The point about money is about how much time it would take to do some of the other penalties suggested, which means that I would spend my entire life for a week dealing with preQ in addition to my other jobs. It's a point as to the trade off and where the effort becomes more than the fun intended for the effort I already put in.
You are allowed a small allowance for wrong-way driving as part of recovering from a spin. Forcing yourself to spin exiting the pits would generally mean we would allow you the room it would take to do a U-Turn to head back into the pitlane.
Anyone trying to exit through the entry is doing so to GAIN TIME. Even if it's just to start the lap quicker, it's still gaining time by circumventing the rules, which is cheating and unsporting.
I know you race in real life, so I expect you to have a better sense of what proper racing conduct is, but you are not showing that.
If you're the only one on track, should I let you get away with using a speedhack, or using a clutch macro, or any other unorthodox method to circumvent the allowed things?
It was advertised before the Pre-Qualifying started that you were not to go the wrong way exiting the pitlane, else you would be excluded from the session. If you, or anyone felt that that penalty was too harsh, the time to complain was begun as soon as that was posted for this round, or in the previous races where we've had that in place for Westhill. Complaining after it affects your team comes off as trite, and trying to be exempt from the rules because you were alone on course.
Right, so now I am a cheater and what I did was as bad as using a speed-hack. Yeah, maybe I'll try that next time.
Come on, this is way out of proportions.
there is plenty of warning given.
Also it is a live session and you cannot go backwards on the track in any sense. Just accept the penalty and don't make it worse for yourself
It's really fun to see the Kings-bros defending something they have FINALLY DONE SOMETHING THAT IS ACCORDING TO THE RULES AND THERE WERE ACTUALLY PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T DO THAT.
Sorry, it's just funny for me, not saying anything about the DSQ (Yes, my team was disqualified, but I'll keep it to myself, we already discussed that inside the team) but this is really funny stuff what those two are doing. I admire Deko and Tommy somehow keeping the discussion to normal level, but seriously Kings, dafuq? You are not the ones to say something like that.
If you only investigate protested episodes, this would not take much time at all. How many protests are there in a pre-qual? I would bet quite few, if any.
Yeah, because it is so much fun driving out of pit lane. I did not this to GAIN TIME, I did it to SAVE TIME. We have "unlimited time" in a pre-qualifying session. I really fail to see how this is relevant or any advantage in that manner, sorry.
Excuse me? To make it clear, I was always aware of where anyone were at the track. I never left the pit the wrong way if I had any chance of even being seen by a driver starting or finishing their lap. I had no intentions to disturb or screw up for someone else. Neither did I. I cannot see that what I did was a break of proper racing conduct, really. In real life, the admins would not disqualify me for the whole race if I crossed the blend-line at the pit-exit in practice, and remind all drivers before qualifying that it is not allowed, even when it is clearly stated in the rules before-hand (and this even has a safety aspect, something we do not need to consider in LFS). Not that I have done it... but I know many who has. Same thing should have been applied here. If someone did it in the real qual, sure. If someone did in pre-qual, remind all drivers that it is not allowed before qual, when everyone is on the server. If someone does it in pre-qual and creates a crash/it is being protested, sure, apply a penalty.
Thats my suggestion.
Again, I cannot see how you can compare these things. They are totally unrelated. What I and others did, was by no way an attempt to cheat (as in gaining an unfair advantage). Comparing this to using a speedhack, is to go way too far. The rule is there to prevent crashes, not to avoid people gaining an unfair advantage.
Sorry, I missed this. I made a mistake, I agree. I usually always read the full rules before a race, but a pre-qual should be fairly straight forward. Set a time and do not **** up for others. I know I am not the only one who has done a minor mistake, even with texts having been posted. I know this is not fair, but since you brought up the racing driver argument, I'll go with this. Remember BL1? Even though you were told the grid was wrong, it still went on that way (even though it was corrected during a later SC). What would your penalty be? A fine? That would have been just as stupid.
Thats my cents. This seems more like politics and administrative stuff rather than racing. I play LFS for fun and things like these can really kill it in my opinion.
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by Bmxtwins
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by dekojester : Become mature, please
I did not want to take part in this discussion, but I feel the problem is quite simple here… I have a lot of respect for you Tommy and I’d love to see TRR come back to serious racing, but you need to put yourself in an admin shoes here. Every time Deko takes a decision a tiny bit outside the rules, many ppls are there to contest and complain that he doesn’t respect his own rules (rightfully). I mean it is common sense not to exit the pit from the pit entry, but could have been forgiven if he had not mentioned it on the forum prior to the prequal, so if you ask me, he has no choice but to apply the rules or lose the driver’s respect for failing at enforcing them.
You may race for fun, but you know that sim racers do take their leagues very seriously…
What’s really sad is to see how many drivers thought it could be done!
To be honest, I do not think anyone would even mention it. If some had protested it, sure.
But I am not saying I did not make a mistake. I did. What I am complaining about is the extremely harsh penalty we got from this. I still fail to see how what I did was THAT bad. I am put in the same boat as a cheater. This is what I mean about politics. The harsh penalty we got for doing something that didnt hurt anyone.
I cannot see how this mistake is anywhere close to the penalty applied. Its not like it will harm anyone. We have a map on LFS, we know where all cars are. I am not saying what I did should be legal, I am saying the penalty is out of porportions.
It was pretty much in the rules for this round Tommy, If you'd read them and understood them this discussion would not have existed, it's your own fault, bite your shoe, move on.
If i was Deko in this situation, and you'd kept reasoning your fault with me, I would've excluded you from the series with the reason 'simply not applying to rules'.
A simple r/w barrier would've made people think before do.
Im with a bit of mixed feelings tbh. For the sake of applying the rules, sending out a message to the public that rules are strictly followed its right thing to do. But on the other side of the coin, we cant compare sim racing to rl simply because we're at home, cant get hurt (except if you lay your chin on the wheel and some one hits hard your car ).
In my view, the actual penalty given for breaking this specific rule is a tad too harsh. We're in a situation that the grid will have 2 empty spaces not because of lack of interest but because the rules say so. Rules usually are made to help contain a certain process in a pre-set margins and if the process goes beyond the margin - to be corrected by the "rules". In simple words - the rule as it is now is more of a hurdle than of any help.
In conclusion, i would just suggest invalidating the times infringing the rule, coming last in the pre qual order - filling up the remains of the spaces and enjoying the full grid in the race.
After all, this is pre qual, we run a more relaxed session (reset,spec,pit).
It is not my place to discuss the penalty, but your biggest mistake was to not read the prequali topic or you would have known the consequences for doing so. I do feel bad for you and I wish Deko had another way to handle this, but he chose to give a hard penalty to make sure no one would do it and that only works when ppls read the instructions, Any way it is not the first time in racing that a team got disqualified for misreading or not reading the rules/briefings/instructions, that sucks, but that’s why you got the penalty at the first place….last time I was in 4H of SPA classic the team next to us got disqualified because the guy holding the fire extinguisher was like 60 cm next to the place specified in the briefing, very unfair for ppls who spent lots of money and months preparing, but when I chatted with them after the race, they had only one conclusion: Read the fu..ing manual FFS!
The only thing that can be done do avoid something like this happens again is to place a long wall on pit entry, just because common sense isn’t enough in sim racing!
Was it in the rules you must come to the Pre-qual thread and read it through to the full extent? To be honest I thought the only reason this thread was created was the indicate when Pre-qual had started, finished and the results.
No, but if you have a tiny bit of experience you should know that you have to read everything posted by the race director, why do you think he spend time writing it, just so that it looks good in the topic?...cmon James!
And what is it with this habit to attempt to manipulate racing organisers to change their decisions?
Fram we both share the same opinion about these forums. Its not mandatory to check the Pre-qual briefing only the race briefing, my drivers rarely check the forums as its full of flame wars and trolls, I'm at school most of the day and can't pass the message onto my driver when he Pre-quals. If he doesn't check the forums how is he supposed to know about this rule?
It may be common sense but when you join a sever and see other people doing it and are unaware of the rule how can you expect any different? A message attatched to the welcome message warning about the rule would have sufficed but there was none.
And no I'm not protesting. Deko said he needs help and self governing well here it is, I'm pointing out the issues with the rule book so this doesn't happen next time. My suggestion is a welcome message stating the rule, but ofc we all know these forums and I'm bound to be flamed and trolled for whatever I say.
I fully accept the penalty given to my team for the first time this season, however im pointing out if it isn't mandatory to read the Pre-qual briefing how are people to know?
It is not admins duty to hold everyone's hand when crossing the road, clean their bottoms after potty etc etc. Admins put the information in the same place for everyone. Saying your drivers don't check the forums is laughable, as I see posts from people in Vires every bloody day.
Laughable. For someone who "isn't trying to overturn the decision and has accepted it" you sure are complaining a lot and not accepting it!!!
That's pretty rich, write vague rules an implement rules which arn't even in the full rule book and when people don't see it and make a mistake you turn around and say its not your job to hold our hand? Wow.
Okay Chris if you wish to go down that road please heck the last time Ben was active on these forums. I don't wish you be sarcastic and pedantic but if I'm going to have to trawl forums to find we rules then where is my £25,000 a year so I can leave education and persue this as a full time job?
We've fallen foul of the rules again and I accept that - I'm more upset for TRR and Tommy than I am for my own teams car. Im not the only one complaining, don't you think by the sheer amount of people doing the wrong way that there is an issue with communication between admins and drivers? How hard would it have been to add the rule into a welcome message? I agree that after that of the rule is still broken then the punishment should still stand.
I'll leave that there for now, I'm not looking for an argument I'm looking for an amendment to the rules.
It's not as though it's a new thing James, it's been in every NDR pre-qual event for enough of a period of time!
It takes all of two seconds to look at a forum and go "oh look" you are spending enough time arguing about this for me to suggest you have enough time to look at the forum once a day. As Deko said, give him money and he can come and make sure you get a PM every second of the day. Oh wait, he has to work two jobs just to earn a half decent living!! £25,000?? Haha!!
There was no communication issue with the admins. Admins put the message out there for the drivers/teams to see in the way they usually do, and it is up to the drivers/managers to see and adhere to this message. Plenty of teams/drivers saw the message and adhered to the rules.
It's up to each driver to make sure he is at the drivers meeting to get the needed information just like in real life, in this case the preQ thread. Even though the preQ thread wasn't the "official" drivers meeting, but could be considered one since the sessions (preQ-race) are so far away from each other and it's an official session.
Can't believe people still after all these years hasn't understood that taking wrong route is not allowed in official session, unbelieveable.
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