I'm in the market to buy a new family car, the beat up old '96 Toyota Estima Lucida 7 seater is just about ready for the scrap pile.

After a bit of looking around the local (New Zealand) car sales websites I've decided to go for something European rather than the usual Japanese fodder.

Having little knowledge and experience with anything other than Japanese, old British cars (early Leyland and Morris) and Russian (proud owner of what is now my third Lada Niva). I'd like to hear from people who have a little local knowledge or even just your opinion.

Currently under consideration are:
07-09 Volvo V50 2.4 SE
07-10 Audi A4 Avant
Maybe Volkswagen Passat (not super keen on these)
Also been offered 07 Mercedes C180 Kompressor (bit of wanker factor?)

Can get low km, very tidy examples for under $15k NZD (or about $7.6k GBP)

The A4 and Passat are the same car underneath (Both Volkswawgen group). If you like the A4 but maybe want something a bit lower cost, the Seat Exeo is the 05-07 Audi A4 with some altered panels...Dashboard is identical to the A4 convertable.

Another option from the Vw group is skoda, If you can get over the badge snobbery! Something ugly but good for the kids - skoda roomster, Low cut rear windows so the kids have a better view etc. If you want toys and legroom try a skoda superb estate, 633 litres of bootspace, Satnav, DVD, heated leather (not that you need that round your way!), self parking systems, 170bhp and around 5L/100km (2.0 diesel).........sadly ive just looked up how much they are used in NZ! So forget all ive said

Out of the choices you have given the A4 is probably your best buy, unless you can import a skoda from the uk

I had a quick look at a Skoda Octavia when I decided to by a replacement daily driver for the wife, but after having a Skoda S110L as my first car ~23 years ago I'm scared for life when it comes to that brand, and also as you mentioned, they are butt ugly.

On a side note, what are Europeans cars like for reliability nowadays? Every dealership I have talked to say their cars are the best (as expected), but when asked about failure rates they avoid the question.

ID say the VW group probably are the best reliability on diesels, wouldnt touch their petrols if my life depended on it, too many big faliures!
Ford (though you have oz/nz fords) are the other way round. Avoid anything french Its hard to compare reliability when you dont know the condition of the current cars in new zealand.

Quote from robt :

ID say the VW group probably are the best reliability on diesels, wouldnt touch their petrols if my life depended on it, too many big faliures!
.

I'd say VW is not reliable when it comes to their TDI's. Just as their petrol ones... engine wise Vag unreliable! Forget VAG.. don't let the high interior quality fool you about the whole technical quality of the car. I agree generally about avoiding French though.. but the same I would do with VW/audi.


What about a Volvo D5? In a V70? Great engine.. strong much more reliable than a vag diesel and maybe most beautiful diesel engine sound that's originally produced by a diesel engine. Here at least 2nd hand Volvo D5s have high mileage... dual mass flywheel is perhaps somthing to look after with high mileage.

Not sure if it's easy to get your hands on in NZ.. for pure reliability I would pick a JTD 20v from Alfa/Fiat. Preferably the 5 cyl (20v). A beauty to drive, quick, great sound and superb reliability.

Of what you are currently considering... I would pick the Volvo and drop the rest. Or look further for a Alfa 156 GTA / 159 Sportswagon.

Not sure where the unreliable tdi in vw is dan? Though possibly the newer CR engines arent as good. Ive had the old PD engines and covered 70,000miles in each of them without a single problem!

I'm not sure where the reliable TDI is Of course you always have to be lucky with a car, so it's not garantueed every VW has problems. But looking to reliable figures and what I notice and hear myself, it's really bad.

Some well known technical issues with some tdi's are huge oil consumption especially with the current 2.0 tdi's. The former 2.5 tdi's have seriously bad camshaft wear, and you wouldn't make the 70.000 miles with that for sure (4x camshaft.. stjing tsjing). It was a complete design fault as are common these days with VAG VW ( look at the petrol engines TFSI especially)

All the TDI's from VAG have more trouble than any other brand as far as I have read with their Dual mass flywheels on their diesels. Problem with a dual mass flywheel is that it's hard to feel or possible impossible when its about to die.. and then you have a serious expense. (The problem was the most serious on the Golf 4) Don't forget that it means that probably 50% of the cars from the VAG line-up are Golfs underneath.

Btw.. important note. Avoid at all costs the multitronics from VAG. VAG never get those vario systems to work properly and will break down eventually. Huge expenses.

About Pb tdi's. It is also well know that all the 2 valve engines have the hydro tappet problem. In first not necessarily the biggest issue, but it can result in broken valves, which means good bye engine.

This only because VAG was too ignorant to use the much better system invented by FIAT. CR engines arent comparable imo with the very old pb technology. I think that VW's CR engines are actually better than their old pb's.. but they are nowhere near close to Fiat's CR JTDs when it comes to reliability.

The only VAG diesel engine that doesnt have these well known issues as far as I am aware is the 3.0 TDI. And maybe the most reliable is the 5 cyl 2.5 in the T4.

But if all this fun is not enough for you, buy a 1.9 tdi 105hp from after 2006. They magically push every once in a while a piston rod through your bonnet! Gives a great show on the usually so boring motorways

Avoid at least multitronics, first DSGs, V10 tdis + chip tuned tdis (Especially the Siemens versions)

@ Lap traffic NZ:
For alround best performance on reliability, you still would have to choose Japanse according to the latest 3, 5 and 10 year warranty terms that I know (reliable ones... not bought results, like former German Adac boss who wanted the VW Polo at position 1). Italians are scoring very well on the mechanical parts, engines, gearboxes, chassis etc. But make sure you have the Italian stuff in your car... as Alfa Romeo has GM nonsense in the 159 and Brera (Only the petrol engines are GM) They are unfortunately quite a step back in reliability and much more in character.

Quote from danielroelofs :

This only because VAG was too ignorant to use the much better system invented by FIAT. CR engines arent comparable imo with the very old pb technology. I think that VW's CR engines are actually better than their old pb's.. but they are nowhere near close to Fiat's CR JTDs when it comes to reliability.

And with these two sentances you've ruined your whole argument, The JTD/CDti engine is the worst reliability diesel ive come accross in the UK. Though going by your posts in other places you really have something against the Vw group.....So i wont turn this into an argument.



To the OP...

Really, it all depends what you want it for. Fitting the family in is quite a broad requirement. With the cars your looking at its best to go have a drive of each and narrow the list to one, maybe two models. then look for the best trim/quaility/price you can get.

Quote from robt :

Quote from danielroelofs :

This only because VAG was too ignorant to use the much better system invented by FIAT. CR engines arent comparable imo with the very old pb technology. I think that VW's CR engines are actually better than their old pb's.. but they are nowhere near close to Fiat's CR JTDs when it comes to reliability.

And with these two sentances you've ruined your whole argument, The JTD/CDti engine is the worst reliability diesel ive come accross in the UK. Though going by your posts in other places you really have something against the Vw group.....So i wont turn this into an argument.

Lol... well this is part why I bash vw group. Achterausgang durch technik. Don't see why I ruined my argument, I wrote facts about those engines.. and you can have many more and everybody can find these problems about those engines. Im not trying to hide i dislike VAG, I just tell you why i dislike them.

JTD worst reliable diesel engine in UK? Tell me which figures you use? Because I have some more reliable research results from yes... the UK! From insurance companies in the Uk who tried to give realistic insights in reliability... so please tell me your source..

As i get the feeling now that I am talking to a vag fanboy that just says this to try to hurt me..

Recently btw, nice update about Audi's V10 engine.. guess what? Many issues...(up to completely broken and unusable engine) Translate if you want to know why Quattro Gmbh probably doesnt want to use them anymore Too much work for me... i am lazy
http://www.autoblog.nl/nieuws/audis-v10-gaat-stuk-als-je-niet-hard-genoeg-rijdt-75462

I thought the V10 in the R8 isn't an Audi or VAG engine at all. It's from Lamborginhi. The same engine they were using in the Gallardo and now in its successor the Huracan.

Yes I know that Lambo also belongs to the Volkswagen AG but in fact their engines are not the same.

Right, so after reading the about posts, It looks like the Passat and Audi are out due to being basically the same car and the engines are hand grenades.

Looked at a V70 and I think I prefer the V50 for looks.

Petrol engines are what I have been looking to get as we have a mileage tax here for diesels (can't trust the wife to keep up to date on these, It's hard enough getting her to do Warrant of Fitnesses and Annual Licensing on the current van).

Quote from Timo1992 :

I thought the V10 in the R8 isn't an Audi or VAG engine at all. It's from Lamborginhi. The same engine they were using in the Gallardo and now in its successor the Huracan.

Yes I know that Lambo also belongs to the Volkswagen AG but in fact their engines are not the same.

The block is the same, which was developed from the V10 TDI engine from VW

They are giving excellent results in the Lambos though, many clients with Gallardos over 200k km with no issues at all.

Many clients with over 200k km?

You sure you are talking about Gallardos?

First he said all VAG engines are shit, and then praises an Alfa.

Then I saw he posted it at April 1st.

Says the guy who joined the forum on April 1st how odd.

Yeah I joined LFSForum as a joke. Ha-ha.

Quote from danielroelofs :

Many clients with over 200k km?

You sure you are talking about Gallardos?

Yep, I work for Lambo so I know what I'm talking about

Hmmmmm,

Lambo's are not wildly common here for some reason, But, check out our prices for new Audi's......

I'll be a bit Kiwi here,
http://www.autobase.co.nz/cars-for-sale/Holden/Commodore/Station-Wagon/2264671.htm
http://www.subaru.co.nz/forester
http://www.holden.co.nz/cars/colorado-7
http://www.toyota.co.nz/our-range/hilux/

Because, no fancy euro will tow the boat/jetski, load up the mountainbikes, camping gear and cope with SH1 north of Auckland. The Brynderwyns are really serious bit of road.

You probably need a Remuera Taxi . (Jafa ?)

Stagea.

That is all.

Quote from Klutch :

Stagea.

That is all.

Mates got one with the twin turbo v6, goes well but not what I'm looking for.

Then without taking the proverbial, Merc or Volvo are good and reliable.
BUT, Euro's cost a mint for servicing and parts. Depends where your driving really, round Ak, yup, they are great choices.
Anywhere down here, or further south, Subbi or Holden will cost a lot less in the longer run.

Or, being locally loyal , any car body you choose with this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSCX9IBtCDI
http://www.redbull.com/nz/en/motorsports/stories/1331706095479/the-making-of-radbul-episode-5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUXFP4fSQi8

If I would live over there... should be quite easy to get one of these ?

Pretty much, but already have a ute for work. I came on here to ask for peoples opinions of European station wagons / estates. If I wanted a sporty Asian econobox or Australian meathead mobile I would have gone to a forum that has local knowledge of them.

Maybe I was mistaken thinking the LFS forum being mainly based in Europe was a good place to look for guidance when needing input on European vehicles.

We had a 2007 A4 2.0tdi Estate, kept it for just over 3 years and covered around 40,000 miles in it. The only fault it had in that time was a faulty sensor. It was a great all round car, nice interior, quick enough for what it is and pretty good on fuel too. Go take one for a test drive

Volvo is usualy a safe bet if you look for a car that is just a car. My parents have a V70 2.4D 08, runns good even with race car on trailer behind it, but its just a car i never managed to have fun in it how hard i even tried.

can't speak for Volvos petrol engines or the V50 but a Volvo is a Volvo and is most likley gonna do the job just fine and with some mods the V50 can look rather nice