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2013 Nürburgring Grand Prix
(129 posts, started )
Quote from DevilDare :So can we stop saying now that Mercedes tire test helped them solve their problems?

Don't worry they still have no clue. All teams have no clue.

"We just have to keep pushing forward and pray and hope that when they bring the new batch of tyres they work on our car."
-LH

Pray and hope that when sunday comes the track temperature and the balance of the car are where they need to be. There's not much else they can do.
The pit incidents were rather awful, perhaps there needs to be a rule that a car must stay in the box with nobody touching it for at least 1-2 seconds once all work on it has been done. In order to allow for reaction time, or something. Shame that Ricciardo couldn't convert his great pole into anything. Master strategists at work at Lotus again. Nice last few laps, and a darned shame that Hamilton wasn't able to keep the lead off the start.

Mercedes had been doing well in all races between their test and the latest tyre regulation changes, it's still not possible to call it either way in terms of the test or these changes.
Quote from Kid222 :Lotus showed in last 2 races that their pit strategy is not at their best.

I have to disagree because the strategy for Grosjean was excellent, and for a while he was in positon to win the race, but the unexpected safety car destroyed the work.
Flying tire hot damn
Quote from devildare :so can we stop saying now that mercedes tire test helped them solve their problems?

+1
How can Red Bull be so consistent and ****ing up ONLY Webbers pitstops?....
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(CSF) DELETED by CSF
It tends to be when they hire the best possible crew for onw driver and cheapen out on the other.

But at the same time webbers crew do hold the pit stop record so who knows.
Webber doesn't really have significantly worse luck than Vettel. Webber maybe has worse luck with pitstops, but then everyone forgets how many times Vettel has had car failures compared to Webber in the last 3-4 years. Vettel has had some issues in pitstops, Silverstone 2011 springs to mind.
Quote from IsaacPrice :Webber doesn't really have significantly worse luck than Vettel. Webber maybe has worse luck with pitstops, but then everyone forgets how many times Vettel has had car failures compared to Webber in the last 3-4 years. Vettel has had some issues in pitstops, Silverstone 2011 springs to mind.

Look at how many times Webber has had KERS failure VS how many times Vettel has had KERS failure.
Quote from IsaacPrice :Webber doesn't really have significantly worse luck than Vettel.

Look at Vettels retirements compared to Webbers in the same team. Then subtract the retirements of Vettels that were his own fault and you're left with a million retirements that were all not Webbers own doing.
#61 - CSF
Quote from BlueFlame :Look at Vettels retirements compared to Webbers in the same team. Then subtract the retirements of Vettels that were his own fault and you're left with a million retirements that were all not Webbers own doing.

Okay lets do that:

2009:

Vettel - 2 Mech Retirements (Hungary and Europe)

Webber - 1 Mech Retirement (Singapore)

2010:

Vettel - 2 Mech Retirements (Australia and Korea)

Webber - 0 Mech Retirements!

2011:

Vettel - 1 Mech Retirement (Abu Dhabi)

Webber - 0 Mech Retirements!

2012:

Vettel - 2 Mech Retirements (Europe and Italy)

Webber - 1 Mech Retirement (USA)

2013

Vettel - 1 Mech Retirement (GBR)

Webber - 0 Mech Retirements!


Since 2009

Vettel 7 Mech Retirements

Webber 2 Mech Retirements


Ho hum, must be a conspiracy against Vettel.
lol what sort of argument is that. It only shows that Vettel is simply using more of his car.

Pit-stop fails, that's different.
#63 - CSF
lol okay, you can keep changing the argument until you find an area where Webber will be more 'unlucky' all you like, but it won't change much.

Webber isn't badly treated in Red Bull, he simply hasn't been as consistent as his team-mate, and isn't on it at every track in the season, much like Rubens Barrichello before him when in the same team as a dominant team-mate.

Webber actually got some good luck yesterday, as for some reason the Safety Car was extended in order for him to catch up to the pack when they usually just release them with the lapped cars half way around. Apparently some teams, rightly, complained about that.
csf stop making me laugh. Noone ever said he's quicker or as quick as RBR's love child. He just will under no circumstance win a race under equal terms this year as long as Seb is in the race without any mechanical issue and is still gunning for the title.
#65 - CSF
Or he has a great chance and will blow it himself like at Silverstone.
Or Korea 2010. He saks. Team helps him to sak. Bring on some young blood dat feeds on pressure.
CSF, I don't think we are talking about the stuff that makes him retire, but things that screw over his race (like yesterday).
#68 - CSF
Quote from Gougoodthing :CSF, I don't think we are talking about the stuff that makes him retire, but things that screw over his race (like yesterday).

Quote from BlueFlame :Look at Vettels retirements compared to Webbers in the same team. Then subtract the retirements of Vettels that were his own fault and you're left with a million retirements that were all not Webbers own doing.

If you read the quote that I was initially responding too, you will see Blueflame was indeed talking about mechanical retirements. Or that's how I read that line anyway. Though I'd suspect Mark has had more collision retirements in the last five seasons too...

I agree though, Webber v KERS in 2012 did cost him a couple of second places, though yesterday it was the other Red Bull with a KERS issue.
Quote from CSF :though yesterday it was the other Red Bull with a KERS issue.

Which point in the race was that?
#70 - CSF
oh plis u take BlueFlame seriously
Quote from N I K I :lol what sort of argument is that. It only shows that Vettel is simply using more of his car.

Those days are LONG gone. Webber is no harder or less hard on his car than Vettel. F1 cars are engineered beyond the driver having any influence over its reliability. Everything is monitored. Everything is protected by electronics. The only thing a driver can really influence is tyre wear, brake wear (within tight limits), fuel consumption (within tight limits) and clutch wear (within tight limits).

I don't think Webber has had more problems from the above than Vettel, or vice versa.
Quote from tristancliffe :Those days are LONG gone. Webber is no harder or less hard on his car than Vettel. F1 cars are engineered beyond the driver having any influence over its reliability. Everything is monitored. Everything is protected by electronics. The only thing a driver can really influence is tyre wear, brake wear (within tight limits), fuel consumption (within tight limits) and clutch wear (within tight limits).

I don't think Webber has had more problems from the above than Vettel, or vice versa.

Not true. Just for example, Hamilton destroyed a number of McLaren gearboxes that are beyond counting. Sometimes a driver just misuses some part of the car. No monitoring can help heal that. However, Webber has destroyed so many KERS units it's hard to count too.

Nevertheless, what driver does not have any influence over is a pit-stop, ergo how team is helping him to suck. :lovies3d:
Besides, since they can influence anything in car thru electronics from pits, I wouldn't be surprised that Webber has sudden mechanical failure which you count as out of his control, obviously triggered to get him out of Vettel's way. Eitherway, it won't be necessary since Seb is romping away comfortably.
Hamilton didn't destroy those gearboxes. They went wrong. Nothing to do with him.
Webber didn't (and couldn't) destroy a KERS system. It's just impossible.

Electronics aren't adjustable from the pits - that's why the driver has so many knobs on the steering wheel; he has to do it.

There are better ways of ruining Webbers race than not fitting a wheel properly. Get the pressures wrong. Not have it in the pitlane when he arrives. Have the tyre blankets set too low. There are millions of ways he could be disadvantaged (although I would bet he isn't), but your suggestions are stupid.

As conspiracy theories go yours is just dumb, illogical and impossible.
wow you're colorful aren't you.

FYI just have a look how Hamilton used gearbox at McLaren and how he is using it now and the amount of problems he is having with it.

Quote :Electronics aren't adjustable from the pits - that's why the driver has so many knobs on the steering wheel; he has to do it.

Anything can be pre-set in programming...

Quote :There are better ways of ruining Webbers race than not fitting a wheel properly. Get the pressures wrong. Not have it in the pitlane when he arrives. Have the tyre blankets set too low.

And you're absolute certain none of those was ever used... The pit-stop screw overs are just the most obvious ones. I guess you also believe that Obama is as much of a free president in making his decisions as Kennedy was.

2013 Nürburgring Grand Prix
(129 posts, started )
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