Look up "WTF happened to the devs?"

That's a classic actually - I love reading it from time to time. Still makes me laugh.

Quote from Whisper :

Don't lock threads. What's the worst that could happen? Most threads get locked after the conflict has been resolved already, anyway. Just let them die.

So what difference would that make? I don't understand how it could possibly be seen as better to let crap threads die off rather than closing them. By closing them a gentle point is made that we are on this forum for a reason, and that positive contributions to the community that we all enjoy require a tiny amount of self restraint at times and a little discipline. It is by this gentle nudging that the community and the forum is kept free from dross, pointless arguments and abuse, enldess o/t drifting and flame wars.

And otherwise Al would be useless I have to say that the O/T drifting fighting isn't really working

Serious.. You're completely right. Sometimes it can take a very long time before a stupid/unnecessary/out of hand thread dies out, often it even gets bumped after a while! So better to lock it up!

Quote from al heeley :

require a tiny amount of self restraint at times and a little discipline. It is by this gentle nudging that the community and the forum is kept free from dross, pointless arguments and abuse, enldess o/t drifting and flame wars.

As is PMing me when I lack/cause the above

Quote from al heeley :

So what difference would that make? I don't understand how it could possibly be seen as better to let crap threads die off rather than closing them. By closing them a gentle point is made that we are on this forum for a reason, and that positive contributions to the community that we all enjoy require a tiny amount of self restraint at times and a little discipline. It is by this gentle nudging that the community and the forum is kept free from dross, pointless arguments and abuse, enldess o/t drifting and flame wars.

Well, whether the thread is crap or not is a matter of opinion. Some may thinks it's crap, some may think it's not. If people don't enjoy a thread, they won't post in it, and it will die off without harming anyone. It's kind of like natural selection. When you lock a thread that you think is crap, you're imposing your opinion onto others.

To avoid that, forum rules are created. If a rule is broken, it's not a matter of opinion, and therefore it's rational to close the thread and/or ban the rule breaker.

When you're simply closing something because you don't like it, you're imposing your opinion onto others, and it discourages people from discussing things, since when opinions are in play and not a specific rule-set, it's hard to guess what's ok and what's not ok to say.

Quote from sgt.flippy :

Serious.. You're completely right. Sometimes it can take a very long time before a stupid/unnecessary/out of hand thread dies out, often it even gets bumped after a while! So better to lock it up!

Someone else may think it's not stupid, and a fine thread all around. Who's to say you're right and they're not. Opinions shouldn't cause thread closure. Only rule-breaking should.

Quote from Whisper :

To avoid that, forum rules are created. If a rule is broken, it's not a matter of opinion, and therefore it's rational to close the thread and/or ban the rule breaker.

Well... I don't know if the rule is written anywhere but "as a rule" we don't want people to repeat the same old thing again and again. A great example is the near-daily "I was banned unfairly" thread. It comes up so often, and this breaks the common sense (or forum etiquette if you prefer) rule that you should read existing threads or look around a little for the answer before posting. So we simply close the thread, always with a polite explanation! No harm done, and we keep the forum more healthy for visitors. They want to see 8 out of 10 sensible threads on the main page, not 9 pointless ones and 1 sensible one. I think this forum was beginning to get a reputation in some places for being full of ridiculous text. And that was a pity with the great number of calm, reasoned, intelligent community members. Unfortunately they were starting to get drowned out by pointless or repetitive text. I think that stopping the kind of threads we don't want to see, helps the forum remain a good site to visit.

if something isnt contructive adn will never end (see the nardo thread) then why not lock it? the point has been made, the flaming has started

Scawen made a good point about the reputation of this place. I lurk around a few other sim forums and this forum takes an occasional bashing here and there as a place where flaming, pointless crap and spam are frequent occurences. This unfairly reflects on the sim itself which is a great shame, as it's a unique and high-quality product in game-world.
This reputation may very well be the price LFS pays for having a large, diverse and active community with a wide range of ages, nationalities, cultures and personalities, but I think it's in all our best interests if people can think (or search) for two seconds before posting. It just seems there's a small minority who further this unfortunate reputation by posting thoughtlessly, contributing to childish flamewars or starting unnecessary threads.
This thread seems to be going ok so far though :up:

i wish there was a more strict rule against personal insults i often see people debating something back and fourth on many forums... not just here. and 1 of them will resort to personal insults and they go back and fourth flaming eachother .

I'd like to see people just showing more respect towards eachother...

Maybe this forum gets bashed in other places for spam and stuff, but actually, spam and off topic is what makes me enjoy myself here. I have never visited a forum this long and this frequently ever. Maybe for outsiders it's all weird or stupid, but for me it's fun! And I think, fun should have a big place here, LFS is a sim, but it also stays a game. So as long as good questions, and serious things can be talked about, with some fun in between... I'll stay here.

Quote from Scawen :

Well... I don't know if the rule is written anywhere but "as a rule" we don't want people to repeat the same old thing again and again.

I think you're presented with forum rules when you sign up and you have to accept them to continue. At least that's how it used to be.

I understand the frustration with repeated questions, but sometimes the search doesn't turn anything up because the wording is different. Also sometimes it's not a bad idea to let new people discuss an old topic. There will always be some fresh opinions. So unless the server is running out of space, I don't see much harm in repeating topics.

If it's just a commonly asked question, someone should simply post a link to the thread where it's been answered, and that all. Banning someone for failing to do a search would seem a bit of an overkill, imo. Same with locking a thread.

i agree with the above, i used to be on a big car forum (not sc.net before you ask!) but this has become my main forum, simply because i can help people, and get to read stuff thats actually interesting

Quote from Jakg :

if something isnt contructive adn will never end (see the nardo thread) then why not lock it? the point has been made, the flaming has started

Unless someone is being harmed, there's no reason to lock the thread. If people want to argue, let them. Don't like it? Don't read the thread. They'll stop eventually. They always do.

On other forums I visit there have been debate/flame/argument threads that went on for 50 pages and more... Guess what? Eventually they died. Telling people that everything has already been said is pointless. When everything has been said, people will stop talking on their own. No need to control that. It controls itself.

Control only needed when there are flames, spam, porn, racism, or anything else that's not actually allowed according to the rules.

Quote from Whisper :

Banning someone for failing to do a search would seem a bit of an overkill, imo. Same with locking a thread.

Where on earth did you get the idea that someone would be banned for failing to search?

Quote from Whisper :

On other forums I visit there have been debate/flame/argument threads that went on for 50 pages and more...

If more forums refused to condone such irrelevant discussions less people would assume that they are an acceptable way to use the forum. We are here to learn and share information about Live For Speed. Who wants stupid flame wars and dozens of identical topics (many of which seek answers that are already provided in sticky topics anyway). Topics get locked for various reasons, it isn't usually about punishment, it's more about managing the information. Useless posts, hijacking threads, spam, off topic threads, abuse etc, don't help any member to get at the relevant information that a good forum will contain. Also, it is quite common for the thread-starter to request that their topic be closed.

Quote from Gunn :

If more forums refused to condone such irrelevant discussions less people would assume that they are an acceptable way to use the forum.

Only if you assume that a long discussion/debate/argument cannot be relevant.

This is not an information directory, it's a discussion board. That's the appeal of the forum - people can come in and voice their opinion and debate topics. Never limit the amount of debate - it discourages further participation - only limit the inappropriate behavior.

as a newb observer to this forum, can I just point out that this forum is completely fine? All of the locks I've seen have been pretty mild like "ok this has been answered, locking now" *yawn*. There's no big deal here... infact it's almost as though you guys are looking for something to fix, when there's nothing broken :P

Fantastic forum by the way, I really enjoy hearing the devs, and I hope that doesn't have to stop when this place gets too busy. It's another reason why Scawen's locking & trimming here and there is only going to help keep this place the way it is, instead of the mad house you see in practically every other official game/sim forum.

just my 2c etc etc

Quote from Whisper :

Only if you assume that a long discussion/debate/argument cannot be relevant.

Who is assuming? Must be you.

Quote from Gunn :

Who is assuming? Must be you.

So you take it for a fact then?

Quote from Whisper :

So you take it for a fact then?

As far as you know.

Hmmm, this is getting silly - where did I put that padlock?

Actually it was pretty much over, until you bumped it.