Had a few practice laps with the BMW 235i. Here's my sloppy attempt.



7:12.27

On a non-DP#1 note, the 180sx Kouki mod is slideways heaven :O

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Also it's already a bad thing if you need proper mods for a game to feel good...

wat

Quote from Keling :

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Also it's already a bad thing if you need proper mods for a game to feel good...

wat

I find it hilarious that people defend rF like that. I love when people say how bad it is and then someone always comes and says "try this and that mod".

What are the developers collecting money for, once the modders are doing the dirty job?

1.1.1
- Launcher: new option in Options > General to ignore Windows' display scaling
- Launcher: launcher will now reset to default theme on version change
- Launcher: potential fix for rare crash on exit
- Launcher default theme: further additions to the handling of missing/problematic mod content
- Added Visual Studio DLLs
- Now correctly set replay speed for replay files recorded with older versions of AC
- improved exterior m235i backfire envelopment
- Corrected C9 numbers on skin
- Corrected Alfa GTA tyres naming
- Custom post processes are now correctly located by the launcher in Documents/Assetto Corsa/cfg/ppfilters

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Quote from Keling :

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

Also it's already a bad thing if you need proper mods for a game to feel good...

wat

I find it hilarious that people defend rF like that. I love when people say how bad it is and then someone always comes and says "try this and that mod".

What are the developers collecting money for, once the modders are doing the dirty job?

I find it hilarious that people seem to get it with ac that it is moddable sim. But with rf it being moddable is suddenly a horrible sin. Omg dem nasty developers grabbing them moneys out of modders arses! A moddable sim uses mods - it is that simple. With rf1 the best content is mods because that's the way it was built. And huge majority of the mods is really poor so you need to know what's worth trying.

Maybe it is just a mindset issue. Things need to be labelled either being good or bad. A sim can't have good and bad things while still being good or bad overall. It needs to be labelled easily and quickly into one of the groups. So rf1 is shit no matter what. Ac is amazing. Rf1 goes into the shitbox where everything in it is shit and ac is in the other box where only the good stuff exists. What if told you that it doesn't need to be that way? What if single features could be valued and rated separately. Like ffb. And other categories exist instead of just shit and awesome?

So what if the default ffb of rf1 can be replaced and fixed with a mod? What then if the default content in rf1 is really poor when there some true gems in the mods which are better than fully priced games?

All I'm saying is that the ffb in ac is poorer compared to rf1 (realfeel) and rf2. But obviously you need good quality mods. For rf1 there are the historix cars, all of niel's cars (vette, supra, nsx) and probably others. Then get realfeel (it also comes with historix, maybe even with the niels cars too). And of course the mods matter. Just like it is possible to create utterly horrible driving cars in rf1 it is in ac. Ac offers much better support for modding which prevents some big mistakes happening that did happen with rf1.

But the fact is a lot of the rf1 mods. Specially the early ones were really really poor. Because of tires and suspension. Ac offers you list of almost ready-to-go tires and has suspension editor which graphically shows the suspension parts. In rf1 all you had was strangely named variables and suspension editing in notepad.

Is there a 'legal' package of rF1 and some good mod with real feel applied, with some easy to install option?

But let's just make something clear, when you say FF, is it JUST the ff that is good, or the whole physics package? FF in my book is not just the 'effects', but the connection with the road, the physics, the handling..

Quote from Hyperactive :

I find it hilarious that people seem to get it with ac that it is moddable sim. But with rf it being moddable is suddenly a horrible sin.

What if I told you, default content in AC doesn't feel crap at all... They don't need modders to keep the game alive. Now look at rF1. Install 10 properly done mods, get realfeel, etc. Pain in the ass.

I'm not against modding at all. But when the mods (good ones) are 100x better done than the stock content, that's quite awkward.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Quote from BigPeBe :

Still lots of fun to drive, but gotta say AC FFB feels still quite dead which kinda keeps me from putting any more time in to this sim. Because of the better FFB I have much more fun driving the Alfas on Power & Glory mod for GTR2.

I see few people saying this, but i'm really baffled and only thing i can think off is that your wheels are not setup correctly.. :/ FFB is awesome.

Believe me, I have tried pretty much everything to setup the FFB to a good level. But no use, it's still meh.

I use G27 with a bigger wheel bolted on to it (330mm) which is part of the problem, but it works well on other sims so I know it is possible. The main problem seems to be that the FFB is either just too damn weak, or to get to an acceptable level it's clipping constantly. It's not horrible, it seems to be ok, I can feel the car's balance etc, but the main problem is I can't feel how much grip there is available on the front tires, which makes initial turn in very "boring".
I don't know if the lack of feeling for grip is caused by the too weak FFB, but it's possible. Also adding more min force doesn't help, it just makes the wheel rattle annoyingly.

Another thing that I have noticed as an example is that if I'm drifting and I'm transitioning from a turn to another turn and I have to change direction, in GTR2 (PnGv3 Alfa 1750GTAm) I can easily throw the wheel to the opposing direction and the wheel quickly goes to it's direction (caster effect) but in AC the effect is a little weak and the wheel turns in a slower, "softer" manner.

I have read that people who have replaced their Logitech wheel with a stronger wheel (ie. T300RS) have experienced an major update on the FFB. I would like to try this out, but I don't currently feel like spending all that money on a wheel, especially since the league I drive in currently is GTR2 based and in this the FFB feels good.

Agree about the G27
If you like strong FFB you will be disappointed, because clipping.
Same thing with the 'self aligning torque' G27 just can't keep up with low FFB, that's why I don't use 900 degrees, 720 is the max for me
So just buy better wheel or lower the ffb and deal with it..

Well actually I'm hoping that they can sort out the FFB for Logitech wheels before it gets to the point the leagues I might be interested start transforming to AC. Or maybe my G27 brakes down and I can justify spending the money.

rF1, even with realfeel has better ffb than Assetto? Really?

You need to get a better wheel, because that to me is utter nonsense.

Telling Hyperactive to buy a better wheel is like telling the Queen she's a peasant.

Hyperactive already has a very expensive sim setup IIRC.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Telling Hyperactive to buy a better wheel is like telling the Queen she's a peasant.

Hyperactive already has a very expensive sim setup IIRC.

So is better then AC Dustin? I always 'found myself' in yours and Tristan's posts when it comes to physics and force feedback.. we seem to have similiar taste in that stuff, if you can call it like that.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Is there a 'legal' package of rF1 and some good mod with real feel applied, with some easy to install option?

But let's just make something clear, when you say FF, is it JUST the ff that is good, or the whole physics package? FF in my book is not just the 'effects', but the connection with the road, the physics, the handling..

FFB is better. Not effects. I turn all effects off that are not physics-based. But the direct physical feedback is just overall better quality in rf1 and 2.

Physics not imho but good rf1 mods are still amazing to drive. Well I don't really have that much in-depth info about the rf1 physics from the modding side of things but I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about ac. And what I know about rf1 is that it allows to create a car with tons more detail. Whereas in ac the whole suspension setup is basically 20 lines in rf1 it is closer to 100 lines. But as far as hotlapping goes ac wins for me. For a complete sim ac is still pretty dire but that's separate issue.

If you want a package download rf1 lite and install the historix mod on top that. It (historix) comes with a thorough pdf that explains pretty much everything. Or just get the nsx for rf.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

I'm not against modding at all. But when the mods (good ones) are 100x better done than the stock content, that's quite awkward.

Why is it awkward to you? I'd imagine it could be akward for ISI but why should the end user care at all? If a modder made a good mod for lfs that drove better than anything else why should it be awkward for lfs player?

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Telling Hyperactive to buy a better wheel is like telling the Queen she's a peasant.

Hyperactive already has a very expensive sim setup IIRC.

Fanatec 911 turbo s + csp v1 pedals.
Basically it is somewhere between tr500 and g25.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

I'm not against modding at all. But when the mods (good ones) are 100x better done than the stock content, that's quite awkward.

Why is it awkward to you? I'd imagine it could be akward for ISI but why should the end user care at all? If a modder made a good mod for lfs that drove better than anything else why should it be awkward for lfs player

Yes, I meant the developers. Users are rather happy about that.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Telling Hyperactive to buy a better wheel is like telling the Queen she's a peasant.

Hyperactive already has a very expensive sim setup IIRC.

So is better then AC Dustin? I always 'found myself' in yours and Tristan's posts when it comes to physics and force feedback.. we seem to have similiar taste in that stuff, if you can call it like that.

I don't really have a great base of knowledge about rFactor. I did buy rFactor 2, tried it out for a week, thought the FFB felt absolutely terrible (no concept of having grip or not) so I took up their money back offer. It wasn't inspiring at all, and none of the mods I installed felt any better.

I never did buy rF1 though. For some unknown reason, It never interested me to buy it.

That said, I thought Hyperactive had a different setup than he did.. Although I could be getting him confused with Matrixi. All finns look the same after all.

Matrixi some time ago did onboard drifting vid, with the famous Niels NSX, Hi said physics was good, but not as good as AC

The people working on a physics engine and the people working on content are two different groups.

To make a physics engine right, you need to know the common vehicle dynamics models used to simulate different aspects of vehicle behaviour, and make software implementations that are both technically right and computing-wise effective, hopefully using up most of the performance on the target hardware but no more.

To make content that's physically right, you need to understand the black magic of reverse engineering and on a high level mathematical optimization for complex non-linear models.

The two groups do share dynamics theory in common but skill sets required are quite different.


The ISI physics engine devs don't have to feel bad for anything as long as one mod in this world is known to be good. Even if 99% of the data going into the software is carp and therefore creating crappy results, it's not their fault. A software developer can not stop bad data from going into the code. GIGO.

The content guys working for ISI, however, are a totally different story.


As for whether it's reasonable for software vendors to distribute good engine with poor data and enjoy the money, it is. They did the physics engine. If this task was easy good mod builders would come up with their own systems instead, which is not happening. Even if the product doesn't work well out of the box, what they offer has value. (I agree it's bad business practice though.)


BTW, in case someone didn't know:
1. ISI make their engine for industrial use first and they get tons of money from selling DATA to industrial clients. I guess the company doesn't really care about feeding top-quality data to something we pay $40 for.
2. Some official ISI content is out sourced.

Always when someone mentions rf or gmotor this forum seems to explode.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

...
- M235i is probably the easiest racing car to drive, in the history of ever. It's a car that immediately made me think "I could easily do 24h in this."
...

oh yes, this is so true ! I am finally able to finish a lap around the green hell without spinning or ending into a wall !
Looks like arcade mode turned on , but at least for a noob like myself (let's be honest, I have not played AC so much and I got my G27 for only few days ... discovering ffb, etc ...), I will find it pleasant.
I would have prefer having fun in the alfa and its 4wd, but I am truely disconnected from the car compared to LFS ... The car is out of my control too quickly ^^ ... and we are talking about a 4wd car with slick tires !!
... and I am not speaking of when at 30km/h I am able to loose the car control too ... Let's suppose I am lacking of reflex.

BTW, the Nordschleife is quite (very in fact) beautiful (AC is top on this part) ! Clearly something to be done by Eric for LFS

Holy F... I love this car!

cool gif
Blue flames?

Yep, check this post (Something Kunos could've done themselves)

http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/assetto-corsa-1-1-and-dream-pack-1-released.21445/page-32#post-417559