Quote from amp88 :

Although I find it reprehensible to defend Romney, the above was clearly a (poorly timed and delivered) joke. If you see the footage of it you'd see that. There are numerous genuine reasons to have a high degree of contempt and distaste for Romney; there's no need to go about trying to take jokes seriously to make a point.

And so is the majority of the US election, as much as I despise Obama he at least is prepared to put America before 'Reducted'

If anyone is interested in actual facts then check out Bain Capital and the way that they helped create Monsanto's GM face, check where he got his money from and check who supports his bid for 'Leader of the Free World'

The US people are clearly completely disinterested in legality, ethics, morals, or anything other than 'Shopping and Eating, preferably at the same time' to quote George Carlin.

Therefore the rest of us are required to point out the farce that's currently going on, and try to wake up 99% of the worlds population and point out that we can change what's happening.

Of course, if you want to be a victim then that's your choice, being powerless is an easy state of mind and it saves you from having to actually do anything to change the current reality.

Just try to realise that we are all equal and we all have the power to create our own reality.

I bet that the above has lost most people.......

Quote from amp88 :

Although I find it reprehensible to defend Romney, the above was clearly a (poorly timed and delivered) joke. If you see the footage of it you'd see that.

while the flag next to my name doesnt exactly make me an expert on jokes in the eyes of most british people to me his delivery doesnt exactly make it look like a joke

This is a very interesting video on how economic inequality harms societies. It goes to the point I was struggling to make above about the danger of using percentage of millionaires as a good indicator, which flymike suggested.

The above video is well worth watching.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

The US people are clearly completely disinterested in legality, ethics, morals, or anything other than 'Shopping and Eating, preferably at the same time' to quote George Carlin.

Yes, please tell us more about what we're interested in...

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

Yes, please tell us more about what we're interested in...

To be fair he's quoting George Carlin so have a go him instead.
..actually don't. If you have a go at Carlin I'll have to give you a slap The man's a legend

I was under the impression that only the last bit was a Carlin quotation.

Well, lets take a quick look at the recent US record, the following list of American wars is only from 1979. An interesting fact is that since 1776 there have only been 21 years when you weren't at war with someone. Why does a 'moral and ethical' country feel such a need to invade others, and remember that you elect your government.

1979 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan)
1980 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan)
1981 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), First Gulf of Sidra Incident
1982 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Lebanon
1983 – Cold War (Invasion of Grenada, CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Lebanon
1984 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua), Conflict in Persian Gulf
1985 - Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua)
1986 – Cold War (CIA proxy war in Afghanistan and Nicaragua)
1987 – Conflict in Persian Gulf
1988 – Conflict in Persian Gulf, U.S. occupation of Panama
1989 – Second Gulf of Sidra Incident, U.S. occupation of Panama, Conflict in Philippines
1990 – First Gulf War, U.S. occupation of Panama
1991 – First Gulf War
1992 – Conflict in Iraq
1993 – Conflict in Iraq
1994 – Conflict in Iraq, U.S. invades Haiti
1995 – Conflict in Iraq, U.S. invades Haiti, NATO bombing of Bosnia and Herzegovina
1996 – Conflict in Iraq
1997 – No major war
1998 – Bombing of Iraq, Missile strikes against Afghanistan and Sudan
1999 – Kosovo War
2000 – No major war
2001 – War on Terror in Afghanistan
2002 – War on Terror in Afghanistan and Yemen
2003 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, and Iraq
2004 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2005 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2006 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2007 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen
2008 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2009 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2010 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Yemen
2011 – War on Terror in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen; Conflict in Libya (Libyan Civil War)
http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/ ... -we-have-been-since-1776/


Now let's take a look at Americans, The Josephson Institute of Los Angeles, which studies contemporary ethics and morals, recently released its “2008 Report Card on the Ethics of American Youth.” According to the Institute, the “results paint a troubling picture of our future politicians and parents, cops and corporate executives, and journalists and generals.”
"
Instead of being rooted in an objective moral order that exists independently of ourselves, right and wrong are subjective—they’re the product of the person’s “values.”
In that case, it makes perfect sense that people can lie, cheat, and steal and still be “satisfied” with their ethics. After all, they are not answerable to God or the community, only to themselves. The question isn’t, “How shall we live?” but, “How do I feel about it?”
Apparently, the answer is “just fine,” which we should find even more troubling than what our kids do. "
http://www.cbn.com/family/parenting/colson_KidsEthics.aspx


Then, to bring things up to date, let's take a look at your presidential candidates.


But it appears that most Americans are completely comfortable with a complete lack of morals, both internally and externally. I personally feel that it's more due to complete ignorance, mainly due to your media who are generally incapable of telling the truth themselves.

To give you an example, the US is currently supporting terrorists, you work directly with Al Quida in both Lybia and now Syria. You've just moved MEK off your terrorist list and take no action when they attack diplomats in New York. And the list goes on and on and on.

The American dream ?





"Peace is obtained neither by Law nor Force but by compassion towards others and self-sacrifice." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - President of Iran

NO U!!!!

I'd much rather spend all the foreign aid money and UN contributions on space technology and exploration. The US doesn't need to meddle in the affairs of Africa or any other continent. Obviously things over there are catching up they're only about 75 years behind the civilized world. If we stop giving them money, they're finally find the impetus to advance their own nations. Grow or die.

The US on the other hand has a higher number of people enjoying the benefits of the first world than any nation with comparable populations. Our poorest people literally live like kings compared to the poor in India, where slavery is still alive and well. I think we do alright for ourselves. I don't believe that having the taxpayers be forced to care for the poor like children is going to make the US a better and more exemplary nation. Europe has tried that and I would say it is failing, those nations have stagnated and their scientists and engineers still come here to live better lives.

At some point, which has already passed in Europe, people who make things, produce products and services, and contribute to the economy look at all of the people who don't work and still live relatively comfortably and say, "I'm a sucker for doing all this work and paying my own bills when everyone else is taking my tax dollars without contributing anything to our society or economy"

France just raised the top tax rate to 75% and still people say that isn't enough. At what point will the rich pay their fair share in taxes? 80%? 90%? 100%? And why should they be punished for making products, services, and JOBS but the welfare exploiters are rewarded for making nothing and taking whatever they can get? It is the thousands of able bodied, able minded people who choose not to work who should be if not punished, at least left to their own devices. Grow or die.

First debate starts in just less than 45 mins, shown live in Finland. Yay! http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1690838 No idea if it's geo-blocked.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

First debate starts in just less than 45 mins, shown live in Finland. Yay! http://areena.yle.fi/tv/1690838 No idea if it's geo-blocked.

I believe this link should work OK worldwide.

I hope Reagan wins this debate.

Mitt "Steamroller" Romney. Even Bill Maher commented that Obama needed his teleprompter badly. Not that I agree with Bill Maher of course, Obama could have read the back of a cereal box and have had equal substance.

I think that Stalins quote is the most relevant

" I don't care how people vote, all I care about is who counts the votes"

And who counts the Americans votes ?

Who has massive voter fraud ?

Who supports Romney ?

Why shouldn't it be a surprise that he has a magical ability to win votes ?

Who are Americas real owners ?

Why am I so cynical about the joke of American democracy ?

My advice, dig a foxhole and watch the crap happen..........

He doesn't have any votes.

Romney spoke about returning power to the state and local governments, that would seem to be up your alley. Also reducing corporate welfare and "too big to fail" ideology.

You would never be happy with anyone or anything in America. Let me know how New Zealand's space program is doing. Is there any wool in the International Space Station?

lol, your space agency isn't doing too well either Shuttle program stopped, numerous projects for a sucessor stopped in favor of weaponary programs (X-33, X-40), no own rocket capable of transporting astronauts. Ask the Russians or Chinese

for directions to Mars?

No more constitution.

Indefinite detention for US citizens

1.7 billion rounds of hollow point ammunition for Homeland security

TSA training you to be obedient sheeple

Bankers free to committ any crime

Guns for Mexican gangs

Afghanistan, the war for drugs

Al Queda are your partner

An electoral system controlled by PACs

40 percent unemployment

So tell me again how well you doing ?

And Romney will be better ?, do tell me how ..........

Gary Johnson's live commentary of the first debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVHGJYy4NTg

Quote from flymike91 :

Mitt "Steamroller" Romney. Even Bill Maher commented that Obama needed his teleprompter badly. Not that I agree with Bill Maher of course, Obama could have read the back of a cereal box and have had equal substance.

lol

Well that was entertaining - Mittens takes a new record for 27 complete lies in 38 minutes, what really impressed me was the complete reversal of everything he's stood for so far.
Obama looked like he was on prozac.
Who was that 'person' chairing the 'debate', I assume they dragged someone off the street as the original hadn't shown up with 5 minutes to go.

I rest my case about the state of the US.

And why are only these 2 considered for a debate ? I do believe that there are others standing, I guess that their too much of a threat to ' This debate is brought to you by AIPAC and Wall St' to be allowed to express their opinions to Americans.

next debate is on foreign policy, right? I can't wait to see Obama try to spin the fact that supporting the Arab Spring to promote democracy ended up creating Islamist theocracies that we are giving billions of dollars to.

I would like to read that list of 27 lies you're claiming. How about truths? 47 million Americans on food stamps for one, no one can get small business loans and grow their businesses, Obama's tax the rich strategy punishes job creators big and small...etc.

Quote from flymike91 :

next debate is on foreign policy, right? I can't wait to see Obama try to spin the fact that supporting the Arab Spring to promote democracy ended up creating Islamist theocracies that we are giving billions of dollars to.

I would like to read that list of 27 lies you're claiming. How about truths? 47 million Americans on food stamps for one, no one can get small business loans and grow their businesses, Obama's tax the rich strategy punishes job creators big and small...etc.

And how much tax did Mittens pay under Obama's 'tax the rich' scheme ?
Did it get as high as 14% ?, And before the debate Mitten's wanted to drop that as it was too high...........

Now however, he's claiming he never said that - There's 1

And here you go mike, the rest...... http://truth-out.org/news/item ... ld-27-myths-in-38-minutes

I also recommend the following...
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/1360
http://livinglies.wordpress.co ... nd-dissappointing-debate/
http://truth-out.org/opinion/i ... levised-presidential-fail

And just to keep things even,
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/f ... form-we-saw-the-real-man/

And the Arab spring is for democracy ? Who told you that, and more to the point, why do you believe that ?

Example, Bahrain.

In a rare exception to the near-national blackout of reporting on Bahrain by the USA’s top media outlets [3], National Public Radio reporter Kelly McEvers, in early 2012, tells, after several trips to Bahrain in 2011, of “Bahrain: The Revolution That Wasn’t” (McEvers, January 5, 2012). “Bahrain’s uprising didn’t get quite as much attention as some of the others in the Arab world last year,” she reports. “But it was one of the first, beginning on Feb. 14.” McEvers continues, “Bahrainis had protested before, mainly about the fact that the country’s majority Shiites remain poor [4] and disenfranchised by the Sunni monarchy.

But they’d never protested like this.

“At first the protesters asked for things like an elected Parliament, a new constitution. But then when demonstrators started getting killed, tens of thousands of Bahrainis converged on a place called the Pearl Roundabout to call for the fall of the ruling Al Khalifa family.”
“Bahrain State TV called protesters traitors and agents of Iran, which is nearby and also has a Shiite majority.”

“In Bahrain, pro-government thugs attacked protesters, and protesters fought back. Just one month into the uprising, Bahrain’s ruling family authorized some 1,500 troops from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to enter the country.”

“Apache helicopters circled overhead as authorities cleared the Pearl Roundabout of all protesters. They never made it back” (McEvers, January 5, 2012).

“‘If there is a place globally where there is not just distance but a huge gap between American interests and American values, it’s in the Persian Gulf’,” Jones says. “‘And its epicenter is in Bahrain. Bahrain is ground zero for the Arab Spring in the Persian Gulf. And the United States has chosen sides. It has decided that it wants to see the Bahraini regime survive and endure. And that’s important not only for the American relationship with Bahrain but for Saudi Arabia.’”

“The U.S. Navy’s 5th Fleet is based in Bahrain, giving the U.S. a major presence that has only increased in significance following the U.S. withdrawal of forces from Iraq.”
“In addition, Saudi Arabia didn’t want protests in its own backyard, Jones says. And it didn’t want a Shiite-led uprising to encourage its archrival, Shiite-dominated Iran” (McEvers, January 5, 2012).
http://www.globalresearch.ca/b ... ton-s-despotic-arab-ally/

Back during the initial swing of protests in Bahrain, and when the Khalifa regime’s crackdown was at its harshest, dozens of medical professionals were arrested for the crime of treating as patients those protesters who had been injured by violent Bahraini security forces. At the time, the authorities slapped trumped up charges on them like “attempting to overthrow the government” and “spreading false news.” After international condemnation, mainly from rights groups, the regime granted those doctors release on bail pending a retrial. Since that decision, the commission appointed to investigate the government’s abuses in response to Arab Spring protests found, among other things, that torture was systemic (and probably still is). That commission investigated a total of 300 cases, although they received 5,200 complaints of abuse. People were beaten, electro-shocked, sexually abused, suspended in stress positions, etc.
http://antiwar.com/blog/2011/1 ... nny-in-bahrain-continues/

Did I hear the US saying how they supported these people ? - NO

Did I hear the US withdrawing their support for this regime ? - NO

What do I hear ?

A decision by the Obama administration to resume a large arms deal to Bahrain has incensed opposition activists in the tiny Gulf kingdom who see the deal as a signal that the US supports Bahrain’s repression of opposition protests.
US officials said the decision to resume arms sales was made in light of US national security interests. According to a transcript of a conference call with reporters, an unidentified senior administration official said, in a reference to Iran, that the sale would "help Bahrain maintain its external defense capabilities."
http://www.csmonitor.com/World ... -Activists-feel-abandoned

The Arab spring was about regime change where the US wanted it, nothing else. It certainly had nothing at all to do with the people or democracy for the people, only about the US getting the peons to install a US friendly ruling group that would sign away to the US anything you wanted.


And you actually think that US policy is any different under either of your two identical party's ?

Where was New Zealand's army and navy when Bahrain needed them?