Quote from JackDaMaster :

Or, you know, inject less fuel.

Which yields less power. Seriously, what do they teach you? Or do you just not listen?

You really think in an f1 engine you can reduce the fuel mixture to cater for a 6hour race without having to downgrade the cam profile? Wow. I'm actually astonished. Sure there is alot of ECU shizzle you can do these days as far as valve timing goes but for such a change you NEED to change the cam profile.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Yea and as I said, how you gonna get the fuel milage out of it? You would have to restrict power out put by delaying the valve timing and leveling out the cam profile.

Quote from JackDaMaster :

Or, you know, inject less fuel.

Quote from BlueFlame :

Which yields less power. Seriously, what do they teach you? Or do you just not listen?

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Quote from BlueFlame :

You really think in an f1 engine you can reduce the fuel mixture to cater for a 6hour race without having to downgrade the cam profile? Wow. I'm actually astonished. Sure there is alot of ECU shizzle you can do these days but for such a change you NEED to change the cam profile.

Next years' engines have to do 5 races including practice and qualifying. The rules were deliberately made so that the distance a WEC engine does at Le Mans and an F1 engine have to do are roughly similar. They should last 6 hours easily.

Quote from BlueFlame :

You really think in an f1 engine you can reduce the fuel mixture to cater for a 6hour race without having to downgrade the cam profile? Wow. I'm actually astonished. Sure there is alot of ECU shizzle you can do these days as far as valve timing goes but for such a change you NEED to change the cam profile.

You should email Ferrari's engine department. I'm sure they'd love to know that they're wrong in considering using the same base engine for F1 and WEC.

Quote from JackDaMaster :

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Next years' engines have to do 5 races including practice and qualifying. The rules were deliberately made so that the distance a WEC engine does at Le Mans and an F1 engine have to do are roughly similar. They should last 6 hours easily.

When you inject less fuel for a consistent 6hours you restrict power output by shaving the cam profile otherwise you'd have the most inconsistent uneconomic motor second only to a Lada motor. Is it really that hard to grasp?

If you think a modern F1 motor can last 6hours straight with no changes then you obviously need more education than what you're getting.


@amp88 classifying an engine block as being 'the same base engine' is quite a stretch of the imagination.

Sure enough if Ferrari do such a thing it's only because Porsche are involved again and it will have absolutely 0 to do with the F1 program. They'll no doubt learn things they can apply in F1 but they aren't gonna do a WEC basically as a testing session for their F1 program. It makes an interesting read sure but it's not gonna be the case.

Quote from BlueFlame :

When you inject less fuel for a consistent 6hours you restrict power output by shaving the cam profile otherwise you'd have the most inconsistent uneconomic motor second only to a Lada motor

So you're saying that reducing the fuel input would make the engine uneconomic? I'm not 100% sure what you mean here because the sentence just doesn't make sense.

I'll just go back in time and tell F1 teams that the method they use to save fuel is crap.

The F1 engine wouldn't need any tweaking for fuel consumption.

The maximum tank size for Le Mans next year for a 4MJ hybrid (which the F1 engine is) is:
64.4L or 49.6kg

This would get you around 45 mins at Le Mans at the maximum of 4.65L/3.58Kg per lap.


The 2014 F1 engine uses 100kg/130L of fuel per hour at maximum.

So:

64.4L = 49.6kg (45 mins) Le Mans P1

130L = 100kg (1 hour) F1

There is very little difference.

Quote from JackDaMaster :

So you're saying that reducing the fuel input would make the engine uneconomic? I'm not 100% sure what you mean here because the sentence just doesn't make sense.

I'll just go back in time and tell F1 teams that the method they use to save fuel is crap.

OMG Really? If you reduce fuel input sufficiently you're burning fuel for nothing, because energy is wasted on the cam that's not engaging the valves at the correct time.

You should know that you can't just lean out a fuel mixture without massive power deficiency and heat increase. That's quite astonishing that it's lost on you. F1 engines have a margin in which they run fuel. Anything above or below that is reducing power.


@gav
A 50kg margin is huge in motorracing. I can't believe you're throwing 50kg within a 15minute window as 'not that much'.













You win. You're clearly trolling me.

Some years ago allowing the same engine in WEC and F1 was the master plan, don't forget that. And it sort of worked back in the 90s, giving us such beast like the 905 and XJR-14.

@Blueflame: To make it short, you have no idea of the technology involved in both series.

Quote from ACCAkut :

@Blueflame: To make it short, you have no idea of the technology involved in both series.

OK my bad. 50kg is the weight of a feather within 15 mins its absolutely nothing at all. You wouldn't even notice it lap for lap. No way. Just lower the fuel mixture completely. You won't notice a difference in engine performance. No you just burn less fuel. GTFO

Quote from ACCAkut :

Some years ago allowing the same engine in WEC and F1 was the master plan, don't forget that. And it sort of worked back in the 90s, giving us such beast like the 905 and XJR-14.

@Blueflame: To make it short, you have no idea of the technology involved in both series.

That's actually what cause world champion to die as it was a plan to make car manufacturer leave endurance to go to F1...So that's a completely different approach as now we are talking about extending the use of a F1 engine to endurance.

That have already been done as the V6 turbo that powered '76 Alpine-Renault Le Mans winning car was a sort of derivative of the yellow tea pot...

By the way, should I remember everyone that an LMP car, especially in Le Mans config have a ridiculous drag coefficient compared to F1 cars?

Quote from BlueFlame :

OMG Really? If you reduce fuel input sufficiently you're burning fuel for nothing, because energy is wasted on the cam that's not engaging the valves at the correct time.

You should know that you can't just lean out a fuel mixture without massive power deficiency and heat increase. That's quite astonishing that it's lost on you. F1 engines have a margin in which they run fuel. Anything above or below that is reducing power.


@gav
A 50kg margin is huge in motorracing. I can't believe you're throwing 50kg within a 15minute window as 'not that much'.













You win. You're clearly trolling me.

The Le Mans P1 cars can carry a maximum of approx 50kg, this would last 45 mins running at maximum power.

The F1 car uses 100kg/hour, so you could say 50kg for 30mins at maximum power.

Even in F1 next year the engines will be running at something close to 50kg/45mins because the races are approx 1h30 and there is a 100kg limit.

The way they control fuel usage is purely by injecting less fuel as F1 regulations say no VVT or VVL is allowed.

Quote from Gav190 :

The F1 engine wouldn't need any tweaking for fuel consumption.

The maximum tank size for Le Mans next year for a 4MJ hybrid (which the F1 engine is) is:
64.4L or 49.6kg

This would get you around 45 mins at Le Mans at the maximum of 4.65L/3.58Kg per lap.


The 2014 F1 engine uses 100kg/130L of fuel per hour at maximum.

So:

64.4L = 49.6kg (45 mins) Le Mans P1

130L = 100kg (1 hour) F1

There is very little difference.

an F1 race doesn't last 1 hour unless the race is stopped.

Quote from Mustafur :

an F1 race doesn't last 1 hour unless the race is stopped.

Quote from Gav190 :

The Le Mans P1 cars can carry a maximum of approx 50kg, this would last 45 mins running at maximum power.

The F1 car uses 100kg/hour, so you could say 50kg for 30mins at maximum power.

Even in F1 next year the engines will be running at something close to 50kg/45mins because the races are approx 1h30 and there is a 100kg limit.

LMP1 fuel tank is 50kg

F1 engine uses 50kg in 30 mins at maximum power

If the F1 race is 1h30 then it will need to use 50kg per 45mins, which is what the LMP1 uses at maximum power.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com ... i-R18-e-tron-quattro.html

damn thats sexy

Quote from Gav190 :

LMP1 fuel tank is 50kg

F1 engine uses 50kg in 30 mins at maximum power

If the F1 race is 1h30 then it will need to use 50kg per 45mins, which is what the LMP1 uses at maximum power.

Thats a pretty huge Fuel consumption change tbh.

Allan McNish retires.

I'll miss the interviews but one has to admit, it is a good moment to retire.

Quote from CSF :

Allan McNish retires.

Booo.


Although to be fair, perfect time to retire. New rules requiring fuller comitment with the drivers and he's just won his first World Drivers Championship....only thing missing I think is the Daytona 24Hr, came 2nd a few times but don't think he won it.

Ferrari flirt continues: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111925

Porsche announced Saturday that it has acquired majority ownership in Manthey Racing GmbH, its operations partner for this year’s factory GTE-Pro program in the FIA World Endurance Championship.

Source

Quote from deggis :

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com ... i-R18-e-tron-quattro.html

Shivers just went down my spine.

Quote from TypeRacing :

Porsche announced Saturday that it has acquired majority ownership in Manthey Racing GmbH, its operations partner for this year’s factory GTE-Pro program in the FIA World Endurance Championship.

Source

So are the Raeder brothers still in charge from January 1st on? Olaf said at the beginning of the year, that he retires.