Quote from dekojester :

New Dimension Racing (and perhaps other leagues) have (and may/will) stop operations in LFS for the time being while the community has stagnate. I can absolutely guarantee that the NDR stop down is soley due to the state of the community, and not the slow development pace. It's a shame the community is as weak as it is, as the possibilities for great on-track action are still there, if only the people would do so. Vicious cycle, that sadly has claimed victims.

I have to disagree here. In my opinion LFS has very strong community compared how long it's been without major updates. It's just that no one wants to drive 5 years same tracks and cars. Now recently there has come the "limit". No updates in a long time and lots of other simulators have been released. No doubt there will leave people to other games. It's not community's fault that there is "better" games in market.

For me LFS is still the best racing simulator on the market. It's just that not everyone think like that. And you can't really blame them. In my opinion it's stupid to use words like "weak community" to game which has been 7 years without updating their content.

Quote from CardsetCrazy :

For me LFS is still the best racing simulator on the market. It's just that not everyone think like that. And you can't really blame them. In my opinion it's stupid to use words like "weak community" to game which has been 7 years without updating their content.

The sadder part is that people are leaving LFS for games with worse/absolutely awful online functionality like AC, or games with terrible physics like iRacing/pCARS.

I've maintained that content will revive LFS, no matter how "dead" it is, as LFS is still the only sim that gets the whole online experience perfect.

Quote from dekojester :

The lessons learned from being able to scan and develop Rockingham are evident in this improved Westhill. Scavier have proven their ability to adapt where it is needed in regards to the actual output.

??????????

Everytime I ask this my post is deleted...........

Cool, I'm sure Westhill mk2 will be great, see deleted for my compliments, But, given your post as a mod Deko, I'd really like to know what is happening with Rockingham ?

Is it going to be released to the common plebs ?, Does it need more work ?, some info would be appreciated given how long it's been finished for.

Personally, an LFS update will be great, although, from my point of view, RSRBR have managed 3/4 monthly updates, AC has been developed and released, Power and Glory give modding, several Rockingham versions, as well as any track you can poke a stick at, all this since the last major LFS update.

I love this game, I'm coming up to 10 years now of being S2 licenced so I'm more than happy with my moneys worth. BUT, I'd love to pay to get a serious update, like S3, I want to see this game develop and grow. What we are hearing is good , but I'd like to see more than talk.

Personally, I'm fully expecting this post to be deleted as well, but lets see........

You don't know the difference between a forum moderator and a game/sim developer?

Quote :

It's just that no one wants to drive 5 years same tracks and cars. Now recently there has come the "limit". No updates in a long time and lots of other simulators have been released. No doubt there will leave people to other games. It's not community's fault that there is "better" games in market.

pure truth

LFS is super but no updates is problem. I'm curious if will upadate Westhill for long time last or progress will keep.

Quote from dekojester :

New Dimension Racing (and perhaps other leagues) have (and may/will) stop operations in LFS for the time being while the community has stagnate. I can absolutely guarantee that the NDR stop down is soley due to the state of the community, and not the slow development pace. It's a shame the community is as weak as it is, as the possibilities for great on-track action are still there, if only the people would do so. Vicious cycle, that sadly has claimed victims.

There's a direct coloration between the two though... slow down = people here for a long time want something new = find something new = stop playing older game.

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :

i think devs should not say they gonna realese things untill they actually do.

People complained when there were no progress reports and now people are complaining when there are?

Without progress reports, teasers and the glimmer of hope that at some point we might actually get new content, the LFS community would be in a far worse state than it is at the moment.

Quote from mbutcher :

hope that at some point we might actually get new content, the LFS community would be in a far worse state than it is at the moment.

You think? I think we've reached a point where it doesn't really matter anymore.

Quote from dekojester :

... It's a shame the community is as weak as it is, as the possibilities for great on-track action are still there, if only the people would do so.

The competitive part of the community has definitely done their part to keep both LFS and NDR afloat. Calling the community weak because people eventually had enough of driving the same combinations forever? That's an outright insult.

Quote from wildstyle :

Quote from dekojester :

... It's a shame the community is as weak as it is, as the possibilities for great on-track action are still there, if only the people would do so.

The competitive part of the community has definitely done their part to keep both LFS and NDR afloat. Calling the community weak because people eventually had enough of driving the same combinations forever? That's an outright insult.

I said pretty much the same. His reply: "[15:56:15] Jonathan Palmer: Nah, for spending more time bitching about the slow development than using what was available"

No matter what drivers you race with or how competitive the races are, you just have to get bored of the same things at some point. This is when the motivation drops. Most of those people have driven the same combos hundreds of times. It's hard to be original.

Quote from OTone :

Not only that; devs don't care one single bit of what 90% of the community actually want.

Oh... do you mean that only 10% of the community wants a new track?

How did you work out this statistic?

In my opinion the community wants firstly new tracks and secondly the new tyre physics. Actually loads of people want the "holy grail" Scirocco. But it's just a medium powered front wheel drive road car... most significant thing about the Scirocco is it kick started the development of the new tyre physics model, which will be really nice to drive when I can get it out there. in the meantime we're sorting out some tracks for people to drive.

But you are right, we'll do what we think is best. If people want to use other sims, that is fine, really that is just fine! We want people to have fun doing what they like to do!

I'm looking forward to seeing an increase in online activity when the new track is out, so we're working to sort that out as quickly as we can, up to a good standard (the best standard of any track we have done).

The Scirocco should have a facelift done when it's released!

Scawen is getting fed up by all the stupid people damn thats just the way life is but please Scawen dont give up on us, i always get excited then i see you post about anything, the force is with you!

Quote from Scawen :

In my opinion the community wants firstly new tracks and secondly the new tyre physics. Actually loads of people want the "holy grail" Scirocco. But it's just a medium powered front wheel drive road car...

Just curious whether you still have the licence to release Scirocco or is it purely held back because you felt it didn't drive good enough with the latest (at the time) iteration of the tyre model?

I'm not quite following the logic if holding back the Scirocco was just a personal decision from the devs (Scawen). If the then newly developed tyre model drove nice but in some instances were not behaving as intended, was the new tyre model eventually worse than the current tyre model? If so, why not just release the Scirocco as it would have been no worse than the FXO and people would have whined less and had something new to enjoy for a while.

Personally I would be more happy with a more lively track surface than anything else. The silky smooth tracks feel really artificial now that I've grown used to the laser scanned tracks in iRacing. I'm sure you could code a program that would liven up the track surface with dips and bumps. Sure it takes a bit more horsepower but in ten years the computing power has gone up too. And oh yeah, Steam user statistics say that only 4% of Steam users have XP as their OS so time to move on

Quote from Scawen :

Actually loads of people want the "holy grail" Scirocco. But it's just a medium powered front wheel drive road car

people dont want the scirocco because its such an amazing car but because its symbolic for the day lfs' development ground to a halt half a decade ago
finally getting it out will be perceived as an act of unclogging the development pipeline

Yes, the new tyre model in its current state feels good to drive if you don't use silly settings but is worse than the old tyre model overall. For example, as some aspects of it are simulated completely wrongly, you can change a setup option to produce enormous grip. It's absolutely impossible to release at the moment, without any question at all. It would instantly kill all online racing as we know it. As well as some things being totally wrong, some things are just totally unfinished.

But I've explained this many times before. I went so long into that tyre model development but development also slowed down at the time as my life changed a lot around then. But now I'm an active cyclist and runner with my two kids at school and I'm working hard. You could say it's regrettable that LFS development slowed for some years or you could say that was inevitable, and good that it continues now. Personally I can't worry about details of the past and I'm looking forward to lots of good things to come. I am not at all concerned that people go and use other sims, I'm not jealous of them or something like that.

Quote from Scawen :

I'm not jealous of them or something like that.

It's hard to be jealous of people who are paying a sum of money to fundementally play NR2003 with the 800th failed iteration of Kaermer physics.

Quote from aaltomar :

Just curious whether you still have the licence to release Scirocco or is it purely held back because you felt it didn't drive good enough with the latest (at the time) iteration of the tyre model?

Exactly the same as we have said all the time. The past hasn't changed. We didn't release it, because it wasn't satisfactory, in our opinion, with the current LFS tyre physics. We had to use unrealistic setups to make it feel good. That's why I started on the new tyre physics.

Quote from aaltomar :

And oh yeah, Steam user statistics say that only 4% of Steam users have XP as their OS so time to move on

I actually think you are just trying to annoy me with that comment. What on earth are you really talking about? Is this something to do with the fact that we still use DirectX 9?

Anyone who knows anything about DirectX understands that DX9 has enormous power that we are hardly using yet. It is absurd to suggest that it is not good enough for LFS. It does have great advantages over DX8.1, but there isn't any such leap from DX9 to later versions of DX, which are mainly designed to be deliberately incompatible, to force people onto later versions of Windows because MS has to resort to those kind of tactics. It does indeed have one advantage of being possible to use on XP and Linux, that is true. But it's not holiding us back in any way, except by making me waste valuable minutes trying to explain to people like you, who don't understand what DX9 actually is.

DX9 is not a hindrance.

You should try to think for yourself, instead of falling for this corporate advertising nonsense.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Quote from Scawen :

I'm not jealous of them or something like that.

It's hard to be jealous of people who are paying a sum of money to fundementally play NR2003 with the 800th failed iteration of Kaermer physics.

Off topic, times change also in the Kaemmerland. The recent NTM iterations feel really good even if overdring (drifting) comfortably is still nigh impossible. I just like the overall package, sounds, graphics, performance and content. And as I commented already the track surface of laser scanned track which I'm sure could also be simulated in LFS.

And thanks Scawen for the comment on the past tyre model challenges.

Quote from Scawen :

I actually think you are just trying to annoy me with that comment. What on earth are you really talking about? Is this something to do with the fact that we still use DirectX 9?

You read to much in to that comment of mine. It was meant more as an encouragement to push LFS graphically and otherwise since I remember you saying something along the lines that there are still a lot of XP users and we can't go forward because of this (and I also remember the troubles you had when transitioning your development to Windows 7). This is the impression I've gotten, so I'm not quoting here.

No need to get condescending on me on the last part, not appreciated even if I understand where it's coming from.

Quote from Scawen :

Actually loads of people want the "holy grail" Nordschleife.

fixed

Thanks for the updates, and for the gentle sarcasm at the nth mindless DX9/XP bashing post

On the positive side, you get to feel like a teacher... educating masses is a job that requires dedication!

Quote from aaltomar :

I remember you saying something along the lines that there are still a lot of XP users and we can't go forward because of this

you are really stretching to define "going forward".

yes ok LFS has no blur effect tho...

https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1830424#post1830424

Quote Scawen:
"Not a possibilty because LFS must still work on XP and I will not budge on this point. Millions of people use XP and it's a perfectly good operating system, still the best in many ways. I don't have to be part of Microsoft's efforts to move everyone off it. They are only doing that to try and screw more money out of existing customers."

So maybe I read to much into this I guess. And sorry for the off topic, going to bed now