of narrowing the tracks, making new tarmac textures would be easy way to increase feel of speed. E.g. try this great tarmac texture for Fern Bay: http://www.marcls-home.de/file ... nid=15&p13_fileid=142

There are lots of tarmac textures for other tracks too (mostly Aston) but I think most of those are even more flat looking than the original textures, really looks like tarmac have been made 2 days ago. We just need random skid marks on the textures.