Quote from Racer X NZ :

how is nuclear power 'safe' ?

Here's a challenge for you: calculate how many premature deaths were directly or indirectly caused by all nuclear power plants in human history. I'm talking about everything, including, but not limited to, acute radiation poisoning from severe leaks, cancers above the 'normal' rate in areas exposed to radiation and other chronic illnesses. I know your history, so I'll even let you use the version of events presented in the questionably supported 'documentary' "The Battle of Chernobyl" as part of your total count. You should use all accidents and everything from the normal running of all nuclear power plants in history up until this point.

Then tell me how many premature deaths were caused by coal power plants in the world last year.

To be clear, I'm asking you to compare all of our history concerning nuclear power with just one year worth of coal power.

Ultimately no source of power generation is 100% safe.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

There is more death pouring into the air and sea daily than occurred at the time of the meltdown, there are no ideas how to contain it or even recovour the fuel. They don't even know where the fuel is. They talk about 40 years to clean it up, without any plan of how to do it.

Again, these problems (which you're obviously exaggerating for effect) are mainly due to the short-sighted disaster planning and criminal negligence of TEPCO.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

And there are a number of other plants around the world just waiting to do the same.

There's some truth in this statement, I'll grant you. The main reason is that the overwhelmingly vast majority of nuclear reactors which are currently in service or have been decommissioned in the past 20 years have been based on designs that are, at their core (pardon the pun), decades old and were not retro-fitted to include any of the significant improvements in design and monitoring which have been developed in the field. This is due to a combination of reasons, largely a mixture of cost, toothless regulators and operators who don't wish to spend money upgrading plants which really should have been decommissioned decades ago.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Quite an achievement of humanity, managing to achieve our own extinction for the sake of money.

Partially true (see upgrade comment above re: operators), but it's a better situation than shutting down all currently active nuclear power stations in the world and plunging large parts of the developed world into darkness. If you shut down all nuclear power stations just now many countries would not be able to make up the deficit within any kind of reasonable timeframe. Additionally, renewable technologies are nowhere near ready at this time to replace nuclear power in any significant amount.

Cool, an intelligent conversation.

Chernobyl, the scientific reviews suggest 400,000 cases of early deaths or other radiation caused effects on humans. This is impossible to actually prove, for obvious reasons but the official view is 31 dead, no other effects.
Believe that if you like.

Radiation, in its many form affects humans, that's why there is a limit on X-rays etc. you might have noticed that the 'safe' level of exposure has been raised since Fukushima, is that because radiation has suddenly become safer ?

What we do know is the half life of radiation, we do know that the effects of this will last for hundreds of thousands of years. How many generations is that ?

What will this cause, we won't know until we've lived though this. Is my view pessermistic ? Yes, because we don't know, what we do know is that 40 percent of children in Japan are showing thyroid anomalies. And radiation shows in the thyroid before it shows up in other parts of the human body.

Is radiation good for the human body, no.

So is a leaking nuclear plant, and beyond that a MOX plant, going to be beneficial, or in a best case scenario, not be harmful to mammal species, I really doubt it.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Cool, an intelligent conversation.

Chernobyl, the scientific reviews suggest 400,000 cases of early deaths or other radiation caused effects on humans. This is impossible to actually prove, for obvious reasons but the official view is 31 dead, no other effects.
Believe that if you like.

This isn't exactly a great answer to my question.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

you might have noticed that the 'safe' level of exposure has been raised since Fukushima, is that because radiation has suddenly become safer ?

Source? This BBC news article suggests that the recent leak incident will result in an increase in the severity of the situation.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

What we do know is the half life of radiation, we do know that the effects of this will last for hundreds of thousands of years. How many generations is that ?

That's what people said about Three Mile Island and Chernobyl and there has been little evidence of serious long-term problems outside the immediate area. In the aftermath of the Chernobyl incident there were various doomsday predictions that large areas across Europe would be unfit for humans and would produce highly radioactive crops/meat for generations. Those predictions have really failed to materialise.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

What will this cause, we won't know until we've lived though this. Is my view pessermistic ? Yes, because we don't know, what we do know is that 40 percent of children in Japan are showing thyroid anomalies. And radiation shows in the thyroid before it shows up in other parts of the human body.

We have lived through Chernobyl though, as I mention above, so we do have a degree of historical data to draw on. Of course, the incidents at Chernobyl and Fukushima were not identical, but I find it difficult to believe that a largely localised release of relatively low level radiation into groundwater and possibly the ocean (as in Fukushima) will be worse than a large plume of highly radioactive gases that were released during the Chernobyl incident. Do you have a source for the 40% thyroid problems in Japanese children?

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Is radiation good for the human body, no.

Well, targeted radiation can be good for the human body. Not only are radioactive sources used in various fields of medical imaging, but radiation therapy is commonly used to fight cancer in humans.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

So is a leaking nuclear plant, and beyond that a MOX plant, going to be beneficial, or in a best case scenario, not be harmful to mammal species, I really doubt it.

I never claimed Fukushima would be beneficial or even not harmful (I don't know if you're suggesting I said this or just wandering like you often do in your posts). I just think that using situations like Fukushima to justify scaling back nuclear power at a time when energy demand is increasing is a very dangerous strategy. Of course serious nuclear accidents pose a great danger to humans and we should do everything humanly possible to prevent them happening in the first place. Back to better long-term disaster planning, better regulators and better operators, eh?

Points taken, ill do some digging and provide the info you've asked for. Sat nite here and I've got other things to do.

A couple of quick points tho, point the first: there will always be disagreement between official and unofficial analysis of any event.

Point the second: there are still farms in Britain who's produce is banned from sale due to the effects of Chernobyl. That's not exactly in the immediate area is it.

And yes, coal, oil, electric energy all have adverse effects, however these effects have nothing like the long term effects of a nuclear oops.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

A couple of quick points tho, point the first: there will always be disagreement between official and unofficial analysis of any event.

Agreed (with possible caveats that don't need to be explored here).

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Point the second: there are still farms in Britain who's produce is banned from sale due to the effects of Chernobyl. That's not exactly in the immediate area is it.

Are there? I thought all bans were lifted now, but if there are any in place please provide a source as to the number. Unless there are a huge number in several different countries that were in the path of the Chernobyl 'cloud' I contend that my statement above (i.e. "In the aftermath of the Chernobyl incident there were various doomsday predictions that large areas across Europe would be unfit for humans and would produce highly radioactive crops/meat for generations. Those predictions have really failed to materialise.") is correct. We're only approximately a single generation after Chernobyl.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

And yes, coal, oil, electric energy all have adverse effects, however these effects have nothing like the long term effects of a nuclear oops.

The 'normal' adverse effects of coal/gas power stations likely cause the premature death of at least tens of thousands of people worldwide each year. Here is a recent Guardian article which quotes a Greenpeace-commissioned study by Stuttgart University's Institute for energy economics. More than 20,000 premature deaths in a single year by (just) Europe's 300 largest coal power stations.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

What will this cause, we won't know until we've lived though this. Is my view pessermistic ? Yes, because we don't know, what we do know is that 40 percent of children in Japan are showing thyroid anomalies. And radiation shows in the thyroid before it shows up in other parts of the human body.

This is not exactly true. Thyroid problems linked to radiation have a very specific cause - Iodine 131 isotope. This isotope has a half-life of about 8 days and it does not pose a significant danger unless it is ingested. I therefore find the statement that 40 % of Japanese children exhibit thyroid problems connected to the Fukushima accident very unlikely. For comparison, US conducted 331 atmospheric nuclear tests in 50s and 60s and CDC accounts for ~11 000 deaths caused by radiogenic thyroid cancer.

Quick response regarding thyroid issues in children. There is a veil of silence being drawn by Japan regarding the affects of Fukushima. Here's a great example. According to the Japanese Govt, only unhappy people will suffer from radiation, if your happy then you cant be affected.

Here is the govts message to the people.
The good doctor's good words were all over Fukushima Prefecture as fresh radioactive fallout from Fukushima descended on the cities and towns in Fukushima on March 20 and 21, 2011.

"No effect on health below 100 millisieverts radiation exposure."
"If you laugh, radiation won't get you."
"Children can play outdoors."
"You're the proud descendants of Byakko-tai (suicide squad made of young men and boys in the battle in the beginning of the Meiji era), aren't you?"

And one year later he says,

One year after, Dr. Yamashita defends himself in the Asahi interview (local Nagasaki version, 3/12/2012) by blaming the radiation phobia of the general public, and urge all Japanese to "share the pain and burden". To be expected from a reporter in a Japanese paper, there is no critical question to the doctor.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.co.nz/s ... abel/Shunichi%20Yamashita

And not only iodine 131 but also cesium 37 will affect the thyroid.
http://www.strahlentelex.de/Yablokov%20Chernobyl%20book.pdf

Here is a 2001 study in Japan showing standard levels, well under 1%.
https://docs.google.com/file/d ... TVkOVdrNzlRWUk/edit?pli=1

Now here's the latest,
The Tenth Report of Fukushima Prefecture Health Management Survey was released on February 13, 2013. [...]

The results compiled up to January 21, 2013 revealed that 41,947 (44.2%) of 94,975 children had thyroid ultrasound abnormalities. Together with 38,114 children (13,645 or 35.8% had thyroid ultrasound abnormalities) tested in the last half of Fiscal Year Heisei 23 (FYH23) from October 2011 through March 2012, a total of 55,592 (41.8%) of 133,089 Fukushima children have been found to have ultrasound abnormalities.
http://fukushimavoice-eng.blog ... d-examination-part-4.html

It's also vital to remember that while Chernobyl was one reactor that blew, Fukushima is 4 reactors, including at least 1 MOX reactor, that have been burning for over 2 1/2 years with no end in sight, that are also built on a river and are in addition to pouring radiation into the air, are also pouring radiation into the Pacific.

Here's a frightening New York Times article dated 23 August 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08 ... -on-crisis.html?_r=2&

And here's the BBC even stating Fukushima is far worse than reported. This one is 22 August 2013.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23779561
Dr Ken Buesseler is a senior scientist at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution who has examined the waters around Fukushima.
"It is not over yet by a long shot, Chernobyl was in many ways a one week fire-explosive event, nothing with the potential of this right on the ocean."

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Quick response regarding thyroid issues in children. There is a veil of silence being drawn by Japan regarding the affects of Fukushima. Here's a great example. According to the Japanese Govt, only unhappy people will suffer from radiation, if your happy then you cant be affected.

Here is the govts message to the people.
The good doctor's good words were all over Fukushima Prefecture as fresh radioactive fallout from Fukushima descended on the cities and towns in Fukushima on March 20 and 21, 2011.

"No effect on health below 100 millisieverts radiation exposure."
"If you laugh, radiation won't get you."
"Children can play outdoors."
"You're the proud descendants of Byakko-tai (suicide squad made of young men and boys in the battle in the beginning of the Meiji era), aren't you?"

And one year later he says,

One year after, Dr. Yamashita defends himself in the Asahi interview (local Nagasaki version, 3/12/2012) by blaming the radiation phobia of the general public, and urge all Japanese to "share the pain and burden". To be expected from a reporter in a Japanese paper, there is no critical question to the doctor.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.co.nz/s ... abel/Shunichi%20Yamashita

And not only iodine 131 but also cesium 37 will affect the thyroid.
http://www.strahlentelex.de/Yablokov%20Chernobyl%20book.pdf

Here is a 2001 study in Japan showing standard levels, well under 1%.
https://docs.google.com/file/d ... TVkOVdrNzlRWUk/edit?pli=1

Now here's the latest,
The Tenth Report of Fukushima Prefecture Health Management Survey was released on February 13, 2013. [...]

The results compiled up to January 21, 2013 revealed that 41,947 (44.2%) of 94,975 children had thyroid ultrasound abnormalities. Together with 38,114 children (13,645 or 35.8% had thyroid ultrasound abnormalities) tested in the last half of Fiscal Year Heisei 23 (FYH23) from October 2011 through March 2012, a total of 55,592 (41.8%) of 133,089 Fukushima children have been found to have ultrasound abnormalities.
http://fukushimavoice-eng.blog ... d-examination-part-4.html

It's also vital to remember that while Chernobyl was one reactor that blew, Fukushima is 4 reactors, including at least 1 MOX reactor, that have been burning for over 2 1/2 years with no end in sight, that are also built on a river and are in addition to pouring radiation into the air, are also pouring radiation into the Pacific.

Here's a frightening New York Times article dated 23 August 2013
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08 ... -on-crisis.html?_r=2&

And here's the BBC even stating Fukushima is far worse than reported. This one is 22 August 2013.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23779561
Dr Ken Buesseler is a senior scientist at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution who has examined the waters around Fukushima.
"It is not over yet by a long shot, Chernobyl was in many ways a one week fire-explosive event, nothing with the potential of this right on the ocean."

Years ago, I worked in an industry known as Environmental Remdiation.
Cool name, huh? I was a Lab Pack Chemical Technician..... Neat title too!

Environmental Remdiation. = Toxic Waste Disposal
Lab Pack Chemical Technician = garbage man

The pay totally sucked and benefits were non-existent

Anyhows... I got hit with a full rad of radiation for a limited time. It killed off most of my white blood cells and for years, I got sick at the drop of a hat.
LOL I went to a clinic about it a bout a year after I quit working there. It was a "free clinic". And it was a strong argument AGAINST socialized medicine. Like most government crap, I had to fill out a ton of paperwork. Only one page of it was actually about the reason for the visit. The idiots DIDN'T read what I wrote about being nuked. But they did do blood work. They called me in the office with all these doctors with dumb looks on their faces. Apparently, they caught the lack of white blood cells from it, and used it for two AIDS tests. They tell me this. They tell me that they're pretty sure I don't have AIDS because there were no AZT anti-bodies in the blood. While they're beating around the bush about describing all this to me, I notice the paper work I filled out earlier.
Right there, as big as Dallas, was my statement about radiation exposure.
SO I grab it and ask these quacks if they even bothered to read what I wrote.
Sheepishly, they admitted they didn't read it. After they did. They told me all I need to do was go home and get some rest and I'll get better if I drink milk.
oh I got better alright. It only took about 16 years.

But the response I got from those doctors after the figured out I was exposed to radiation, was about the same as this clown that thinks smiles kills curies.

Quote from Racer Y :

And since our little rebel without a clue Snowden let the cat out of the bag, those guys in the private sector now know where to start.

Snowdon did not reveal anything that geeks did not already know. I've known about the boxes in the ISP's that do this since my first job in I.T. over 20 years ago.

All Snowdon did was add publicity. The government hate him because for the last 2 decades the government believe it's own propaganda and had been operating under the assumption that it was all top secret. Despite there being obvious public legal cases where this technology was used, such as the several cases of people tweeting Anglicised English about "gonna blow up LA" and then get arrested at American airports by officials not understanding the cultural discrepancies in our languages.

This has been going on for years, and nothing Snowdon said was new news.

Given that I work in marketing and I do the job that you seem to despise with regards to using tracked data to sell you more goods, I have to say that Snowdon has not opened any flood gates. Besides, the metrics the NSA monitor are of no consequence to my marketing endeavours.

-*-

With regards to Fukushima, I was startled the other day as I drove home to hear about the water tanks leaking on the radio as if it was a breaking news story. I was startled because much like Prism this wasn't news to me either.

So either I am the most informed person in the world, which I am sure that I'm not as I barely pay attention to news, or the world is becoming better at double-speaking.

Fukushima is a very serious incident and that entirely down to the cleanup operation being run on a for profit basis. There is no way that share holders should have a vested interest in the clean up of a nuclear radiation spill.

I do not believe that anyone reading this is stupid enough to believe that it was okay to put the radioactive water into storage tanks designed to last 1 year, and I believe that almost everyone reading this knew that the tanks where not of an adequate construction some time ago.

I also believe, that the fact we all know this and then so many people acted surprised when it turned out that so much radiation was leaking was the biggest victory for corporate governance that the capitalist world has ever pulled off.

I believe in free and open markets, but I do not zionise the ideology. To believe that the world is better off being run by PR spin ( eg: me and my ilk ) for the interests of share holders is the single stupidist ideology the world has ever seen - but it is how the world is run, and I still can't believe that so few people have worked this out and aren't in uproar.

Stop double speaking yourselves. Demand socialisation of vested corporate interests when those corporates operate in the public interest - because the public interest is the last thing they all care about.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Snowdon did not reveal anything that geeks did not already know. I've known about the boxes in the ISP's that do this since my first job in I.T. over 20 years ago.

All Snowdon did was add publicity. The government hate him because for the last 2 decades the government believe it's own propaganda and had been operating under the assumption that it was all top secret. Despite there being obvious public legal cases where this technology was used, such as the several cases of people tweeting Anglicised English about "gonna blow up LA" and then get arrested at American airports by officials not understanding the cultural discrepancies in our languages.

This has been going on for years, and nothing Snowdon said was new news.

Given that I work in marketing and I do the job that you seem to despise with regards to using tracked data to sell you more goods, I have to say that Snowdon has not opened any flood gates. Besides, the metrics the NSA monitor are of no consequence to my marketing endeavours.

-*-

With regards to Fukushima,blah blah blah nuclear radiation spill.

blah blah blah radiation was leaking blah blah blah

Stop double speaking yourselves. Demand socialisation of vested corporate interests when those corporates operate in the public interest - because the public interest is the last thing they all care about.

I'm sorry but while you might have half a clue to what your'er talking about, I don't think you truly see this informations' potential compared with what the evil that men do. (good movie)

You think these clowns are going to exploit these files so they can sell us socks?
Ever hear of SWATTING? planting kiddie porn? selling out confidential informants? There's all sorts of nasty things they'll do with this information once they get their grubby little hands on it.

>>>> Socializing corporations...... Really?
What incentive would I have to succeed if when I did the government grabbed all my "success" and redistributed it amongst the dead beats?
How far would the company succeed if one of my rivals were to make up for their lack of superiority with a collection of government agencies and a nice media spin smear campaign against me that hooks the sheep into believing it?
Plus, whether you like it or not, it's all about the money. You think the corporate board and heads would be eliminated from Monsanto through socialization? LOL not only would something like that give them MORE power, but since they've been absorbed by the government they'll enjoy all the protections from it that they can exploit. Meaning startups with better ideas would be locked out of the markets. Our markets.
In fact, if something like that were to happen, wouldn't I be more inclined to hide my "success" in the black market?
I'm sorry, but big government is the problem. NOT the solution. A small government wouldn't have created Snowden and the NSA scandal in the first place. And I think that the more socially progressive governments (cough Euroland cough) have more skeletons hiding in their closets due to the increased opaqueness that accompanies them. Not just spying on people's Emails either. WE already know the UK and other countries trample on individual freedoms, especially concerning emails.

You know... thinking about it through responding to your post,
I wonder what that child molester Assange and wikileaks true motives are?
All we hear about is things from the U S of A.
What about the little screw-ups from other countries? We NEVER hear of those. Just the USA. What's up with that?
If all the pervert is doing is going after the US, then that makes him an enemy combatant instead of a champion of freedom and transparency like he tries to delude people into thinking he is.
Yeah, maybe this little sex offender needs a visit from a SEAL team.

Quote from Racer Y :

What incentive would I have to succeed if when I did the government grabbed all my "success" and redistributed it amongst the dead beats?

Cleaning up the nuclear spill should never have been undertaken by Tepco. It should have been done by the government, and at least in part funded by fines against Tepco for allowing it to happen in the first place.

I'm somewhat surprised that you are aware of the concept of smear campaigns, and yet hold the view that you do about Assange. The Swedish rape case doesn't even need court evidence to highlight how ridiculous it is - the facts stand up for themselves. Days after the government want to stop him from operating two femals Swedish spy's claim he raped them decades earlier. It's the perfect smear, because everyone hates a sex offender and culturally we tend to judge them without evidence.

I'm usually the first on the feminist band wagon where rape cases are concerned - but two testimonies from government agents as the only evidence with such convenient timing for Western governments? It's really quite ridiculous.

I'm not aware of any kiddy fiddler allegations against him?

Quote from Racer Y :

What about the little screw-ups from other countries? We NEVER hear of those. Just the USA. What's up with that?
If all the pervert is doing is going after the US, then that makes him an enemy combatant instead of a champion of freedom and transparency like he tries to delude people into thinking he is.

They're currently releasing 2 million emails from Syrian government officials and their lead article relates to a Swedish case and Pirate Bay.

Me thinks you have paranoia and/or irrational nationalist fervour.

Quote from Becky Rose :

They're currently releasing 2 million emails from Syrian government officials and their lead article relates to a Swedish case and Pirate Bay.

Me thinks you have paranoia and/or irrational nationalist fervour.

Paranoia? Yes. Perfect Paranoia is perfect awareness.
nationalist? LOLOLOLOL
I'm considered the bad guy in the war on drugs my country helped to create and makes yours and others blindly follow. So nah. Not that.

I just think Assange the "questionable molester" is a typical over edjumicated punk with a hard on for the U.S. and found a means he could use to act on that bad feeling.
You sure the Syrian emails aren't just fluff to distract from the true agenda?
I dunno. I could just be being paranoid.

Off topic, but hey, its my thread so WTF.

Syria, Yet another (reducted), sorry, US war against an independent banking system.
( Check who doesn't run a (reducted) controlled banking system, Iraq (invaded), Lybia (invanded), Syria (Watch this channel), Iran (who's next ?), Russia (keep watching), China (Next boogieman))

Chemical weapons is a cause to attack without any review as to who actually did the attack ?

What did the US use against Iraqi's in Faluga ( or other parts of Iraq) ?

What did the US use against its own population at Waco ?

Now, for you US fanatics, who allegedly carried out 911 ?, I think the official story is Al Queda. You remember, they were the reason for the "War on Terrortm" The official reason you invaded Afghanistan, etc, etc, whatever.

Well, despite them ( Al Queda ) being trained by the US in the use of chemical weapons, despite them being caught by Turkey ( Your NATO ally, remember ) with chemical weapons, despite the UN only being told to find out ... rather than who used them, despite (reducted) saying the US was going to attack Syria, giving you your instructions.
So, based on even less facts than any of your previous wars, your keen to start yet another.

And all the usual puppets go along with it saying the same old crock of lies.

Lets start a nuclear holocaust just because (reducted) tells you to. And you wonder why much of the rest of the world think Americans are stupid ?

Here's an idea, STOP supporting terrorists, try producing actual evidence to support your statements, stop being two faced lying scum when it comes to your actions.
FYI, your current glorious leader will give your previous glorious leader ( and his BFF's ) complete immunity from any war crimes accusations. And why would that be neccessary if he hadn't committed war crimes ?
Oh, right, you never supported the international war crimes tribuneral when it came to American war crimes did you ?

Mind you, we did think it was funny when (reducted) told you it was Egypt attacking the USS Liberty, and how close were we then to another war ?, and for who ?, and who was it who actually attacked your ship, or don't we talk about that ?

Mind you, we did think it was funny when (reducted) told you it was Egypt attacking the USS Liberty, and how close were we then to another war ?, and for who ?, and who was it who actually attacked your ship, or don't we talk about that ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Liberty.... Really? Uh it's been talked about to death. If you wanna rag on Israel, then bring up that they had intelligence that hezbolla was going to car bomb the Marines in Lebanon in 1983 and didn't tell us.
But if you wanna look into a REAL conspiracy, What exactly is your government's relationship with bath salt makers? You're going to have to look pretty deep cousin, but it's there.

Dude,

We were your no1 dealer during Vietnam, now your getting your chemical weapons off others.

And there's so many interesting facts about (reducted) that get swept under the carpet.

Interesting to see that your glorious leader is far less keen on hearing from the UN about the facts now that your allies, sorry, Al Queda actually used them rather than Syria.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPtGJbrvpjQ
But I'm sure that yet again the lies are far more important than any actual facts.

Sorry to be rude to Americans, but George Carlins quote is completely applicable, WTF are you guys actually thinking ?

Do you think ?, much of the online chatter from Americans clearly shows that you see the lies, but why does you govt, whatever flavour, seem to want to always start new wars ?.

Your country is screwed due to your banking system, but you keep on wanting to destroy any other system. See Georges quote above, I'm willing to exclude the current audience, but really, you vote these people into power. Again, if you vote them in, then your responsible for their actions.

What about the New Zealand Government and bath salts?

Quote from Racer Y :

What about the New Zealand Government and bath salts?

Quite probably given their behaviour.

Regarding Syria, this is currently breaking news; "However, from numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families, a different picture emerges. Many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the dealing gas attack."
http://www.mintpressnews.com/w ... -chemical-weapons/168135/

If you read the article you'll see it was actually an accident.

And knowledge of this would account for no other country joining the US's Jihad.

Lets see how long it takes for this to make mainstream media, if it's true then it accounts for the US not wanting any evidence of the actual facts.
"U.S. intelligence officials also told the Associated Press that the intelligence proving Assad’s culpability is “no slam dunk,” a far cry from the Obama administration’s rhetoric, which held that Assad’s responsibility was “undeniable.”"
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org ... k-on-syria-to-begin-satur

And this is an interesting story from the Jerusalem Post, http://www.jpost.com/National- ... t-IDF-intervention-324787

And while we're talking about the US stance that using chemical weapons is a war crime ?

Well, what about this, and this, and this, and this.

Then there's this, and also this, and this.

And of course, getting back to Syria, the UN has stated, "According to UN diplomat Carla del Ponte, however, it appears that the recent chemical weapons attack, in April, was carried out by the Syrian rebels and not the regime, as it had been widely assumed. Speaking to a Swiss television channel, del Ponte said that there were “strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof,” that rebels had carried out the attack. She also said UN investigators had seen no evidence of the Syrian army using chemical weapons, but that further investigation was needed."
http://guardianlv.com/2013/08/ ... ed-out-by-rebels-says-un/

Lets all hope that Americans develop the same intelligence shown by the British Govt. And as an interesting point, the last time the British govt voted like that was in 1783 when they granted America it's independence by voting to stop the War of Independence.

Well, with all the spying that the USA does on the rest of us you'd think that they'd be better informed than they are.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08 ... ld/meast/syria-civil-war/

Apparently no one has told the US Glorious leader that the UN has already found that Al Quida ( US Mercenary forces ) carried out the earlier attacks, see my above post. Or the information posted in my above, above post.

Perhaps the NSA could try reading posts on the net as clearly they seem to be a bit behind the evidence that's being produced on the situation.

Or perhaps there's actually a secret agenda, but that would be a 'conspiracy theory'...............

Do you know what half of America Thinks about Syria?
We think Why replace one regime that hates us with another one?
Let these idiots kill each other off.
Besides, They don't have oil. They don't have gold. They have a little natural gas, but not enough to be worth getting involved in a civil war.
Right now. Obama, backed off his earlier plan and put the ball in the republican's court. Since you know so much about American politics, you should know what that means.
By the way, that linked article was as unbiased and objective as FOX news.
"Some information in this article could not be independently verified. Mint Press News will continue to provide further information and updates . "
I imagine that SOME information not verified was the second through eighth paragraphs and then some.
Anyhow, I predict Obama Will shoot off a couple a feel good missiles at a couple of so-so targets and call it a day. I doubt the strike and yeah I figure in a couple a days our boats will fire a couple of missiles, will do anything more than a misguided firework.
The United States stands nothing to gain from a regime change in Syria, given the choices. So by firing the missiles, we'll show the rebels that we're on their side - if they win. If Assad somehow pulls through, then the missile strike would be considered small and easier to work around diplomatically than say an assassination attempt.
++++++++++++++++++
You know what the other half of America thinks about Syria?
That it's a nice name for one of Beyonce's kids.

From the AP
...Obama said the U.S. should take action against Syria to punish it for what the U.S. believes was a deadly chemical attack launched by Syrian President Bashar Assad this month that killed more than 1,400 people. But Obama said he wants Congress to debate and vote on whether to use force, and has said any possible strike would be limited.....

See...

As I said, if the US feels that the use of chemical weapons is such an issue then;
1, Why does the US use them ?
2, Why does the US support their use by its allies ?
3, Why does the US provide them to both Al Queda and its puppet states ?

The news report was from an AP reporter with 20 years experience reporting in the region, AP is not Fox News, however I fully understand that such a report may not be well received by your administration. It's interesting that it was only after this was reported that suddenly your Glorious Leader chose to go to congress for approval.

And also remember that the UN has also said that it was most likely your Al Queda allies that carried out the previous chemical attacks, that won't be in your media either.

It's also interesting that the Saudi gentleman concerned also chose to threaten Russia with chemical attacks if they didn't withdraw their support for Syria, so annoying the Russians that they leaked transcripts of the meeting between him and Putin.
I don't expect that this will have made your media either but it's not hard to find on the net. Interestingly enough the Saudi gentleman claimed to have ties to various terror organisations, you should have a look for it, it makes interesting reading.

And Lets see if your congress reflects the 9 percent approval that the US people are showing in support for a war with Syria, Or if they choose to support their funding !

Mind you, as you already have Special Forces involved, as well as your full support for Al Queda in the war it will be interesting to see the outcome.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

As I said, if the US feels that the use of chemical weapons is such an issue then;
1, Why does the US use them ?
2, Why does the US support their use by its allies ?
3, Why does the US provide them to both Al Queda and its puppet states ?

The news report was from an AP reporter with 20 years experience reporting in the region, AP is not Fox News, however I fully understand that such a report may not be well received by your administration. It's interesting that it was only after this was reported that suddenly your Glorious Leader chose to go to congress for approval.

And also remember that the UN has also said that it was most likely your Al Queda allies that carried out the previous chemical attacks, that won't be in your media either.



It's also interesting that the Saudi gentleman concerned also chose to threaten Russia with chemical attacks if they didn't withdraw their support for Syria, so annoying the Russians that they leaked transcripts of the meeting between him and Putin.
I don't expect that this will have made your media either but it's not hard to find on the net. Interestingly enough the Saudi gentleman claimed to have ties to various terror organisations, you should have a look for it, it makes interesting reading.

And Lets see if your congress reflects the 9 percent approval that the US people are showing in support for a war with Syria, Or if they choose to support their funding !

Mind you, as you already have Special Forces involved, as well as your full support for Al Queda in the war it will be interesting to see the outcome.

First off, let's be honest. Of course we have chemical weapons, So do the Russians, the Chinese, You guys, all sorts of people.
Hell Here in America we have individuals that have Stockpiles that rival some countries.
Our support of Al Queda...
Really?
Wow. Maybe you really ought to look into the New Zealand/Bath Salt connection... and get your drinking water checked.

Speaking of Russia. Particularly Mr. Putin. Is it me? or is he like the Sean Connery of World Leaders? I don't really care for much of his politics, but he looks like a guy that doesn't put up with crap. Someone That would kick ass and take names. Could you imagine how much of a Bad ass we'd be if Putin was elected as President of the United States?
You know. It's too bad politics isn't more like professional sports. Like we could trade Hillary Clinton and John Boehner for Putin, Al Gore and Tony Blair would be Free Agents. Probably getting picked up by France.
Sarkozy Traded to Zimbabwe and Mugabe heading off to lead Greece.
What's that kid's name in N.Korea? He's an up and comer. Somebody to look out for in the near future.
>>>>>>>>>
Was watching Australian Football (live) Melbourne lost. It ain't the NFL, but it's still pretty cool.

War is the ultimate sporting event.....

And clearly your military are better advised about whats happening than most US citizens.





http://libertycrier.com/milita ... yrian-war-anonymous-meme/

And here's the article from the Guardian, makes very interesting reading.
http://www.theguardian.com.au/ ... l-if-it-drops-syria/?cs=9
As-Safir said Prince Bandar pledged to safeguard Russia’s naval base in Syria if the Assad regime is toppled, but he also hinted at Chechen terrorist attacks on Russia’s Winter Olympics in Sochi if there is no accord.

‘‘I can give you a guarantee to protect the Winter Olympics next year. The Chechen groups that threaten the security of the Games are controlled by us,’’ he allegedly said.

Prince Bandar went on to say that Chechens operating in Syria were a pressure tool that could be switched on and off.

‘‘We use them in the face of the Syrian regime but they will have no role in Syria’s political future.’’

And then there was this,
Turkish security forces found a 2kg cylinder with sarin gas after searching the homes of Syrian militants from the Al-Qaeda linked Al-Nusra Front who were previously detained, Turkish media reports. The gas was reportedly going to be used in a bomb.
http://patdollard.com/2013/09/ ... -linked-syrian-islamists/

And then back to America,
In a forceful speech on Friday, Kerry called Syrian President Bashar Assad a "thug and a murderer" who turned chemical weapons on innocent people in east Damascus.
"This is the indiscriminate, inconceivable horror of chemical weapons," he said. "This is what Assad did to his own people."
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com ... d-positive-for-sarin?lite

And you think Fox is false ?, well here's CNN creating false stories for you as well.
http://therebel.org/index.php? ... emid=1222&acm=733_675