Sick of people comparing Vettel to Senna and how Senna would have done it...

We are in a different era to team orders and how drivers respect each other...

This isnt being a fanboy, but its such a shame to compare the two. Senna stood for something far more greater than Vettel.

Of course that most people who like racing, won´t be happy about team orders, but in the end they make perfect sense. We´re not talking about a bunch of friends that decide to take their cars for a track day, for the fun of it... There´s to much money involved, too much work from many people to just put everything in risk by someone just thinking about himself.
Regarding Vettel, in my opinion, what is regretable, is not so much him not following his team orders, but doing what he did, knowing that Webber wouldn´t expect to be attacked by him and that he was using settings that reduced his car´s performance. That´s not a champion never giving up on winning a race... He had almost the entire race to overtake Webber and never managed to be close enough to do it, and then attacked him when he knew it wouldn´t be a fair fight, not because Webber wasn´t in condition to fight, but because he was instructed not to fight. He showed a total lack of respect to his team and teammate, and that´s not what a true champion is made of, regardless of how many wins and titles he may have...

Quote from Intrepid :

Schumacher went to a struggling team to bring them glory.

which worked since he was able to bring key people over from benetton who had been the dominant team at the time with the best cars and had brought him his first success
so im guessing if vettel switches to lets say force india and is able to bring newey with him he will suddenly turn into the best driver of this decade in your illogical mind?

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Right now Vettel just suckles for survival on the genius tit of Adrian Newey.

which clearly must be the reason behind all this success since he british?
lets ignore the fact that vettel has come close to doubling the points haul of his team mate in the last 2 seasons

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wtf are you on about with the war stuff?

you started with the rules of combat rubbish

I hope people see through this Pirelli Bullshit already, the series shouldn't be based on who can underdrive the best, it is the root of all garbage in F1.

Yes, it was much better when everyone drove flat out between fuel stops without even attempting to overtake on track most of the time.

Even better when they had lots of fuel, qualified on lots of fuel, and had to have a needless pitstop enforced on them to give a vague chance of overtaking (which happened even less on track).

No, I'm not a fan of DRS because its too strong and can't be defended against half the time, but I like the Pirelli tyres. Yes, they're engineered to be artificially 'bad', but that's much better than having tyres that are too good.

When you have drivers complaining that they are basically in 'cruise' mode for most of the race in what's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport, then I think there's a problem. I think it's mind-numbing watching drivers save tyres. If there was a mix with Hamilton at one end and button at the other, then fine... but not ALL drivers doing exactly the same thing. But admittedly if you want 'action' packed races with a formula that's massively dependant on aero then these are the extremes you have to take.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yes, it was much better when everyone drove flat out between fuel stops without even attempting to overtake on track most of the time.

Even better when they had lots of fuel, qualified on lots of fuel, and had to have a needless pitstop enforced on them to give a vague chance of overtaking (which happened even less on track).

No, I'm not a fan of DRS because its too strong and can't be defended against half the time, but I like the Pirelli tyres. Yes, they're engineered to be artificially 'bad', but that's much better than having tyres that are too good.

Problem is im not against the other stuff, keep DRS as well i would prefer having that then everyone in cruise mode, where not seeing new talent properly all we are seeing is new buttons who can save Tyres well and undercut others like Perez last year then in other races being completely outclassed when its not as much of an issue.

Anyone who races themselves either real of sim in these kind of conditions would of said this is crap and done something else, only the allure of F1 is keeping drivers doing this crap.

Quote from Mustafur :

Problem is im not against the other stuff, keep DRS as well i would prefer having that then everyone in cruise mode, where not seeing new talent properly all we are seeing is new buttons who can save Tyres well and undercut others like Perez last year then in other races being completely outclassed when its not as much of an issue.

Anyone who races themselves either real of sim in these kind of conditions would of said this is crap and done something else, only the allure of F1 is keeping drivers doing this crap.

In LFS endurance racing, anyway, there's always a struggle to make cars work on the softest tire possible without a blowout at the end of your stint. Lots of teams don't make it work on the softer tire, and they lose out big. It's all part of the game, so to speak, and it's fun trying to get it right.

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

In LFS endurance racing, anyway, there's always a struggle to make cars work on the softest tire possible without a blowout at the end of your stint. Lots of teams don't make it work on the softer tire, and they lose out big. It's all part of the game, so to speak, and it's fun trying to get it right.

Imagen that but on every tyre and the tyres going to crap if you just did 1 lap at the limit.

7 points could make thedifference in the end. Dont be so hard on vettel

Quote from Bmxtwins :

7 points could make thedifference in the end. Dont be so hard on vettel

from a race perspective i didn't mind it, but its highly disrespectful to his employer what he did.

Quote from Mustafur :

from a race perspective i didn't mind it, but its highly disrespectful to his employer what he did.

He wouldn't be the first, and won't be the last to disobey team orders. Webber has already committed that sin more than once. Many others in the past have done the same, even among current drivers in recent years.

Far from judging the wrongness or righteousness of either driver, the only thing clear from the most recent fracas is that team orders suck.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

Wibber needs to start intentionally costing Vetl as much time as possible, whenever possible. A good example was the T2 pass attempt. Vetel had forced him way of the racing line in 1. Instead of surging across the track to take a wide exit, just park it in the inside/middle and come to a near-complete stop, forcing Veetl to go to the outside. Then, take a normal wide exit and force him to either drive off the track or brake. Or, whenever Wibster is taking the inside line against Vettle, push him all the way to the white line every time instead of keeping it tight. If he turns in while on the outside, it's his fault.

http://media.theage.com.au/sel ... ff-the-track-4138013.html

Paul Stoddart, I miss that guy!

Quote from Mustafur :

from a race perspective i didn't mind it, but its highly disrespectful to his employer what he did.

What's a race driver if he isn't allowed to race.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

What's a race driver if he isn't allowed to race.

The same as a racing driver who is allowed to race - just one of the team's hundreds of employees.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

What's a race driver if he isn't allowed to race.

whats a race driver if he has nothing to race?

Quote from Bmxtwins :

What's a race driver if he isn't allowed to race.

That wasn't a race that was "hey Webber look, naked Jessica Alba on the stands!, haha sucker" *goes past him

What is a wood chuck if there's no wood to chuck?

Quote from Bmxtwins :

7 points could make thedifference in the end. Dont be so hard on vettel

A team and teammate who have at least a little bit of respect left for you over 90% of the season is worth more than 7 points.

The unrest and shift in balance within the team that this incident has caused is not worth 7 points. We'll see what sort of ripple effect this has on the rest of the season.

Well you say that, but if you throw away 7 points you cant make that back, you can regain the trust of your team. I don't think Webber will forgive Vettel, I don't think they liked each other anyway but the team will forgive him I think because it's in their own interest to forgive him. I personally expect they will just say it's been sorted behind closed doors by the time we roll up at the next grand prix.

It's kind of funny how some people think the team orders and mercedes are lewis' fault. The call to hold positions came from ross brawn and lewis can do as much about it as nico and yet some people are saying lewis should have let nico past. If the team boss says hold positions then surely passing a team mate is as much forbidden as letting one by too...

"It's hamilton's fault"..?

Quote from IsaacPrice :

Well you say that, but if you throw away 7 points you cant make that back, you can regain the trust of your team. I don't think Webber will forgive Vettel, I don't think they liked each other anyway but the team will forgive him I think because it's in their own interest to forgive him. I personally expect they will just say it's been sorted behind closed doors by the time we roll up at the next grand prix.

Nah. This things stay with fans, forever. Perhaps a nice way to look at it in LFS terms is our bl1 tbo race where I barely raced you and gave away 25 points, which in the end didn't mean nothing to me anyway, other than that I didn't cause a crash with you, who are not even my teammate. And Vettel is already plenty hated enough.

P.S. OMG Look at the title on autosport column "Vettel: the monster Red Bull created" << exactly what I thought and to some extent implied in previous posts, and it's not the sort of cool monster we joke around as some kids.

Ultimately, Mateschitz is in charge and he seems to be close to Webber, although I'm sure he's not against Vettel after what they have acheived together. If the man writing all the cheques says something needs to happen though then you never know how things will turn out.

Ye Mateschitz and Webber are close but I think Dietrich understands that fundamentally the 2009 and subsequent cars were children of Newey and Webber and that Vettel wouldn't have jack if it wasn't for Webber.