Thanks for this pertinent status update Scawen Concerning InSim, are the autocross improvements (no level check) and new objects (flat slab) still in the pipeline? A while ago Victor briefly mentioned the possibility of graphical improvements, is this still being considered or a no go for now?

I think more frequent reports (even bad news) would be a good thing to cut short a big stack of speculation.

I'm very happy with the latest Dcon dedi btw

Quote from Scawen :

I don't know how that works. Is it a system that uses shutter glasses with a standard monitor? Does it have the option to accept side-by-side (SBS) output from a game and convert that to full screen 3d?

Quote from jasonmatthews :

Thanks for the update. Nvidia 3dvision sorts everything out, I guess it would be a pretty small coding change to get it working perfectly. I use shutter glasses on my 3d projector. The nvidia drivers convert it to SBS on the fly IIRC.

Pretty much what Jason said. You need to have 120hz monitor/projector (and 3D Vision kit - Shutter Glasses + USB dongle thing) and then the driver figures it out and creates a 3D image that works with the shutter glasses (60hz each lens). Mostly games that have some kind of post process effect or HUD elements etc need fixing by the developer, so I guess LFS probably doesn't really need anything done to it at the moment to improve Nvidia 3D vision compatibility.

I realize now that the 3D support you are adding is to actually add 3d output options to TVs from within LFS. Nvidia 3d vision doesnt really benefit from or need this, as far as I know. So there probably will be no difference. But like I say, it works pretty good anyway . I haven't tried 3D in ages, so I will have another go and see if there is anything that could do with tweaking

Quote from Scawen :

I just got a bit excited about stereoscopic 3d support, which some people will like because they'll be able to see LFS in 3d on a 3d TV, if their TV supports "side-by-side" or "top and bottom" mode. Also headsets should be supported if they accept one of those output modes. The old headsets that require specific support and sequential output will not be supported. For example a Sony HMZ works but a Vuzix VR920 does not. A more recent Vuzix should work but the field of view is not really good enough to give you peripheral vision. I'm not sure how much it will benefit the Oculus Rift at the moment. I think that depends on a pixel shader to provide the proper distortion, which I think is not available in D3D8. Anyway, one of the output options will be non-squashed (full) side-by-side 3D, which may possibly make it easier to use the Oculus Rift. Anyway it is a step in that direction. It does appear that the current Oculus Rift's resolution is too low for a racing simulator at the moment. Anyway I should be able to post a 3d test patch in a few days, I'm guessing early next week. Some people will enjoy that, though I realise most people, like me, don't have 3d equipment.

What about compatibility with the nvidia 3d technology offered through the graphics cards? Right now there's a driver but it's rubbish. Is this being considered? Edit: I failed to read the past 2 pages

Quote from Scawen :

LFS income has gradually gone down as it always does between updates. That that has increased the urgency of finishing the tyre physics. So I plan to get down to it, make the appropriate approximations and sort out a good physically based system, with enough assumptions to make it workable, accepting that total realism is an unachievable goal.

Yes, that is quite obvious, but I could be wrong in saying that this is ultimately a fictional game, so we don't know what the cars actually handle like in real life to compare. That being said, release some new content and take my ****ing money

Quote from Scawen :

Anyway, we do have to pay the bills and I'm very interested to get the better feeling tyre model out there for everyone to enjoy. You've heard it all before so I don't expect great enthusiasm. It will take a while yet, but hopefully not too long.

I personally think the tyre model in LFS was already exceptionally good and unique. I hope it doesn't take away from the current feel.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Again, who has time for this?

Don't know, let's find out. The most creative people already left the building lloonnggg ago. Maybe they are willing to come back if there are actually fresh and healthy opportunities.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

I don't know why you continue to be around LFS when you're so negative.

Negative? Wait what? It's just reality, nothing to do with positive/negative talking. I don't understand why people after so many years can rave about announcements while a child can see that what is really needed to get LFS back 'on track' never can be accomplished by one person.

Even if new tire physics finally gets an official release people will not flow back into this simulator. People want to race with each other, on real life tracks would be even better. Look at the success of Iracing, physics are subpar but car, track, image quality and everything else is that much better that people are willing to empty their pockets -completely-.

Besides, you are the one which is so negative about open source, don't try to push the discussion in a different direction, it's kinda weak.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Negative? Wait what? It's just reality, nothing to do with positive/negative talking. I don't understand why people after so many years can rave about announcements while a child can see that what is really needed to get LFS back 'on track' never can be accomplished by one person.

Even if new tire physics finally gets an official release people will not flow back into this simulator. People want to race with each other, on real life tracks would be even better. Look at the success of Iracing, physics are subpar but car, track, image quality and everything else is that much better that people are willing to empty their pockets -completely-.

Besides, you are the one which is so negative about open source, don't try to push the discussion in a different direction, it's kinda weak.

You're right I am negative about open source. Mostly because the vast majority of open source projects out there are either dead, near dead, or so terrible that they shouldn't be used by anybody.

The "good" projects that come out of open source is the exception, not the rule. LFS would end up like the other plethora of dead, terrible open source projects. There's clearly a dedicated community of people that like LFS and want it to succeed. Unfortunately that group of people doesn't possess the required skills to actually keep LFS as an alive project.

Quote from Scawen :

Hello everyone!

...Anyway I should be able to post a 3d test patch in a few days, I'm guessing early next week.

Excellent status update! I can't wait to try it with my TV.

Quote from Scawen :

Hello everyone!

:bannana_g:guitarist:rock_band:headbang::headbang::guitarist:guitarist:drink:

@scawen: thank you very much for that update on the state of lfs!
this is exactly what we were hoping for - some news, something to talk about, something to reflect!


about lfs and community (mod) support: lfs does not have to become "open source" in any way to support mods - there just have to be either shared tools like an editor for cars and tracks (like the one eric got?) or an api that accepts some sort of 3d models and ties them to the lfs kernel and physics.
i do not know how the lfs physics and the visual part of the game are connected and if the new physics are tied to the specific car models or if they are a framework to which new 3d models easly could be linked, but opening the way for content development by the community would surely give lfs one big rush.
to get around quality problems there can be more than one way. one is to allow any mod on a private server so anyone is free to play whatever he wants, but severely restrict the number of mods that make it into the public gaming so noone has to bother with additional downloads.
we have been happy with a small amount of tracks and cars for years so we do not need thousands of mods, only some, but really good ones. there are many talented guys out there - one prime example would be the "power and glory" mod for gtr2.
to further narrow the list of mod entries we could make the evaluation process part of this forum where everyone can show their efforts and we as a community decide which ones are good should make it into the game.
to see if this makes sense and would work we just need the ok from the devs that mods eventually can become real and then make a contest here.
say we make this a contest till xmas and then see how many will enter a track or a car - this will show the talent and how much of it is out there!
and if we were all nice, maybe santa will allow the winners of this competition into the real game?

peace, mo

yay, the wait is almost over..... keep up guys.....

Quote from jopapuba :

yay, the wait is almost over..... keep up guys.....

he didn't say that

Thanks for the update Scawen!
And thanks to Fordman for starting this thread, too!

It's amazing how much this is not "just a game" or "just a sim" for us

Tnx, Scawen!

Thanks Scawen!
And Thanks to Eric that he isnt demotivated at all because of all the negative guessing about him

I am going to buy Oculus Rift when its released ! So from my point of view its more important to get the 3D Support instead of the Tirephysic

IT IS NOT MOANING ABOUT YOUR DEVELOPMENT SCAWEN!

Just my thoughts.

Quote from Be2K :

I am going to buy Oculus Rift when its released ! So from my point of view its more important to get the 3D Support instead of the Tirephysic

IT IS NOT MOANING ABOUT YOUR DEVELOPMENT SCAWEN!

Just my thoughts.

same for me

FYI, Rift is under development and as of the present, doesn't have the resolution to make it essential, New tracks ( cough Bathhurst replicant, cough ) are more important.

Better, and not perfect, as that's impossible, physics are important.

Rift, as it gets more mature, awesome.

Lets just accept that, as all business models need an income stream, LFS will now be updated.
The community will support, test, and help build the best available sim and we'll all get something out of it.

Keep it on work !!! Respect !!!

Quote from Racer X NZ :

FYI, Rift is under development and as of the present, doesn't have the resolution

The latest development version is the 'HD' Rift, with a much more useful resolution (probably 1080p).

Quote from Degats :

The latest development version is the 'HD' Rift, with a much more useful resolution (probably 1080p).

What I read is :

- Some prototypes of a 1080p have been demonstrated at a show, but they are not available.

- The dev kit is still the old low-res one and there are no confirmed plans to release a HD dev kit.

The developers don't seem to want to confirm or deny whether there will be an HD dev kit. Probably means they don't know.
https://developer.oculusvr.com ... topic.php?f=26&t=3726

I'm skeptical that going up to 1080p would provide enough of a difference. Despite being twice as many pixels, it's only 280 more lines. 2560x1600 may be the way.

Even still, getting proper LFS support for the current Rift would be nice, even if the resolution isn't great yet.

When testing the rift at work (with Minecraft) I was really hoping LFS would support it soon because it enhanced Minecraft's gameplay immensely. I'm sure it would enhance LFS gameplay an awful lot too.

Thanks for the brief updates.

To those talking about open sourcing LFS:


The LFS client code base was built mostly by one guy, which means the effort of documentation alone would make the project stall for a long time at the very beginning if it does get open sourced. If we can get all the human resources needed to do this, starting from scratch with all the post-2010 hardware and theory might be better than working on an 10+ years old code base.


An open source project on real time vehicle dynamics simulation might get strong, actually I do believe this would happen. But that would make a good RESEARCH project, not a GAME, a project where developers get funded by taxpayers and industries to solve problems, and don't give a damn about who's not entertained.

The challenge here is not really the physics theory itself, but turning the theory into the product. Our devs are not the only humans on this planet who understand vehicle dynamics, and there are plenty of people who are way better at this. LFS devs stand out in their ability to turn the theory into a well packaged game product, ready for consumer use. What kind of business model can make this happen under a FLOSS framework remains to be seen.

Of course, I still want a Rift...

As for open source, how well is TORCS getting along?

Quote from PeterN :

...
As for open source, how well is TORCS getting along?

Not very well in consumer land.

TORCS was designed to be a distributed project from a very early stage, so it doesn't have the one guy's undocumented code base problem. But just like I said in the last post, TORCS is not really shiny with consumers, it's more of a research project.


To see how hot this baby is in the academic land, just type the name into Google Scholar and select "since 2013".

Quote from Scawen :

What I read is :

- Some prototypes of a 1080p have been demonstrated at a show, but they are not available.

- The dev kit is still the old low-res one and there are no confirmed plans to release a HD dev kit.

The developers don't seem to want to confirm or deny whether there will be an HD dev kit. Probably means they don't know.
https://developer.oculusvr.com ... topic.php?f=26&t=3726

You're correct on both points. On the last chat I had with one of the Oculus guys, he said it's very much unlikely there to be a separate public 1080p dev kit release, as the actual final consumer version launch should happen within a year.

I just hope they'll go for 1440p or 1600p eventually, 1080p is certainly a much better solution than the current 800p dev kit screen, but even 1080p Rift isn't near as sharp as a normal monitor from the average viewing distance.

I would rather see tyre physics tbh. Everything else (except content ) can wait!!