What vid? Can't see anyone linked on here?
Anyway just in case - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqG-U2XeWgo
Davidson's point at the end is rather telling, especially for someone who's good friends with Button.
I can imagine the shareholders at McLaren asking some serious questions!
On a slight side note can't help thinking Hamilton and Alonso are doing good job of psyching Vettel out. Alonso doesn't refer to Vettel much, rather than 'the car' or flat out says Newey is the real genius. Hamilton came out with saying he doesn't consider Vettel in the same league as Alonso. Seemed to show a tad today with vettel over-driving. Despite penalty the championship is still going his way.
Considering RedBull do not look the fastest here, it will be a real test for Vettels driving Ability to get comfortably in the points, im assuming Redbull are modifying their car for a more speed set up, otherwise he will be stuck behind Force Indias and Saubers the whole race, whether he will hit someone though is the biggest question mark if he can score points or not.
Alonso last race wasn't really a battle to the front, it was mainly helped by the fact Ferrari had much more speed on the soft compound then Mclaren and supreme Top speed.
You mean just like Alonso failed to do at the same track in 2010?
Back in 2010 there was no DRS.
No it's a different video, raw feed+audio, but lol forgot to paste the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6f8mYpzQ2Y
I think it's a bit sad some of the criticism that Vettel gets. Remember his win at Monza for Toro Rosso.
I'm torn this season. I don't want Vettel to win three championships in a row, and I like Alonso, but I don't want to see Ferrari win anything ever again. I suppose one of them has to win, unless Lotus manage to nuke them both in every remaining race with a secret laser machine and also give Kimi extra tyre glue.
I'm torn this season. I don't want Vettel to win three championships in a row, and I like Alonso, but I don't want to see Ferrari win anything ever again. I suppose one of them has to win, unless Lotus manage to nuke them both in every remaining race with a secret laser machine and also give Kimi extra tyre glue.
People are just butthurt.
There was no DRS for Schumacher's wins either. Plus it remains to be seen whether Red Bull can adapt the car enough to be able to take advantage of DRS to move through the field (through changes allowed because they're starting Vettel from the pitlane).
That was really another pole + hotlap fest though. There's no doubt it was an impressive performance, but it didn't do anything to show he could battle through traffic. His overtaking move on Button at Spa which ended up taking a bite out of Button's sidepod was stronger evidence against him than Monza was for him.
Vettel's car is being taken out of parc ferme, that's why they're starting from the pits.
The penalty was to start at the back of the grid. If they chose to do so, the car would have to be kept in parc ferme. However, they chose to take the car out of parc ferme and start from pit lane instead, so parc ferme rules do not apply.
He has already demonstrated that he can achieve good results from down the field. Just off the top of my head:
* China 2007: started 12th, finished 4th
* Silverstone 2010: dropped to last due to puncture, finished 7th
* Spa 2012: started 10th, finished 2nd
...and a brief look at Google:
* Monaco 2008: started 18th, finished 5th
* China 2010: dropped to 15th due to tyre mistake, finished 6th
I can also think of some other, less dramatic races where he's had to make up positions as well. The notion that he can't overtake is a myth long quashed (I think Martin Brundle even said it was "idiotic" while commentating at one of the races last year).
Web's p2 lap
Ham's pole lap in attachment.
Where is the justice
Ham's pole lap in attachment.
Where is the justice
Are you for real? Half of the top 10 were taken out by the first corner incident... Looking at results as you are isn't an indication that a driver has had to pass other cars on track.
I'm not suggesting Vettel has never had to do this before but to judge correctly one would actually have to re-watch these races.
A champions drive is something like Button at Canada last year or Senna at Donington in '93, Vettel to my mind has yet to piece together a champions drive.
Most times when we've seen Vettel under real pressure and in a close quarters situation we've seen him have people off the track [Suzuka 2011], try to drive off the track to pass [Germany this year] or just ram them off completely. [Turkey '10 and Spa '10]
Not to mention the annoying starts he does when he moves over immediately and starts squeezing people into walls or off the circuit.
I guess if he would be a brit, everything would be okay for most of you.
Actually, no because I give not a single shit about where a driver is from.
To a point I'm a fan of every F1 driver as we all are.
Justice <--> F1.
It has nothing to do with his nationality.
This harks back to the discussion on whether Vettel can be considered a great. Well, here we are Sebastian - championship is down to the wire and he has to perform from the back of the grid, overtaking whilst not risking a crash too much.
Let's see what he's got.
Let's see what he's got.
If this was aimed at me then I would strongly refute it. I've never been one for jingoism or 'patriotism' for patriotism's sake. For example, I was a Michael Schumacher fan at the time when he was racing against David Coulthard and I think Hulkenberg has done a better job overall this season than Paul di Resta. I'm also a fairly vocal critic of many of Hamilton's actions (on and off track).
Vettel can't win though. If he comes through the field well, people will say it was the car or the strategy, or the first corner crash that took everyone else out. It won't be him. If he finishes lower down or doesn't finish, it'll be because he's not good enough.
But then modern F1 fans are incapable of grasping that.
But then modern F1 fans are incapable of grasping that.
I think your whole discussion about Vetter being great if he succeeds to overtake everyone in this track is ridiculous. First of all, this race is one of the hardest tracks to attempt an overtake, second overtaking is actually more about the car than the drivers because of DRS. Red Bull car has never had a good speed in straights compared to other teams which makes overtaking extremely hard. Remember last race? Kimi was 0.5-1 second behind Massa the entire race but couldn't do anything in straights because Massa's ferrari had 10km/h higher top speed.
Of course there are different measures to greatness but in my eyes overtaking is only a fraction of being great nowadays. Vettel is without a doubt with Hamilton (I personally believe Vettel is faster than Hamilton) the fastest driver in qualifying - when you need them to drive a perfect lap, they usually do.
Alonso is not that good in qualifying pace and has to overtake more (he's good at doing that though) but that's because he doesn't have the raw speed Hamilton and Vettel do. In race it's about consistence with speed and saving tires which Alonso probably does best of the three but if he starts from behind the two it's very hard for him to pass.
I don't know if you see my point but I'd rather be fastest in quali and keep my position during the race (that's what every driver wants) than be forced to start from behind and be forced to overtake a lot.
BTW, I've seen amazing passes from Vettel (against Alonso in Monza for example) that proves he's capable of overtaking. His car isn't designed to overtake but to win, that's why it's harder for them to overtake if needed. It's not about the driver it's about the car.
Also Red Bull are making changes to the car after (probably to gain better overtaking ability for it) which in my mind can be used against Vettel if he manages to overtake (assuming Red Bull can make the car very good in possible overtaking areas of the track)
With DRS implemented you actually don't need to even know how to overtake properly but in some tracks just press a button and if your car is faster you're past the opponent. How is overtaking ability from a driver important or a measure of greatness if you don't need it? Racing is about winning and winning only.
Of course there are different measures to greatness but in my eyes overtaking is only a fraction of being great nowadays. Vettel is without a doubt with Hamilton (I personally believe Vettel is faster than Hamilton) the fastest driver in qualifying - when you need them to drive a perfect lap, they usually do.
Alonso is not that good in qualifying pace and has to overtake more (he's good at doing that though) but that's because he doesn't have the raw speed Hamilton and Vettel do. In race it's about consistence with speed and saving tires which Alonso probably does best of the three but if he starts from behind the two it's very hard for him to pass.
I don't know if you see my point but I'd rather be fastest in quali and keep my position during the race (that's what every driver wants) than be forced to start from behind and be forced to overtake a lot.
BTW, I've seen amazing passes from Vettel (against Alonso in Monza for example) that proves he's capable of overtaking. His car isn't designed to overtake but to win, that's why it's harder for them to overtake if needed. It's not about the driver it's about the car.
Also Red Bull are making changes to the car after (probably to gain better overtaking ability for it) which in my mind can be used against Vettel if he manages to overtake (assuming Red Bull can make the car very good in possible overtaking areas of the track)
With DRS implemented you actually don't need to even know how to overtake properly but in some tracks just press a button and if your car is faster you're past the opponent. How is overtaking ability from a driver important or a measure of greatness if you don't need it? Racing is about winning and winning only.
Vettel has a car that can win races by up to 20 seconds - I really don't see how him starting from the back in a car that is capable of that is going to prove he is an amazing driver. He needs to start from the back in a Ferrari, or drive in a car other than Red Bull without Newey and then we can compare.
Hamilton crashes into a few people and acts like a retard - people think he's great.
Vettel drives a race car faster and better than most whilst remaining a decent bloke - somehow not good enough?
Vettel drives a race car faster and better than most whilst remaining a decent bloke - somehow not good enough?
ftfy
Of course... I wouldn't expect you of all people to understand. F1 is a bit beyond you.
No, the actuality is that YOU don't understand ME. I spun that text around to see if you'd realize how ironic it is and how similar it is to a pro Hamilton VS Vettel argument. but funnily enough you ignored the comparison.
Plus, it just shows your hate for Hamilton the fact you brought it up for no reason. Do you really hate black people THAT much?
Formula One Season 2012
(1268 posts, started )
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