lemme guess is the answer posting pointless diatribes on a forum no one cares about?
lemme guess is the answer posting pointless diatribes on a forum no one cares about?
Sorry, burst your little bubble of the point of politics have I ?
So, provided you follow the idea it's all meaningful then an open conversation is fine, as soon as that idea is questioned then its abuse time.
Perhaps you should reread my post, then read some Eric Blair, or any of any number of writers who say the same thing. It's all smoke and mirrors, if people are distracted from the truth, then they'll spend their time arguing about a game.
" How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think "
So, provided you follow the idea it's all meaningful then an open conversation is fine, as soon as that idea is questioned then its abuse time.
Perhaps you should reread my post, then read some Eric Blair, or any of any number of writers who say the same thing. It's all smoke and mirrors, if people are distracted from the truth, then they'll spend their time arguing about a game.
" How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think "
Both major parties of most 1st world governments do the same thing, its their image that is different.
For all the left the left does there is an equalivent right keeping it centre and all the right a right does there is an equalivent left.
But me as someone who I consider my self a Social left Economically right, i see all Governemnts going in the left direction Socially and Economically but they implament left social action in a authatarion way.
Governments love power, afterall they are humans and if you allow them to have it by god they will take as much as they can.
For all the left the left does there is an equalivent right keeping it centre and all the right a right does there is an equalivent left.
But me as someone who I consider my self a Social left Economically right, i see all Governemnts going in the left direction Socially and Economically but they implament left social action in a authatarion way.
Governments love power, afterall they are humans and if you allow them to have it by god they will take as much as they can.
@flymike91
I know you must feel like a lonely voice in the wind but I think there are others, like me, who find your arguments informed and well expressed. But, for myself, I just don't see it as a useful allocation of time to try to convince liberals to change their view points.
I would be interested in learning if there is anyone here who has changed from liberal to conservative or conservative to liberal in the last few years and what it took to change you opinions.
I know you must feel like a lonely voice in the wind but I think there are others, like me, who find your arguments informed and well expressed. But, for myself, I just don't see it as a useful allocation of time to try to convince liberals to change their view points.
I would be interested in learning if there is anyone here who has changed from liberal to conservative or conservative to liberal in the last few years and what it took to change you opinions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
unfortunately the technology to promote brain cell growth past early childhood or to transplant a functioning brain into the head of a conservative isnt there yet
ironically in part thanks to conservatives stupidly slowing stem cell research down every step of the way
[QUOTE=Shotglass;1813270]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
http://www.princeton.edu/~acha ... pension_of_disbelief.html
I thought you should know not to use wikipedia as a source, or at least a credible one
http://www.princeton.edu/~acha ... pension_of_disbelief.html
I thought you should know not to use wikipedia as a source, or at least a credible one
keep digging that hole
not that anybody took you seriously 10 km of hole depth ago but still
not that anybody took you seriously 10 km of hole depth ago but still
Did you actually read other people's posts here ?, Mikes and Beckys are well worth reading.
The point I'm making is what type of society do you want ?. If you want to waste your time focused on difference, fine, you can spend the rest of your life getting into pointless arguments about how the left/right are wrong.
The point I'm making is both left and right labels are irrelivent. What actually is important is focussing on people.
Or, focus on worshipping mammon, after all, in our current society that's what's considered 'successful'.
The point I'm making is what type of society do you want ?. If you want to waste your time focused on difference, fine, you can spend the rest of your life getting into pointless arguments about how the left/right are wrong.
The point I'm making is both left and right labels are irrelivent. What actually is important is focussing on people.
Or, focus on worshipping mammon, after all, in our current society that's what's considered 'successful'.
i have read them and except for beckys they are generally impossible to take seriously
you and flymike are the honey boo boos of political debate
utterly retarded but somehow you cant look away
you and flymike are the honey boo boos of political debate
utterly retarded but somehow you cant look away
God made them conservative. Why would they go against god's will?
I don't know why they come to this forum anyway, it's like gay paradise in here.
Hey baby, £7.50 for a little sucky sucky. Interested? I'll take you to pleasuretown!
I'm probably the last person to agree with Mike on most of his post's, in this case he's right in my opinion.
What is politics, it's a way of avoiding facts.
So, lets look at reality, but wait, oh, look at that what that cute kittens doing..........
AND SO YOUR LIFE GOES ON.
I did, although not in the last few years. I was brought up very much on the Christian right, with 3 days bible study a week and an unhealthy dose of self loathing. When I left school there was a major depression, at that time the worst since the 20's. Thatcher was not long gone, and although I did not have the wisdom of my years it was clear to me that no government should be in power for 3 terms as corruption was rampant.
I voted Labour in my first general election, which saw them get in for Tony Blair's first term. Of course like all Brits I had no idea until he was long gone that Blair was a hard-right Conservative. It made no odds anyway, his first term was on the whole a positive thing and the change in and of itself was vital and refreshing.
As I came to terms with my own understanding of the universe and questioned my faith I began to realise the lunacy of it, I slowly began to realise that even if this God did exist then he must be an evil and cruel master and not representative of where I saw my role in life - as someone who genuinely cares about others.
Reading the lyrics of hymns is so telling, the congregation is called to hymn and pledges servitude and subordinance to God every Sunday. Unfortunately for the God crowd, I was gifted with a healthy dose of intelligence, and God did not stand up to questioning.
Further the bible itself does not stand to scrutiny, and with so much of its flaws being overlooked but oh no we can't overlook the scarce and indirect references to homosexuality or we'll burn in hell! Between that and a good portion of every church congregation in the world committing infidelity, I didn't understand the churches view of me - it did not stand up to scrutiny, and neither does much of the rest of the bible. And anyway if the bible was based in truth then the logical history of it meant that only the Judaic mother of the bible could be anywhere resembling the original truth - and the Torah seemed no less evil than the bible, so screw that!
As the Labour party moved ever more to the christrian right, I moved ever more to the liberal left. I put religion behind me and accepted myself for who I was - the single best thing that I ever did - and found that politically I am very much unrepresented.
When I read party manifesto's in the UK today the only one that doesn't even make me sick is the Green party - who I can't vote for as I have no local candidate.
So I dutifully go to every local election, and I spoil the ballot. I will continue to do so until I have a genuine choice on my ballot paper.
When alot of people say conservative here, do they mean social or economically or both?
I mean I have a conservative economic view point, but socially im very liberal.
I mean I have a conservative economic view point, but socially im very liberal.
K gooby
Or perhaps she'll get you thinking.
Regarding the welfare state in the UK my statement was when it became initiated in the early 1900, when people only lived a short lifespan for example, we never envisaged the future costs. We have run out of money a long time ago we are living, like most of the world on pretend money, based on peoples imaginary borrowing potential, leverage I think it's called.
I have a disabled son (Worstening Lennox Gastaut Syndrome) and we get good support generally from the NHS and use the welfare state, but my wife gets carers allowance. But why should my wife be getting carers allowance when her husband is fortunately earning sufficient and in reality that carers allowance money could be used elsewhere. Like to help mass immigrants who have paid nothing into our society, they are not stupid and know that the UK is a soft touch.
Lets face it UK is an easy touch for tricksters, thieves and just people that know how to work the system. For example mass immigrants that are free to come and use the services that we have been paying through the nose for. Don't get me wrong I know this country needs immigration and extra workers that pay tax. But why lets not check the credentials of the people coming over here.
What I want to know is why we are giving approximately 50m per day (if I recall correctly) to the European Union to support the requirements of an unelected federal government, yes kind of like the old USSR, and when you look at it probably illegal European Parliament. Jees look at Greece how happy are they now with the EU that they are not even allowed to make there own governance laws anymore.
Anyway that's my latest rant on my beliefs that the European Union is another layer of bureaucracy that we all bought into with false promises.
I have a disabled son (Worstening Lennox Gastaut Syndrome) and we get good support generally from the NHS and use the welfare state, but my wife gets carers allowance. But why should my wife be getting carers allowance when her husband is fortunately earning sufficient and in reality that carers allowance money could be used elsewhere. Like to help mass immigrants who have paid nothing into our society, they are not stupid and know that the UK is a soft touch.
Lets face it UK is an easy touch for tricksters, thieves and just people that know how to work the system. For example mass immigrants that are free to come and use the services that we have been paying through the nose for. Don't get me wrong I know this country needs immigration and extra workers that pay tax. But why lets not check the credentials of the people coming over here.
What I want to know is why we are giving approximately 50m per day (if I recall correctly) to the European Union to support the requirements of an unelected federal government, yes kind of like the old USSR, and when you look at it probably illegal European Parliament. Jees look at Greece how happy are they now with the EU that they are not even allowed to make there own governance laws anymore.
Anyway that's my latest rant on my beliefs that the European Union is another layer of bureaucracy that we all bought into with false promises.
Well that was quite a wandering ramble so I wont respond to every point, not that I necessarily oppose everything you say.
But there is something, which really pisses me off, that you're doing...
Immigration does not require an adjective every time it is used, this is Murdochian. Labelling in this way fuels dysphoria and you need to lose that habit.
As for Britain being a soft touch, to some small extent it was true. We were not ready for Eastern Europe and the former soviet mindset of playing the system, but that was years ago and we've moved on. The levels of benefit fraud now are tiny, and I mean tiny. No adjective required.
Benefit fraud versus GDP is not even a contest, in fact the benefit system as a whole isn't that big of a deal. You can't get that point over during a conservative government who like to blame things on Jews, I mean the unemployed, but that's the reality.
Also, you need to have this conversation with some immigrants. I think you'd be surprised at just how much these issues have reflected back on Polish culture, not everyone is playing the system.
And it's actually not that easy to migrate here.
But there is something, which really pisses me off, that you're doing...
Immigration does not require an adjective every time it is used, this is Murdochian. Labelling in this way fuels dysphoria and you need to lose that habit.
As for Britain being a soft touch, to some small extent it was true. We were not ready for Eastern Europe and the former soviet mindset of playing the system, but that was years ago and we've moved on. The levels of benefit fraud now are tiny, and I mean tiny. No adjective required.
Benefit fraud versus GDP is not even a contest, in fact the benefit system as a whole isn't that big of a deal. You can't get that point over during a conservative government who like to blame things on Jews, I mean the unemployed, but that's the reality.
Also, you need to have this conversation with some immigrants. I think you'd be surprised at just how much these issues have reflected back on Polish culture, not everyone is playing the system.
And it's actually not that easy to migrate here.
If "good, great, lovely immigrants" (just use the right adjectives) with no money and no skills can come to your country and draw benefits than it must not be too difficult. If a Sudanese man who can't read english can understand enough to get his second or third wife plus children from each on the taxpayer dole, than it really is that easy. If irresponsible behavior is tolerated by responsible people, then no one is doing anything to prevent fraud, and in fact I would say welfare fraud is one of the most rewarding forms of theft compared to the low risk of punishment or jail.
The welfare state will barely function for another two decades without widespread fraud. Do you think it is a coincidence that when jobs are scarce or the economy turns south suddenly there are millions upon millions more "disabled" people? There are more people drawing social security disability in the US than there are entire populations of European countries. I call BS.
I just got an idea for an awesome App: Your phone can access a database of people who receive taxpayer money in any form. Using the App you can report people who you find to be defrauding the system. If they are, then they have to pay back all of the money they have been given by the taxpayers, but the person who reported them with the App gets 5% (for example) of that money as a reward for hunting down waste. Recently a US doctor was found to have embezzled 35 MILLION dollars from medicare by providing false cancer diagnoses for bribes and performing chemotherapy on healthy people. 5% of that sounds like a nice payday to me!
The welfare state will barely function for another two decades without widespread fraud. Do you think it is a coincidence that when jobs are scarce or the economy turns south suddenly there are millions upon millions more "disabled" people? There are more people drawing social security disability in the US than there are entire populations of European countries. I call BS.
I just got an idea for an awesome App: Your phone can access a database of people who receive taxpayer money in any form. Using the App you can report people who you find to be defrauding the system. If they are, then they have to pay back all of the money they have been given by the taxpayers, but the person who reported them with the App gets 5% (for example) of that money as a reward for hunting down waste. Recently a US doctor was found to have embezzled 35 MILLION dollars from medicare by providing false cancer diagnoses for bribes and performing chemotherapy on healthy people. 5% of that sounds like a nice payday to me!
so your solution to social security is stasi informants?
No one is working to catch fraud in the system in a meaningful way. Hopefully that can change before people take the matter into their own hands. A tax revolt would be far more effective. If people got to keep their money instead of throwing it into the gov. cesspool, I think they would find more profitable investments than social security disability for people with "emotional problems" or housing for 'refugees'. The idea that people don't know what best to do with the resources they earn is anti-human.
Politics politcs politcs. THe subject of dunks and fools politcs.
I don't know how it works in y'alls part of the planet, but here it flat out sucks.
I mean State politics, not national level.
See here in Texas we're having a governor's election coming up in 2014.
DO you know what the fore front of the issues are going to be in these up coming elections?
Where the politician stands on abortion.
Abortion.
Now being opposed to the abortion industry, I'm not in favor of it. But that shouldn't matter. It's just NOT what should be a pivotal issue in this election.
There's zillions of other issues that should be way far important than abortion as far as the state goes.
Things like Marijuana reform. Seriously looking into legalizing casino gambling, Figuring out ways to LOWER hunting and fishing license fees. All sorts of things.
Hell even fixing state highways. But nope all that's up for debate is abortion.
And why? Because it's a safe bet. Running around claiming to be pro-choice or pro-life over and over keeps them from having to explain their positions on things they probably don't really have a clue about.
And what really gets scary is how all the supporters of whatever candidate seem to just nod along, thinking the clown they support somehow is better than the other one running for the spot.
Yeah politics.................
I don't know how it works in y'alls part of the planet, but here it flat out sucks.
I mean State politics, not national level.
See here in Texas we're having a governor's election coming up in 2014.
DO you know what the fore front of the issues are going to be in these up coming elections?
Where the politician stands on abortion.
Abortion.
Now being opposed to the abortion industry, I'm not in favor of it. But that shouldn't matter. It's just NOT what should be a pivotal issue in this election.
There's zillions of other issues that should be way far important than abortion as far as the state goes.
Things like Marijuana reform. Seriously looking into legalizing casino gambling, Figuring out ways to LOWER hunting and fishing license fees. All sorts of things.
Hell even fixing state highways. But nope all that's up for debate is abortion.
And why? Because it's a safe bet. Running around claiming to be pro-choice or pro-life over and over keeps them from having to explain their positions on things they probably don't really have a clue about.
And what really gets scary is how all the supporters of whatever candidate seem to just nod along, thinking the clown they support somehow is better than the other one running for the spot.
Yeah politics.................
Yeah, maybe they could spend it on electrified fences around their property to keep out the millions of homeless starving people you've just created.
What a lovely place to live that would be.
Clearly both illegal immigrants and abortion are really important issues to address.
In the UK, ( and everywhere ) here's a far bigger waste of money than your immigrants.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new ... benefit-doctors-warn.html
In the US, why isn't this ever discussed ?
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2 ... n-military-aid-to-israel/
As I've said earlier, the purpose of 'politics' is to stop the people actually addressing, or even knowing about facts.
Here's a great commentary that is well worth watching, the ever great George Carlin. Someone who asked you to think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_zwB6GLpo4#at=105
Politics?
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FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG