For the meaning of the BLUE FLAG, please read Art 4.1.2. d) from the FIA International Sporting Code
Veering slightly off topic (sorry) but I've just been to look for blue flag rules for Nascar - as an example of oval racing. Concrete information is difficult to get because unlike F1, they don't (openly) publish the rules. Anyway - from what I can see there's not a blue flag in Nascar - just a blue flag with orange diagonal stripe with a similar (but subtly different) meaning as follows (apparently):
I always knew I didn't understand Nascar racing. Now I'm even less sure.
I always knew I didn't understand Nascar racing. Now I'm even less sure.
I only get annoyed when racers about to go a lap down seem to actively defend their "position".
As long as people don't do this, I don't care if they pull off the road completely (although I'd never expect somebody to), or simply drive their line and allow me to pass them easily. Either way, it's the random actions and senseless defending that causes trouble.
As long as people don't do this, I don't care if they pull off the road completely (although I'd never expect somebody to), or simply drive their line and allow me to pass them easily. Either way, it's the random actions and senseless defending that causes trouble.
The Blue Flag with an Orange Diagonal Stripe
This is the "courtesy" flag or the "move over" flag. It is the only flag that is optional. A driver may, at his discretion, ignore this flag.
It is displayed to a car (or group of cars) to let them know that the leaders are coming up behind them and that should be courteous and move over to let the leaders race.
Again, this flag is optional... However, NASCAR takes a dim view of anyone who repeatedly and without a darn good reason ignores it.
i think anybody who stays in front of a leading group will face the same consequences when being in the same position. so better you let them pass, maybe they will let you pass in a future race when you are in the lead and some of them is in front of you....
This is the "courtesy" flag or the "move over" flag. It is the only flag that is optional. A driver may, at his discretion, ignore this flag.
It is displayed to a car (or group of cars) to let them know that the leaders are coming up behind them and that should be courteous and move over to let the leaders race.
Again, this flag is optional... However, NASCAR takes a dim view of anyone who repeatedly and without a darn good reason ignores it.
i think anybody who stays in front of a leading group will face the same consequences when being in the same position. so better you let them pass, maybe they will let you pass in a future race when you are in the lead and some of them is in front of you....
Totally agree with the original poster, nicely summed up.
One other thing, too - it's related I think. A couple of nights ago, I saw a guy (who frequents the forums, and is quick) say some pretty ridiculous things to someone who was on the lead lap.
He seemed to think that because his lap times were faster, he deserved right-of-way, despite being at least a lap down... He proceeded to get up someone that HE crashed into! I just couldn't believe the arrogance...
If you're a lap down, don't race the leaders - even if you're quicker. If they're nice, and it's not a crucial part of the race for them, most will let you through... but they're under no obligation at all. Unless you can get past cleanly, without affecting their race, back off.
One other thing, too - it's related I think. A couple of nights ago, I saw a guy (who frequents the forums, and is quick) say some pretty ridiculous things to someone who was on the lead lap.
He seemed to think that because his lap times were faster, he deserved right-of-way, despite being at least a lap down... He proceeded to get up someone that HE crashed into! I just couldn't believe the arrogance...
If you're a lap down, don't race the leaders - even if you're quicker. If they're nice, and it's not a crucial part of the race for them, most will let you through... but they're under no obligation at all. Unless you can get past cleanly, without affecting their race, back off.
exactly! racing is not setting pb, slower guys have their right to do their race, i just want to stress the point i bolded, because the most annoying thing is people exiting from pits in the middle of a race just in front or between race leaders and pretend to fight with them and passing them...result -> race screwed! i'm not against people who join in the middle of the race just to warm up, but for those (that are not racing) a blue flag shoud mean "move off the way" imo.
driver skill
if you run up on a slow car make sure you stay close throughout the corner then accelerate and you'll overtake out of the slipstream in time before the next corner. the slow driver doesn't need to do anything at all. this maneuver is obviously more demanding than simply braking later as staying close behind a car throughout a corner ain't that easy. so why blame another driver for ones own shortcomings?
driver conduct
verbally attacking a slower driver is simply uncalled for and unfair.
something else i do notice all the time is that the really fast guys (within 1 sec of wr) rarely lose their temper. it's the midrange wannabees doing average laps of 2-3 sec slower than wr who get all wound up. an observation i do find amusing.
to all those who hate running up on another car i recommend taking a chill pill and working a bit on driving technique. racing includes faster AND slower cars.
if you run up on a slow car make sure you stay close throughout the corner then accelerate and you'll overtake out of the slipstream in time before the next corner. the slow driver doesn't need to do anything at all. this maneuver is obviously more demanding than simply braking later as staying close behind a car throughout a corner ain't that easy. so why blame another driver for ones own shortcomings?
driver conduct
verbally attacking a slower driver is simply uncalled for and unfair.
something else i do notice all the time is that the really fast guys (within 1 sec of wr) rarely lose their temper. it's the midrange wannabees doing average laps of 2-3 sec slower than wr who get all wound up. an observation i do find amusing.
to all those who hate running up on another car i recommend taking a chill pill and working a bit on driving technique. racing includes faster AND slower cars.
its depening on the race situation:
On puplic 5 Laps Sprintraces ofcourse there is a lack of patience when getting stuck behind a backmarker, and this can lead to unexpected passing manouvers at unexpected places.
Doing the same in longdistance races is rather unresponsible.
But naturally i always try to get the fastest lap in a race. I am Racer, what should i do?
On puplic 5 Laps Sprintraces ofcourse there is a lack of patience when getting stuck behind a backmarker, and this can lead to unexpected passing manouvers at unexpected places.
Doing the same in longdistance races is rather unresponsible.
But naturally i always try to get the fastest lap in a race. I am Racer, what should i do?
What should you do? Try and win the race. Not setting the fastest lap. Pretty pointless setting the fastest lap only to crash - the super quick laptime won't be shown in the results anyway if you do that.
Racing is so much more than the fastest lap. Defending, conserving tyres and fuel, knowing when to pit and attack etc. If all you do is drive flatout the entire race, you're missing a big part of Racing.
I do very much agree with you. I have always felt that the greater the obstacles, the more severe the adversities, the greater the struggle.. through these you achieve the greater the victory. Whether it's a difficult chicane or a challenging opponent.
Ask yourself, which do you consider the better race: Where Schumacher wins by a full lap, or when he's head-to-head with Alonso down to the line? Which is the greater victory?
The one where Räikkonen takes em both down on the last bend of the race
I understand and agree with this statement 100%.
Having said that, often the quality of driving from the back marker is that poor in LFS, it's sometimes impossible to get past safely. Hence why more times than not, the quicker racers publically get annoyed with these people.
Also, as much as I appreciate what you are trying to get at, we can't compare LFS races to professional races we see on the telly. We can strive for realism, but we will never replicate the way we would react if racing in real life.
Therefore to ask and expect people who don't take the game as seriously as some of us to do this, isn't going to happen.
if the first goal is to finish the race and the second goal to win it then there won't be so many useless and brainless now-or-never maneuvers and increasingly fair driving which definitely the majority of drivers will enjoy more.
just look at league races. if that works during 1-3 hour races why should it be different during a 5-10 lap race?
just look at league races. if that works during 1-3 hour races why should it be different during a 5-10 lap race?
Well said BlueSkunk. I don't think what you describe will happen, but I'd like to live in a world where it did.
I created this topic a long time ago in order to help members take a close look at why the blue flag rules cause confusion sometimes.
When overtaking and blue flag rules are used in conjunction with each other (after all, the majority of Blue Flag instances will include overtaking) the picture is quite clear.
There are also two main types of fblue flag, static and waved. A static or held blue flag indicates that a faster car is approaching from behind, it isn't always a situation of being lapped either, the blue flag can be shown to a slow car even if it is fighting for position on the same lap as the approaching car (though these cases are not the norm). A waved blue flag requires action on the part of the slower car but, as outlined in the sporting code, the car does not need to go off the racing line, move over, or stop. "Yielding" means simply to allow the faster car to get past you and this should be done in a safe manner, in a safe place at the discretion of the car being overtaken. Failing to act after being shown three waved blue flags may result in a penalty.
A person who spams "MOVE OVER BLUE FLAG!!" etc, should be ignored, they don't understand the rules of racing. A server that requires you to Shift+S when you are slower or when you spin or crash should be avoided if you are looking for anything like a real race experience online.
When overtaking and blue flag rules are used in conjunction with each other (after all, the majority of Blue Flag instances will include overtaking) the picture is quite clear.
There are also two main types of fblue flag, static and waved. A static or held blue flag indicates that a faster car is approaching from behind, it isn't always a situation of being lapped either, the blue flag can be shown to a slow car even if it is fighting for position on the same lap as the approaching car (though these cases are not the norm). A waved blue flag requires action on the part of the slower car but, as outlined in the sporting code, the car does not need to go off the racing line, move over, or stop. "Yielding" means simply to allow the faster car to get past you and this should be done in a safe manner, in a safe place at the discretion of the car being overtaken. Failing to act after being shown three waved blue flags may result in a penalty.
A person who spams "MOVE OVER BLUE FLAG!!" etc, should be ignored, they don't understand the rules of racing. A server that requires you to Shift+S when you are slower or when you spin or crash should be avoided if you are looking for anything like a real race experience online.
Oooh! That puts my link to shame a bit Yours is what I'd call definitive!
The blue flag discussion is one that will always re-surface, I suspect. Over time, we all get frustrated at how nobody else around (or behind) us seems to understand the rule as well as we do! Eventually it bubbles back to the surface, and we all say what we've said before, but with new vigour
Yours is what I'd call definitive!The blue flag discussion is one that will always re-surface, I suspect. Over time, we all get frustrated at how nobody else around (or behind) us seems to understand the rule as well as we do! Eventually it bubbles back to the surface, and we all say what we've said before, but with new vigour
Glory lies in the attempt to reach one's goal and not in reaching it. - M. Gandhi
I agree with that too many people think that racing is about PBs on laps and then get wound up or crappy if you "ruin their fast lap". How dare you be in front of them and hold them up.
What racing means also needs to be cleared up. Racing is about ONE THING and one thing only........Who completes the distance/laps first.
How fast you are, corner speeds, lap times and split times MEAN NOTHING in a race. All that matters is what position you finish in.
You might have X seconds a lap on me but unless you stay on the track YOU FAIL. If the car in front has position but is slower you have to slow until you can find the place to pass.
To many "fast" drivers make this mistake and then kick off when they smash into the person in front because "they were too slow in the corner blah blah blah".
The blue flag is not the only issue at work here and this one needs to be dealt with as well.
What racing means also needs to be cleared up. Racing is about ONE THING and one thing only........Who completes the distance/laps first.
How fast you are, corner speeds, lap times and split times MEAN NOTHING in a race. All that matters is what position you finish in.
You might have X seconds a lap on me but unless you stay on the track YOU FAIL. If the car in front has position but is slower you have to slow until you can find the place to pass.
To many "fast" drivers make this mistake and then kick off when they smash into the person in front because "they were too slow in the corner blah blah blah".
The blue flag is not the only issue at work here and this one needs to be dealt with as well.
Many people confuse racing with speed (IRL as well), but they don't understand the true nature of racing. It's about control... The one being able to control his car the most, wins... You can be lightyears faster, if you're not able to bring the car round the next turn and crash, you're out... Simple as that...
sometimes it can be difficult to decide how to behave...
e.g. take a slightly longer race with mandatory pitstop or pitstops required because of the distance. if i go into pits first, maybe i have little damage aswell so the stop lasts longer, it is possible to be lapped while in pits or just after leaving pits. now the car that is passing me is one lap ahead, so i get a blue flag, but at the same time i´m competing against him, because i know that he must pit, too. how should one react in this kind of situation?
peace mo
e.g. take a slightly longer race with mandatory pitstop or pitstops required because of the distance. if i go into pits first, maybe i have little damage aswell so the stop lasts longer, it is possible to be lapped while in pits or just after leaving pits. now the car that is passing me is one lap ahead, so i get a blue flag, but at the same time i´m competing against him, because i know that he must pit, too. how should one react in this kind of situation?
peace mo
but as there is no system in lfs that automatically gives penaulties for ignoring 3 waved blue flags, it sometimes is hard to enforce.
maybe this post should be in the improovements thread (or maybe there's one already
)When you are racing for position, the blue flag message is basically an error. If you're racing the actual car that's giving you the flag, there should definitely not be a blue flag. If you're racing within a pack of backmarkers and you're all being caught by the leader it gets more complicated as you should not obstruct the leader (on purpose) but still fight the cars you're racing for position.
Basically there's no blue flag if you're still racing for position.
That is a question I had? What to do when you are racing for position for, say, 8th place but are being lapped by the leader?
I watched a Rolex Grand Am race last year where two GT cars were battling for the lead with about 2-4 laps left. A group of faster DP cars came up from behind but could not pass the GT cars (which were NOT letting the DP cars through). IIRC, the DP cars were 3rd and 4th and the holdup allowed the 5th place DP car to get into the mix and altered the finishing order of the DP class. Slightly different, but similar.
Nothing I've come across in MSA or FIA rules have stated that the meaning of the blue flag changes when you are in a battle for position. F1 drivers are penalised if they pass 3 blue flags no matter what.
Best thing you can do in that situation is let the quick guy through in a corner and then use him to help you pass the car in front.
Best thing you can do in that situation is let the quick guy through in a corner and then use him to help you pass the car in front.
racing versus hotlapping and the blue flag
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