Hello!

It's time to start thinking about what events NDR will run in the 2013 season. Remember, NDR names its seasons using the year the season ends.

Starting this year, all events NDR runs (and won't be limited to LFS in future) will have dates booked officially prior to October 1, and the official NDR year will run from November 1st to October 31st. Part of this is I have to book vacation time before the next calendar year starts so this advanced planning will help me schedule days I might need off for LFS.

With the dates, also a provisional schedule will be booked. The final actual schedule for a series will be published 1 month prior to the first round's date.

Wintertime series for NDR will run generally from November - March.

Summer series will generally run from May - September.

April and October will generally be off-months to finish winter/fall series, give a buffer in case of any delayed rounds, and to allow breaks for other things.

So onto ideas for the 2013 year.

Winter Series:
DEFINITE: 6th Annual Kyoto 250 on it's usual end of March time frame.
LIKELY - GT1 World Series (FZR 1%/15kg, XRR, FXR) - Endurance races: 3h, 6h, 12h, 24h, 500km, 1000km (one of each).
IDEAS -
-- BF1 Series to be the upper echelon of NDR's single seater series. Similar to LFSCART, longer races by a few tens of km, otherwise same general format
-- Return of TBO Challenge in it's old or somewhat revised format
-- Might have a short MiniFBM season later in the winter.

Summer Series:
DEFINITE: 6th Annual Kyoto 500 on it's usual end of June time
DEFINITE: LFSCART 2013 usual format.
UNSURE AS YET: GT2 World Series as is
IDEAS:
-- LFSCART Light runs alongside LFSCART like it did in 2010.

Other event ideas are welcome at this time, I know PMD is working on layouts for a "Global Rally Challenge" idea, and of course the road cars ideas being bounced about in the what do you want thread.

I do not blame the developers wholly for this "lack of racing spirit" / "Lack of desire". I lay some blame on the racers - you all forgot what it's about here, it's about the racing with others. It's NOT about hot lapping, it's NOT about being alone, it's about being competitive against friends, people who you interact with regularly. The camaraderie that LFS had back in 2008 when NDR first started went away, when CTRA did. CTRA killed the "mojo" and no one put in sufficient effort to keep it up.

NDR tries its best to offer some variety in race lengths and course selection over its series each year they run. I personally never tire of watching a large field of cars race, even in the SC-free races

Anyway, give your thoughts on what series NDR runs in 2013. NDR will keep running series in LFS until there's no one left to race in LFS. We'll be the ones to turn the lights out.

Quote from dekojester :

DEFINITE: 6th Annual Kyoto 250 on it's usual end of March time frame.

Quote from dekojester :

LIKELY - GT1 World Series (FZR 1%/15kg, XRR, FXR) - Endurance races: 3h, 6h, 12h, 24h, 500km, 1000km (one of each).

Quote from dekojester :

-- BF1 Series to be the upper echelon of NDR's single seater series. Similar to LFSCART, longer races by a few tens of km, otherwise same general format

:thumbsdow

Quote from dekojester :

-- Return of TBO Challenge in it's old or somewhat revised format

but in an endurance format, perhaps instead of GT1 World Series. TBO endurance would be good and I think the top teams would be up for it more than another GT series.

Quote from dekojester :

-- Might have a short MiniFBM season later in the winter.

Quote from dekojester :

DEFINITE: 6th Annual Kyoto 500 on it's usual end of June time

Quote from dekojester :

DEFINITE: LFSCART 2013 usual format.

Quote from dekojester :

LIKELY: GT2 World Series as is

Quote from dekojester :

-- LFSCART Light runs alongside LFSCART like it did in 2010.

And an iRacing league. Plus AC/rF2/anything else if they're good

Liking the idea of all the above. I think a NDR F1 series could be good, there are big grids in OWRL this year but I think maybe you guys could make it even better. The GT1 and GT2 world series I think is a very good replacement for IGTC and MoE. Looks great guys!

Wilko wants to get back into helping admin, will talk to him about formats for TBO Challenge.

iRacing likely for first point of NDR expansion. They have a deal on through the 27th of this month, existing customers get 2 years for the price of one :o

but iRacing is shit, why would you?

I'm all for the return of TBO Challenge.

GT1 World Series seems like a pretty ambitious idea but I like the 400km and 1000km races...I think those have never been done on LFS before, so I guess something new is a good thing.

GT1WS <333 Deko, can we have sex now

Quote from J@tko :

but in an endurance format, perhaps instead of GT1 World Series. TBO endurance would be good and I think the top teams would be up for it more than another GT series.

I spend ages trying to write a post, but couldn't cos it seemed arrogant. But then I saw this. I think if you get the top guys interested, the interest will spiral down.

GT1WS sounds awesome, those race lengths, too.

For those interested in an iRacing series from NDR, who don't own iRacing yet, this might be VERY interesting.

For basically giving some info to a car brand, you can get 6 months for free, plus some cars and tracks.

http://www.virtualr.net/six-months-of-free-iracing-promo

GT2WS will not be back without my approval, and simply without a physics change I see no point in bringing it back. It's nice for you to ask me about this before you bring this out. You may bring GTAL back on your own, but not GT2WS, that's my baby, regardless of my coming interest in NDR event running.

Quote from CSF :

GT2WS will not be back without my approval, and simply without a physics change I see no point in bringing it back. It's nice for you to ask me about this before you bring this out. You may bring GTAL back on your own, but not GT2WS, that's my baby, regardless of my coming interest in NDR event running.

Status updated to UNSURE AS YET then.

GTAL as it was will not be back anytime soon.

lol, why pay attention to his hypocritical whining bullshit? It's nothing new..

I do think a GT1 league can (and will) work, the people who got bored by GT1 are either not here at all any more or just post in the forums. There is no proper GT1 racing these days so I think it's only fair if somebody tries to fill that gap.

What about just making a GTWS where PRO is GT1 and AM is GT2?

Then combined team pts, Am, Pro.

What about, taking your bad idea and sticking it up your arse? Thats like MoE but with adding the points at the end, which is pointless

@Troy: not really true for this year as we had GT1 Challenge a few month ago and we have GT Masters running ATM…That said I like the GT1WS idea too!

@Deko: just a little note, I think you miss some kind of amateur league, I understand you don’t want to run GTAL anymore. But it is important to prepare the new generation of drivers and GTAL was perfect for that, when amateurs try to join big leagues, they are so much off pace that they lose motivations. And they are many teams around who don’t have PRO line ups yet, they need something to prepare them… I know GTAL was very useful for us, it is what got us in to league racing after all! (not every team can recruit good drivers and I think ‘’bigger’’ teams should have an AM line up to form their new drivers instead of only recruiting the best ones…the quality of the leagues is not only in the hands of the organization, the drivers are also very much responsible, so good preparation is important)

Another little note here, I noticed that too many drivers still do not prepare their races well and it shows in the events, so is there not something you/we could do to insure a minimum training has been done? Like required official training sessions (of some kind) in the days or weeks preceding the races? Another idea would be to have the bigger teams to mentor one smaller team each to help them improve, after all what we all want here is good competition and as many strong teams as possible, so we could help I think…

I do like the idea of TBO challenge and I must say that I agree with Isaac and J@tko about TBO endurance, would be a great idea!...not enough good quality road car leagues any way! (we have like 5 drivers who never participate in leagues because they only like road cars and the offered leagues are poor quality)

I am of the same opinion of Framaris. As the manager of a new team with new drivers, I would like to see some style of ladder system, where you have one big prestigious series and a feeder series for lesser drivers to gain experience and prove themselves all under one umbrella.

I think LFSCART and LFSCART Light are a good platform to do this. LFSCART is the big prestigious series with longer races, broadcast, the whole 9 yards and LFS CART Light is a feeder series (think F1 and GP2).

Maybe run LFSCART as an invite-only series of the top drivers and have a deticated roster of...lets say...28 drivers. The other 2 spots and any no-shows can be filled by the top Light drivers. Maybe Light runs on the same track the week before the LFSCART race. So if you finish in the top 2 of the Light race at Blackwood, you get to race the next weekend in the big series at Blackwood (and 3-4-5th from the light race would be on a waiting list to fill no-shows)

---

As far as other series, I do not really have an opinion. My team is relatively new and has yet to run a proper GT1 series, we are still learning the GT2's and we have not entered anything using STD or TBO but would consiter them.

While I completely agree a ladder system would be great, its hard to build one for endurance
Before it was GTAL >IGTC>MoE. And also before, we had many many more teams. Now for LFSCART we do have a much similar thing but it is a single driver championship. Its just something to think about.

I wish people could just come out and discuss like this. The more people we would have do it would make Deko and others know exactly what drivers, managers, or teams want and then incorporate that into future series.

if you do GT1WS, gib AS3 pls

I am along the same lines as Fram, with half my roster being developing drivers and more often than not it being easier to field an Am car in GT2WS I am always looking for leagues I can enter those drivers in for experience - it's the only way they will improve. However, this is very difficult with no leagues that match their level to train in. Whilst I admit GTAL will not come back, something along the same lines as it should return. Prehaps if we are going to go down the road car endu route, we could try some form of GTAL-esqe road car league to see the amount of interest before an MoE style league later in the year. I would love to see a GT1WS and GT2WS on the calender, just because I know that some people feel GT2 is "below" them and do not race them, but race GT1 a lot. I think that multi class GTR leagues is definitely a big no as it dilutes racing and reduces grids, but I cant see why GT1WS and GT2WS wont enjoy success.

I don't see why you would want to use GTR cars to 'train' drivers. And plus its just boring, im sure you have a setup for every possible combo with the GT2's and GT1's which = no point to even put in any effort. Crap grids, crap pace...

Look at LFSCART, there is no competition in that class, isaac will pretty much walk those races if it goes his way, and then you look at last season where the competition was pretty high. Its the same with GT2WS, MoE, IGTC and all the other GT leagues.

Something fresh is needed, Road cars give good close racing and not everybody will have a setup for each combo either so there will be some preparation needed. I do like the idea of a minimal training though, it might bring some good pace where there is a few top guys and not just the 1 or 2.

Quote from PMD9409 :

While I completely agree a ladder system would be great, its hard to build one for endurance
Before it was GTAL >IGTC>MoE. And also before, we had many many more teams. Now for LFSCART we do have a much similar thing but it is a single driver championship. Its just something to think about.

I wish people could just come out and discuss like this. The more people we would have do it would make Deko and others know exactly what drivers, managers, or teams want and then incorporate that into future series.

I agree that is is hard for endurance, for a full endurance field, you need at least 60 drivers, and if you wanted a top series and lower series like I am proposing, you need at least 120 drivers. But I think it can work in a single driver environment. The problem with the current LFS CART Light format as a feeder series is that it is full of top pros and the upcoming drivers get scared off or don't get through Pre-Qualifying (I think round 1 this year had close to 60 guys qualifying for 30 starting spots, I know it dropped off at the end, I think guys got scared off...personally, I was the same, I really felt I had very little chance of making the race if 60 guys kept showing up).

And it does not have to LFSCART and LFSCART Light, it can be something new and original. But I think a premier series and a feeder series would help get drivers involved and teams do not have to get in the way. If the NDR guys went into a dark room and had a massive argument to determine their top ~28 invite only drivers regardless of what team drivers are on, if 12 Core guys get chosen and only 2 GenR guys get in...so be it. People are invited and race as individuals. If *lets say* Phil and Isaac choose to run Western Wolves skins and share setups and data before the race, that is their private business.

The lower series can draw in lesser known drivers, as they are not scared off by the prospect of racing against the uber-pros. They have an environemnt to get their feet wet in a well organized series. I spent some time this winter with a different league just for the added seat time and it was a waste of time, the events were poorly coordinated and there were not penalties handed to dangerous drivers so it was just an exercise of not getting wrecked by the lappers who were 10 seconds off the pace. The lower series still has some meaning as the top few get to race with the "big boys" in the big broadcast race amongst highly respected drivers.

This does not have to LFSCART/LFSCART Light either, it can be pros in TBO and noobs in STD...it can be pros in STD's noobs in UF1, or a GT1 and GT2 series...this is a topic I can not discuss as I am new to the community, I do not what has been done and am still learning the GT2's and have yet to run a proper GT1 series, but I think single driver series will help pull in new independent drivers and help get them noticed by teams and a feeder series under a top series will give meaning to both series. The top series is very prestigious and invite only, the lower series is racing for the right to be invited.

Not sure what you mean here Joe, I am not even sure what top guys/drivers means for you, if it is alien fast with over sized ego who can’t even show good example by finishing their race because they are not on the podium, then I am not sure we really need them. And good competition can be achieved at any level, what we need is hardcore race lovers who are ready to race maturely and show good example by being clean, consistent and friendly…being a racer is not only an ability, it is also a mentality. I think the attitude of many (not all) aliens in lfs has a perverse effect on the racing ambiance because they have no respect for anyone but themselves...

@Phill: I agree with you about the numbers of teams, and we also miss a lot of ''serious'' public racing like we use to have... and that’s why I think it is more important now than ever to help smaller or new teams to achieve something, that’s the best way to motivate them to stay in lfs…I think by doing that we can have a solid league community and full grids again. Anyway my 2 cents here is, the best way for amateur drivers (who are a majority this days) to have fun and be encouraged to progress is by matching drivers and their pace in good quality leagues…NDR is the best league organization atm and they have experience with amateur races!

@Fram well basically we look at LFSCART this season, Isaac has been the quickest on each round with some ease, though it hurts me to say... and it just shows because nobody can really match that sort of pace and I doubt he is putting in as much effort as previous/other leagues. And by top guys I mean the usual guys. Basically the 'same old' leagues have no real competition compared to a season or two ago. Maybe with something fresh we can see new drivers at the top and some motivation for people to prepare and get motivated.

I know that if I was to race in GT2WS or LFSCART I would barely practice at all because chances are I already have a setup, driven the combo god knows how many times... Takes the fun out of it really.

But of course I'm not saying the current drivers/teams are crap or filling up ego's but in my view races are easier than before in terms of competition due to the things stated above