Can't wait to see this get worked into the next episode of Utopia.

Quote from Anthoop :

I just shake my head when I hear that the aircraft is flying over a known war zone just to save money....

Just leave the people for dead in the field who have -nothing- to do with the whole situation there and not cooperating with any aid is not an act of war, it's an act of terrorism.

You are even less of a human when you immediately start looting the dead, which they did. Apparently Russian culture, I find it disgusting.

Quote from Nilex :

1. what was a civil passenger plane doing flying over the warzone
2. how does the Ukrainian Interior Ministry ad ... was fired by separatists already knows this
3. exact plane, nr. of passengers, and it's position at the time of loss of contact already determined
False flag taste all over this...

Let assume the worst case scenario:
Plane went there by a fluke accident, possibly emergency landing or whatever. Gets shoot down by the anti-fascist. Looks terrible for them. They provided a reason for an immediate act of democratization. Only from their POV it's a legitimate military target providing the have no means of identification.

Hi Nil..

You have the right thoughts. By knowing you.. I know we are on the same line

I asked myself the questions, who were on board of that plane and who would have the interest to shoot it out of the air?

Then combine what you have said to that huge laugh of that so called media post by the separists that they have shot the plane. It made me even more sure about it being a false flag. This is a 'win, win' for one country again if the people would believe this so called 'official' story. You just have to do some research about how one particular country tries to justify 'business' since like 1960 and at least I come to a certain conclusion of what this looks like again.

I feel for quite a time now that one party is trying to do so much to provoke war, and it is not Russia.

Dutch 'established' media were very quick with showing a Ukrainian half crying prime minister on television directly pointing to the Russian separists and so indirectly to Russia, that they have been the cause. This without him really being able to know the true story. Black is white and white is black. This stinks like hell.

Quote from danielroelofs :

I feel for quite a time now that one party is trying to do so much to provoke war, and it is not Russia.

What exactly do the Ukrainian leadership stand to gain by provoking all-out war with Russia?

Quote from Racer X NZ :

FYI, The US's drone state Saudi Arabia has been flying in Al Queda troops from Syria at a huge rate, do your own research, if you are dumb enough to claim I'm lying then I'll post links but I'd like to think that your bright enough to find that for yourselves.

Good post. The ones shouting: conspiracy! Are the ones who do not do any kind of research on such matters or are too faint hearted to accept that their world is collapsing by them noticing their little world isn't that straight and honest but that nothing is what it seems to be.

Quote from amp88 :

What exactly do the Ukrainian leadership stand to gain by provoking all-out war with Russia?

The Ukraine alone not much perhaps... All this shit for the last decade or something.. Lybia, Jemen, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrein, Egypt, Syria ( In which they failed luckily which might have hurt their feelings wonder what kind of influence that has on current situation..), Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the many more I forget? Still not rining an alarmbell? Are caused by one nation.. who have nasty tactics to cause some kind of huge riots which must 'justify' Interventions.

Will be useless to say more unless the one talking to has done some historical research himself..

Quote from danielroelofs :

The Ukraine alone not much perhaps... All this shit for the last decade or something.. Lybia, Jemen, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrein, Egypt, Syria ( In which they failed luckily which might have hurt their feelings wonder what kind of influence that has on current situation..), Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the many more I forget? Still not rining an alarmbell? Are caused by one nation.. who have nasty tactics to cause some kind of huge riots which must 'justify' Interventions.

Will be useless to say more unless the one talking to has done some historical research himself..

Ah, I see...well, that makes a lot more sense!

...ok

Forum really didn't need more Racer Xes.

Only very few facts are known so far:
- aircraft flew at 10600 meters altitude and fell
- flight was under direction of Kiev air traffic control, after that Dnipropetrovsk
- all 298 passengers deceased
- aircraft lost contact near Kremenchuk, over the territory under control of Kiev air traffic control
- wreckage lies 60km from Russian border on territory under the control of Donetsk People's Republic
The rest are speculations and assumptions used in information war and nothing else.

Source translated with google english

I guess this was the last passenger plane cruising above a warzone where military aircraft get shoot down on a daily basis. Maybe for a couple of you its fine to jump out of a window after you see other people do it.

Two outcomes imo:
- [fascist doing] Pre-planned false flag with a familiar signature or another mistake that will take 6 months to acknowledge. Will result in nothing as usual. No court trials, no nothing. Business as usual...
- [anti-fascist doing] legit attempt of downing a unknown threat by the people who are defending against a terror assault, lead and financed by the US and its allies, resulting in a horrible mistake. Result: continued demonization of the defenders, Russians and common sense by the western media...

Either way truth will come out, but who will remain to hear it or even care about it?

In the Netherlands? For months.. None of the bodies are even back on home ground.

US military already confirmed a rocket launch, I find the US a better source then that Russian crap.

But if people are so in love with Russia we might as well put the wall back and let everything convert back to communism because its so awesome right?

Quote from Nilex :

The rest are speculations and assumptions used in information war and nothing else.

What do you think about the posting on social media by Igor Girkin where he claimed responsibility for downing what he thought at the time was a military plane? He was celebrating this achievement and posted a couple of videos. Then some time later the posting was removed, presumably when he/they learned that the plane which was downed was actually a civilian airliner? Do you think someone 'hacked' the account and faked a post?

Does anybody know how the YouTube creation and tagging time work? I find it rather odd that some of those allegedly intercepted phone calls uploaded by Ukrainian Intelligence seem to have been created the evening before this all happened. I'm not sure if timezones would account for the difference. I'm on a pretty slow connection now so I cannot check this against my own video.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g)

Quote from MadCatX :

Does anybody know how the YouTube creation and tagging time work? I find it rather odd that some of those allegedly intercepted phone calls uploaded by Ukrainian Intelligence seem to have been created the evening before this all happened. I'm not sure if timezones would account for the difference. I'm on a pretty slow connection now so I cannot check this against my own video.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g)

I downloaded a video which I uploaded to YouTube this afternoon. The video files which went into the edit were created last night (the 18th July 2014) at between about 19:20 and 20:00 (all times are GMT). The edited video file was created this afternoon (19th July 2014) at about 12:48. The video was uploaded to YouTube starting at around 13:00. It finished processing and I got the "Congrats, your video's on YouTube" email at 13:53. This is the MediaInfo output for the video I re-downloaded from YouTube (using JDownloader):


As you can see, the 'Encoded data' and 'Tagged date' entries show one day earlier than they should. This looks like some configuration problem on YouTube's end.

Not unusual having 'Your to blame' videos posted before the event happens. Sandy Hook is a great example of this.......

Ukranian Air Traffic control dropped the hight from a requested 35000 ft to 33000 ft, and also changed the flight track. Right over a war zone to be exact.

'We don't need more Racer X posts ?'

So, what your saying is that we should all believe what we're told by the US to believe. WHY would the Russians want to shoot down a Malaysian aircraft ?, What happened to MH370 ?, ( FYI I've already posted on this ) WHY did the US refuse to release the radar from Diego Garcia ? They have military grade radar that MUST have tracked the flight. They (the US) were the ones who REFUSED to release this stating 'National Security'.....

In NZ, quoting 'National Security' = COVERUP !!!!

This planet has too many idiots.

Couldn't agree more.........

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Not unusual having 'Your to blame' videos posted before the event happens. Sandy Hook is a great example of this.......

I thought that amp88 just showed that YouTube sets the creation time one day ahead of the actual time of uploading.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Ukranian Air Traffic control dropped the hight from a requested 35000 ft to 33000 ft, and also changed the flight track. Right over a war zone to be exact.

It didn't. Check the tracking information on FlightRadat24.com or FlightAware.com. You'll find that it followed exactly the same path as other MH17 flights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch? ... UT3w&feature=youtu.be

Did it ?, this seems to suggest something different, using 'your' information.

Let's now look at this, http://en.ria.ru/politics/2014 ... utheastern-Republics.html'
Ukrainian authorities are preparing international legal claims on the recognition of the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics as terrorist organizations, the press service of the Ukrainian president reported.

NATO believes they are setting up a base of operations against Russia in the Ukraine. Saudi Arabia is recruiting jihadists from across Europe, with 5000 to be in Ukraine, armed and trained both in Poland and Ukraine, in a month. However, command of this force falls, not to Kiev or even Langley but to the most extreme elements fighting in Syria and Iraq.
NATO and now Saudi Arabia are establishing the Ukraine as a base of operations for Al Qaeda, AQIU (Al Qaeda In Ukraine). Many of those recruited are from veterans of the Syrian war, having survived the infighting between insurgent groups and the onslaught of the Syrian Army.
http://syrianfreepress.wordpre ... ato-junta-joins-al-qaeda/

This is strongly supported by Western Media as well.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com ... backs-al-qaeda-nazis.html
http://journal-neo.org/2014/05/16/kiev-junta-joins-al-qaeda/
http://socioecohistory.wordpre ... -qaeda-in-northern-syria/
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/ ... ssias-invasion-of-ukraine
http://www.sott.net/article/27 ... lize-situation-in-Ukraine

And this, "Ironically, this “fake” foreign policy shift from “countering” Iran’s (alleged) support of Al Qaeda to actually “collaborating” with Tehran “in going after Al Qaeda”, didn’t raise an eye-bat in the media or the US Congress.
Notwithstanding these apparent contradictions (see below for further analysis) Secretary of State John Kerry, was emphatic: the US government will “communicate” with Tehran with regard to “pushing back the Islamist terrorists”.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/i ... terrorism/5387998?print=1

And, given the complete lack of reporting about Gaza, what may be a contributing factor ?
http://www.al-monitor.com/puls ... hore-gas-field-gaza.html#
In a significant political and economic development, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas met Jan. 23 with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The meeting came as a prerequisite to officially sign an investment agreement aiming to develop the Gaza offshore gas field in the Mediterranean Sea. It is only logical to assume that this step will raise the ire of Israel. The latter does not appreciate the role Russia plays in the region, especially since Israel has never come to an agreement with Russia.

Now, who claims that this field is theirs ?
Never mind the 'war on terror' rhetoric, writes Nafeez Ahmed. The purpose of Israel's escalating assault on Gaza is to control the Territory's 1.4 trillion cubic feet of gas - and so keep Palestine poor and weak, gain massive export revenues, and avert its own domestic energy crisis.
http://www.theecologist.org/Ne ... s_4_billion_gas_grab.html

4 Billion $$$ seems to be a great incentive here. Jew (Ashkenazi to be accurate), money, where may this have come up before ?


This week, that fantasy can be seen clearly for what it is, as Dmitro Yarosh, the leader of Pravy Sektor (Right Sector) has met with the Israeli ambassador to the Ukraine, Reuven Din El, and pledged his allegiance to the Jewish race.

Dmitro Yarosh, leader of Right Sector, met with Israel’s ambassador to Ukraine, Reuven Din El, and told him that their movement rejects anti-Semitism and xenophobia and will not tolerate it. He said their goals were a democratic Ukraine, transparent government, ending corruption, and equal opportunity for all ethnic groups.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ ... government_b_4875833.html

Nuland spend the better part of her tenure so far shuttling back and forth to Ukraine in order to overthrow the modertaly pro-Russian president and install someone more condusive to Jewish supremacist interests. Is it any surprise that Nuland’s choice, as she voiced in her famous F*** the EU phone conversation, was fellow Jewish tribalist Arseniy Yatsenyuk (seen below), who is the Prime Minister of the government that emerged from the coup. Now Yatsenyuk’s government is extending the Zio-nepotism by appointing as Dnepropetrovsk governor a Jewish oligarch by the name of Igor Kolomoysky, who has Israeli citizenship.
http://davidduke.com/passing-favor/

May be suggestive but these are all facts, (That I'm expecting will be pointed out that we can't discuss).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

Quote from Racer X NZ :

https://www.youtube.com/watch? ... UT3w&feature=youtu.be

Did it ?, this seems to suggest something different, using 'your' information.

Let's have a look at come context here.

From 12th July 2014


From 14th July 2014


From 16th July 2014


From 17th July 2014


It is not unusual for aircraft to be routed slightly away from their original route to avoid bad weather or traffic congestion. There were also two other aircraft in MH17 vicinity at the moment it crashed (https://twitter.com/flightrada ... 89843415002001408/photo/1) so if MH17 wasn't there, they could've hit another passenger aircraft.

Well, that's the actual flight rather than the highly interesting info you posted. Mine actually gives graphical info........

Note, this change of flight plan/hight was required by the Ukraine Air Traffic control.
And Putin's Aircraft was in the same flight zone/hight within a 30 minute time period.
I've got no idea who actually shot it down, BUT, why the F^$@ would Russia want to ? And I note the complete lack of responce to the US action over flight MH370. Too awkward to answer ?

Operation Northwoods ????????

In response to a request for pretexts for military intervention by the Chief of Operations of the Cuba Project, Brig. Gen. Edward Lansdale, the document listed methods, and outlined plans, that the authors believed would garner public and international support for U.S. military intervention in Cuba. (Russia, Ukraine)

The plan called for U.S. personnel to disguise themselves as agents of the Cuban (Russia, Al Queda) government and to engage in terrorist attacks on the U.S. base at Guantanamo Bay. It also called for terrorist attacks within the United States that would be conducted by pro-U.S. forces disguising themselves as Cuban (Russian, Al Queda) agents.

It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban (Russian) aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama, or Venezuela. ( Or where ever) The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. (Russia, Ukraine) The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight. (Or a public flight, given the 'War On Terror"tm"')
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

That's a Wikipedia quote on an actual US investigated operation, Given that JFK was murdered shortly after turning this awesome plan down, given everything else the US does, it's worth considering.
Like the 'Boy who cried Wolf', You plan this s#!^, you'll be suspected of doing it.

Quote from dfgjkl :

how come is US crap is better taste then Russian crap to you?

Probably because we have not invaded Canada or Mexico yet

Quote from dfgjkl :

russia did?

He meant border neighbours.

Quote from Mustangman759 :

Probably because we have not invaded Canada or Mexico yet

Mexican–American War

Quote :

Combat operations lasted a year and a half, from the spring of 1846 to the fall of 1847. American forces quickly occupied New Mexico and California, then invaded parts of Northeastern Mexico and Northwest Mexico

Quote from amp88 :

Mexican–American War

Lets stick to the modern times please
Lets not forget Russia's invasion of Afghanistan... I know someone who served there and a few villages thought the Americans were Russians... History speaks

The shitty thing is the politically based finger pointing from sides. The blame is entirely on the cost cutting airlines. I am sure if you had gone down the cabin of that plane prior to take off and said "Ok, guys, we'll be short cutting it over Donetsk, you know that region where both sides are supplied with all of Russia's finest equipment" everyone would have got the hell off it.

It doesn't matter who fired it, the plane should not have been there and all this does is expose the need to check the routes of long distance flights because clearly safety is of secondary concern to some airlines.