Spot on.
Spot on.
OI its not pick apart my 1337 PC day .... its pick apart the quads or dualies. 
Am I missing one of the devs posts here thats said something along the lines of:
"Congrats on finding the change, please post hear to say which version you prefer and we will put it in the next patch"
Just seems weired that people are actually voting for which system they like as if it is going to change in the next patch :S
"Congrats on finding the change, please post hear to say which version you prefer and we will put it in the next patch"
Just seems weired that people are actually voting for which system they like as if it is going to change in the next patch :S
You never know, but of course please feel free to complain at any time.
With quad exhausts it also looks to Ferrari like and the FZ really needs to look more like a 911 or we'll see more idiots saying it's actually based on a Ferrari 550, just a rear engined flat 6 version :doh:
Yeah, because devs have never listened to people's requests before.
Let's just avoid expressing our preferences, that way we can be sure nothing changes.
LOL
You mean it isn't??? :drunk:
How would one go about making a quad exhaust pipe system for a flat 6 engine? That's 6/4 = 3/2 cylinders per exhaust tip. It would have to be 6-into-1-into-4 or 6-into-2-into-4, which seems ridiculous to me.
It could be just the exhaust tips, 6 in to 2 with quad tips. Ricey? Perhaps.
Turbo Esprit? anyone remember Test Drive 2 on an Amiga left em all for a 6
:doh:
Did you read any of the posts?
99.9% of all cars with a "quad exhaust" outlet on the rear, only have it for about 6 inches since they have dual tips on dual exhaust (sometimes not even for the whole system) systems. It's not rocket science. No car really needs 4 exhausts (even the Veyron). It's cosmetic. That's it.
Note that's what this thread is about: which one looks better?
.. cosmetics until the point of backpressure issues
There are no backpressure issues (resolved ) with 6 inches of quad exhaust. In fact, most engines would suffer greatly from a real quad exhaust since a properly designed exhaust system is more beneficial than none at all (!!) due to scavenging / pressure wave advantages imposed by a well done exhaust system.
Bigger is not always better, and backpressure is not by any means the only thing to consider in an exhaust system, at least not in that respect.
Turbocharged cars are a different matter in many regards of course.
no but backpressure can be a problem with 1 pipe and 2 tips
tips makes no difference; its the size and angularity of the pipe
also.. both mufflers, the fore and aft have a large impact too
tips makes no difference; its the size and angularity of the pipe
also.. both mufflers, the fore and aft have a large impact too
You'll need to explain yourself better because those two statements are juxtaposed from where I sit.
Angularity isn't a major factor up to the point where Laminar flow starts to be an issue (large angles).
Indeed the tips make no (or very very negligable difference) at all. The main factor in the ability of said exhaust system to assist in the scavenging of exhaust gasses from the cylinders is volume since it largely dictates resonance. A sufficiently tuned system will actually assist by providing some low relative pressure activity to the exhaust manifolds at the right engine RPM. Too large of an exhaust system will not achieve this and simply create turbulence thereby actually increasing backpressure in comparison to a proper system.
yea like when a car is stock, backpressure can rob horsepower and gas mileage and just keeps the heat in; a straight pipe and a single muffler usually resolves the problem
can you explain to me what echoeing has anything to do with gasses flowing away from the engine block
can you explain to me what echoeing has anything to do with gasses flowing away from the engine block
A high-performance 2-stroke usually has an expansion chamber that basically looks like a big balloon hanging off the exhaust port. Pressure waves produced by the combustion process are reflected back into the exhaust port so that the excess air and fuel drawn out of the exhaust port during the intake stroke is pushed back in. This has the effect of "supercharging" a 2-stroke at a specific RPM range depending upon the shape of the expansion chamber, which is nothing more than a strangely shaped exhaust pipe.
4-stroke engines use the same basic principles of reflected pressure waves but instead of pushing excess charge back into the cylinder, they are used instead to draw the exhaust gases out faster. With too short of an exhaust, these pressure waves simply exit and don't have any time to reflect back. I don't know the exact science behind it but I think that's the basic idea.
4-stroke engines use the same basic principles of reflected pressure waves but instead of pushing excess charge back into the cylinder, they are used instead to draw the exhaust gases out faster. With too short of an exhaust, these pressure waves simply exit and don't have any time to reflect back. I don't know the exact science behind it but I think that's the basic idea.
Nuse..
Resonance is a mechanical phenomenon usually applied to acoustic circumstances which I presume is why you're asking me what you're asking.
A given volume of air will generally have an affinity for oscillation at a given frequency (like a spring, talk to Bob for further details).
Exhaust is made up of pulses, which are high pressure areas followed by low pressure areas. Allowing the low pressure areas to work for you is taking advantage of the resonance of a particular exhaust system. When a low pressure area is able to assist in evacuating a cylinder of exhaust gasses, overall backpressure is effectively negative - which is better than 0 (no exhaust system at all)....
Piping of a certain diameter / design will use the inertia of the pulses and the resulting trailing low pressure to accomplish this. To much volume will inhibit this phenomenon and create turbulent flow thereby increasing overall backpressure.
Echoing is pressure (usually applied to acoustics) returning to you after being reflected.
Hope this clears things up, perhaps my first post was not very clear.
I'd prefer the current exhausts were just made smaller, rounder (oval pipes??); generally less obnoxious. I recall the peasants revolting when the current look was introduced.
If you look under the car it's a little bit more than tips we're talking about.
If you look under the car it's a little bit more than tips we're talking about.
...my real quad exhaust (currently reading all your other stuff.. but since all of you are showing off pictures... i'll show off the engine ... 10 steps from me :tilt
@wark, its somewhat simple, you have the headers which bring down the exhaust to the pipes which turns into the first muffler where a catalyst removes "bad" polutions, then down the rest of the way bending to get out of the way of... other things, then you have the 2nd muffler which is i believe usually used to cancel out sounds (or enhance), then you got the tip
just finished reading... lol im not trying to prove anyone wrong, just learn
and... yea i could say this stuff gets kinda confusing real fast
@wark, its somewhat simple, you have the headers which bring down the exhaust to the pipes which turns into the first muffler where a catalyst removes "bad" polutions, then down the rest of the way bending to get out of the way of... other things, then you have the 2nd muffler which is i believe usually used to cancel out sounds (or enhance), then you got the tip
just finished reading... lol im not trying to prove anyone wrong, just learn
and... yea i could say this stuff gets kinda confusing real fastAh, your V8 is a flat plane crank 
What BBT says is correct - the lengths and diameters of the primary pipes (i.e. up to the first join) is the most critical thing, and they are usually designed to improve scavenging at a certain rpm by 'timing' the reflected pressure pulses so that a cylinder has a lower pressure in the exhaust just behind the valve, which will help exhaust the cylinder and also help, with a bit of valve overlap, improve the induction on that cylinder too - a very simple form of pseudo forced induction.
The silencers and mufflers have much less effect on the system (though appreciable gains can be made with freer flowing mufflers.
For a flat 6 I'd guess that you'd have a 3 into 2 into 1 on each bank, maybe with crossovers to aid the scanvenging, but that will depend on the firing order and crank design. A 3 into 1 (or 6 into 2 if you like) would be another possibility, but you'd probably tend to find it less than perfect as the scavenging would be less efficient.
As for multiple ends, that is purely cosmetic. Most cars will have only one or two 'main' pipes running down the car, and the split at the end will do nothing other than change the noise and styling. The effects of backpressure at this range from the engine will be minimal. The FZ being rear engined will of course have a shorter exhaust system, but I can't imagine it would have more than two main pipes, so the need for four exhausts would just add weight and make the car even more tail happy.
But ricers know best...
What BBT says is correct - the lengths and diameters of the primary pipes (i.e. up to the first join) is the most critical thing, and they are usually designed to improve scavenging at a certain rpm by 'timing' the reflected pressure pulses so that a cylinder has a lower pressure in the exhaust just behind the valve, which will help exhaust the cylinder and also help, with a bit of valve overlap, improve the induction on that cylinder too - a very simple form of pseudo forced induction.
The silencers and mufflers have much less effect on the system (though appreciable gains can be made with freer flowing mufflers.
For a flat 6 I'd guess that you'd have a 3 into 2 into 1 on each bank, maybe with crossovers to aid the scanvenging, but that will depend on the firing order and crank design. A 3 into 1 (or 6 into 2 if you like) would be another possibility, but you'd probably tend to find it less than perfect as the scavenging would be less efficient.
As for multiple ends, that is purely cosmetic. Most cars will have only one or two 'main' pipes running down the car, and the split at the end will do nothing other than change the noise and styling. The effects of backpressure at this range from the engine will be minimal. The FZ being rear engined will of course have a shorter exhaust system, but I can't imagine it would have more than two main pipes, so the need for four exhausts would just add weight and make the car even more tail happy.
But ricers know best...
Speaking of crank designs, it would be great if Scawen added cross plane V8s to LFS to complete the variety of engines (sounds) in LFS. Anyone have a good explanation why LFS's "V5" sounds so much like one? :
:Or a V7, for that matter. It's because the cranks for those engine configurations aren't flat.
Hang on !!!
(56 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG