Hi - new to lfs, s2 license, and I'm practicing to try and get good enough to race w/ real people. One of the things I'm trying to learn is how to pass without running into other cars. The AI guys seem to be fairly willing to bump into me, but I want to get better at judging when I can pass safely. Any suggestions? Right now I'm putting slower AI guys in front of me and doing single player.
Also, right now I'm running about 1:39 to 1:41 on Blackwood with the XR GT. How fast should I get before looking to race on a server? Don't want to be a rolling obstacle, and I know I'm way off the WR's. Thanks!
Just get onto a server and start to drive with other drivers. The AI's ignores the Clean Driving Rules and you will not learn a lot getting by them as they will stay on the racing line never mind what. Exception is when your AI's drive a lot and gain experience.
Anyway - first get yourself up to speed, learn to drive good lines, try to stay with other drivers, how to get out of the way of faster drivers.
Passing other drivers... first see whether it is really something to be bothered about at this moment.
Drop by at the Gentleman Drivers Club server when it is not private, you will learn a lot and get lots of help.
btw, as long as you do not mess up other drivers' races, being courteous and cautious, you will be welcome on any racing server, never mind your times.
and the best way to learn is to just take the leap and sign up for a league!
I signed up for the OLFSL 2011 league 2 months after starting with LFS, qualified dead last, 95 out of 95, for the first race, but darn, I learned a lot during that season!
With these times you shouldn't be worrying too much about passing others,to be honest.
Just join a demo server with 3-5 people in it,race. Stay sharp,check situation on track,be aware of others around you,use minimap/mirrors if necessary. And have fun!
Thanks - so I should maybe focus on getting out of the way. OK to be a slowpoke if I'm a polite / aware slowpoke. Guess I should keep working on getting faster too.
You will find that if you let it be known that your new then others may be more forgiving for any incidents and also there will be racers more than willing to help
Firstly, as long as you stay careful, know basic rules, and respect others, you're welcomed to take part in casual public races. Double check if you're going into an league.
At the moment, as Eclipsed has pointed out, you should NOT be worried about passing. Your stability of control is simply not enough for that kind of training. Drive alone, or follow some cars without attempting to pass. If single player gets boring let some friends help, but do NOT try to race bumper to bumper. It does more harm than good.
Watch how others drive, and try to copy what they do. It's the best way to get started.
Thanks for the advice. I have downloaded some of the fast runs and watched how they drive the track with the XRG. I am just much slower through the hairpin. (Also I'm often not as clean through the last "s"). The runs I've looked at have a controlled oversteer at the beginning of the turn that angles them nicely to follow the line through the curve, and they do all their braking/downshifting from 50m mark in. So that's definitely an area of control and stability that I can't match right now. I can mod the car to take out the oversteer and get a little cleaner and faster, but it's clear that's not what the faster drivers are doing.
OK, I'll keep plugging away. Thanks again for the advice.
As others have said, best way to learn is join some good servers that have Admins/Mods present watch a few laps then join at the back of the grid and try and keep pace. Also as mentioned if you explain you're new people will (usually!) be a lot more understanding and helpful.
Have you tried some pre made setups? if not try out a few different sets that others have uploaded. Best places are http://www.setupgrid.net/ and http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu/ they will help you a lot if you're just using the stock lfs ones.
To use them click the combo you want (xrg/bl1 or whatever) download it and save in your LFS\Data\setups folder you can then select it in the car/pit screen on the right hand side list.
SetupGrid/SetupField setups are usually made to be running on the bleeding edge. Are they really good for beginners?
There used to be some "easy race" setups lying around. They could be outdated though. Are there any up-to-date sets of this kind? Maybe we can make some for STD/TBO cars?
I pulled XRG_bl1_Dark[_hot off of the setupfield site and it seems to fit my driving style pretty well. I was able to knock another 1/2 second off my PB - now down to 1:38.38. Doing a little statistical analysis of each split compared with a hotlap I downloaded. (I'm an engineer, and couldn't resist). I'm most inconsistent on the last section of track, but I'm closest in time to the hotlap. My middle split is 1.25 seconds slower - that's the one with the biggest difference. Anyway, I've got a setup that I feel good about, and I'm getting a feel for where I have the most trouble.
So if you're looking for a setup a beginner can handle, I would recommend "Dark". I tried several others and was all over the place.
As others have already said, don't bother with the ai drivers, you wont learn a lot.. try and get online and just race behind the others. It's also good to watch the other drivers from their incar view (assuming thats the view you drive from). As long as you're a safe and polite driver there are plenty of people out there willing to help!
Dark's setup is a good set too, it's the one I learnt in, with his help
The xrg is a tricky car though, especially around bl1.. Personally I found it a lot easier after spending time in the xfg, but thats just me. Also, trying to drive like the top hotlap laps probably isn't as good as watching and getting help online tbh, as there will be a lot of differences between your driving and theirs, which can be difficult to spot yourself and can get you into bad habits (I always oversteered ridiculously trying to copy fast drivers turn ins, when really the trick is to sit on the edge of where the grip is, so not sliding but not understeering, and steer a lot with the throttle).
At the end of the day it just takes practice - soon enough you'll be up there in the thick of it I'm sure.. My advice is just get online, look at others driving and even ask if they're willing to spectate you and help out a bit..
And you're welcome to give my setup a try, its on setupgrid I'm pretty sure.. although you may find you prefer dark's - I do like having a tail happy car
No doubt that is a nice set to drive. However you are losing alot of time...as Jinja said the XFG is a better car to get a grip for the game in general.
If you can find some friendly guys online that will spectate you for a few laps no doubt they can help to guide you....good luck.
Go for some sets from setupgrid/setupfeild and then tweak them to so you race good in them you will learn more this way and you will get a setup that is more suited for you and not someone else
come along to Launch Racing server to race some time all of our members will help you out with anything you need
Thanks again for all the advice - lots of friendly folks here. I started LFS as a way to get some autocross practice - looking to try out autocross this year, but I got hooked on the GP racing. Started with the XFG, but moved to the XRG since most of the other cars are RWD and I learned to drive on RWD cars.
It looks like the consensus is I need to watch / follow better drivers to get a better picture for what they do, and where I lose time.
BTW, 2 glasses of wine after work do not seem to help the lap times for XFG or XRG much at all.
Easiest way to pass is to take advantage of the mistakes from other cars. As you are still rather slow, the drivers that you have a chance of passing will be as "bad" (as in bad lines, brake points etc) as you and probally make many mistakes that you can exploit.
If you follow people for a few turns/laps you might notice they slide or run very wide through a corner and then it is easy to pass.
Passing on straight can also work well if you exit the previous corner with more speed. Blackwood is good example, passing in hairpin/chicance is tricky even if you are faster. But on the straight it is easy if you cleanly exit the chicance with more speed.
since you are serious enough to be looking at WR hotlaps from www.lfsworld.net , you can benefit a lot from the RAFA tool to see exactly what to do to make up the time difference. (seeing does not equal doing though heh).
check this out:
-save a hotlap. (choose hotlap mode in LFS. when you're done the lap press 1.)
-log in to lfsworld
-choose "S2 hotlaps" icon
-choose "hotlap charts tab"
-on lower right use "upload a hotlap" section.
-choose file, navigate to <lfs_folder>\data\spr, then sort by date to find your latest hotlap easily
-choose "racer details" tab of s2 hotlaps window
-click the track/car combo text in the first column: track. in your case "bl GP/ XRG" (tooltip appears saying "click to see this chart")
-this brings you to the relevant chart with your hotlap on the current page (you may have to scroll.)
-find your racername in the list and click the "C" just after your country flag
-at the bottom of the lap chart, select page 1
-click the "C" after the country flag in the first row.
-the right side of the window updates with the time differences. just after the times, there is a button "compare in the hotlap analyser". this opens the RAFA tool with your hotlap and the WR loaded.
** welcome to the uber-cool world of LFS **
to use this tool:
very briefly, your time is based on how early in the corner you get on full throttle, the speed you manage to keep up to the throttle-on point, plus how rapidly you can brake at the end of a straight.
the difficulty is:
5% braking at threshold from braking point
10% keeping throttle floored after getting on it (wiggle the wheel a bit)
85% be smooth enough at end of braking to turn the car from the straight-line of threshold braking to the proper attitude / balance needed to receive 100% throttle, simultaneously not slowing too much and using the full potential of the front tires to turn in.
having the proper set takes a lot of the fun out of the 10% part. if you have a set not quite right for the track, this part can be impossible, and if you do have a "perfect" set it's a bit disappointingly easy.
the RAFA window defaults to a speed graph in the top left window. for blackwood gp this goes up then drops sharply and to its lowest point. put your cursor on the minimum point for the red line (the slower car - you i assume!)
at this point the graphic on the upper right shows you where in the corner you started to accelerate.
if the blue line goes lower and hits minimum sooner, the WR holder slowed down more and earlier in the corner, turned harder, and got back on the gas earlier than you getting more pace the whole way to the next corner.
if the blue line doesn't go as low as yours, the tires are capable of more G-force than you are using, and you are slower through the corner and the whole way to the next. a lot of times the set makes a big difference here.
the throttle graph in the lower window will show you the blue car has the throttle down earlier and generally more.
you can call up brake graphs, gear graphs, even setup info, but the two default screens are enough to get you within a few percent of the WR pace.
RAFA can surprise you by showing you that you likely hit the same top speed (or nearly) as a top driver, and lose time in places you didn't expect. try to apply the facts you see on the graph to how your car enters and exits the corners. it's a mental game with yourself - that is if your set is sufficient.
you should definitely drive online even if you're slow. you'll get a feel for how to pass by watching how others pass you. since i learned to race strictly in lfs i can tell you what a learned about how to pass:
always pass on the inside, unless you're drafting and they cover the inside
come up more or less straight behind people so they see you coming.
if you're catching up to a driver, but only barely, the only way to pass may be to be far enough away going into a corner to go faster through the corner without having to let up not to hit them, yet not so far that you don't get alongside before the next corner. especially in the slower cars, momentum through the corner is probably where you can be quicker so this is the approach to use.
the best drivers never seem to slow down much on the way by. bad drivers like me tend to get stuck behind slightly slower drivers. i think it has something to do with raw aggression. i used to run into people too often, especially braking side by side at the end of a straight, so i guess i got into the habit of slowing up as i caught up to another driver. the best pilots seem to just keep their momentum and drive around. getting a lot of laps in and having the confidence when slightly off-line makes the difference i think.
Thanks for the info - don't apologize at all for the "wall of text". This should be a lot more informative than just looking at the split times to try and figure out where I need to improve the most. Good level of detail for me - time to upload a hotlap and face the graphs.
Good luck
Allot of people are willing to help you.
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