If Ukraine falls... we are next on the list. Just because history is not what people inside Kreml wanted... thus creating propaganda traps, ultimately leading into conflict.

Not the problem with Russian people, but if this kind of shit falls and somehow works into those people, same thing happens... same stuff, same attributes, same lies and actions... different country and much smaller one.

I strongly believe not many will buy it, because we have kept our history very open. But if that loses meaning... nothing matters.

The issue is that Finland is seen as nazism and nazi actions during Winter War between Finland and USSR back then...

...and also because we had technical alliance between us and Nazis. We had no other choice in terms of keeping our independency. We could resist pretty far, but defeat was inevitable without any negotiations.

Ugh...

So, the title really should be: What is happening in Kreml?



This is just madness... I do not need really repeat my words, but I shall this one more time: Who is really pulling the strings?

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

If Ukraine falls... we are next on the list. Just because history is not what people inside Kreml wanted... thus creating propaganda traps, ultimately leading into conflict.

Not the problem with Russian people, but if this kind of shit falls and somehow works into those people, same thing happens... same stuff, same attributes, same lies and actions... different country and much smaller one.

I strongly believe not many will buy it, because we have kept our history very open. But if that loses meaning... nothing matters.

The issue is that Finland is seen as nazism and nazi actions during Winter War between Finland and USSR back then...

...and also because we had technical alliance between us and Nazis. We had no other choice in terms of keeping our independency. We could resist pretty far, but defeat was inevitable without any negotiations.

Ugh...

So, the title really should be: What is happening in Kreml?



This is just madness... I do not need really repeat my words, but I shall this one more time: Who is really pulling the strings?

For them to attack over something that happend over 80 years ago would be pushing things to far and the world would have to act, regardless of the ramifications.
I do think that if Putin did succeede in taking Ukraine, he would then move on to try and rebuild the Russian Empire, i also believe that the way NATO responded when we got threatened with NUKES, was a test to see how we will react in the future.

Oh man...

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

Oh man...

Putin at 70 years old, knows that it won't be many more years that he has to leave a legacy, straight after taking over power from yeltsin he made it clear that it hurt him when the USSR ceased to exist. Of cause he wants to be remembered as something great and this is just one way he can do it.

Destroying the world by causing WW3, wouldn't leave that many alive to remember any legacy of his.

Maybe he would stop if he took Ukraine, but i doubt it. Remember what happened with Chechnya upon coming into power, maybe he wants to go out the same way he went in.

Quote from bishtop :

Of cause he wants to be remembered as something great and this is just one way he can do it.

He's already in the list besides names like Hitler,Stalin and other mass murderers.

Quote from Eclipsed :

He's already in the list besides names like Hitler,Stalin and other mass murderers.

Very true Hes know saying that the first phase of the Ukrainian war is over and now focus is on the complete Liberation of donbas, shows how warped his mind is, also makes it sound like the objective's changed slightly but could be a distraction of some sort

Its quite possible that once he has taken over parts of Ukraine, he will then pull his forces back and try and keep the places he has took in the hope that Ukraine won't try and take them back in the hope of peace.

Quote from Eclipsed :

He's already in the list besides names like Hitler,Stalin and other mass murderers.

This

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

This

Agree with you, but remember in his mind it would be a twisted reality. Putin has never been bothered about what the outside world thinks of him, by controlling all information and news within Russia he is trying to make himself out to be some sort of saviour and liberator.

I myself would say that he would believe that the only true immortality is to never be forgotten in history. Two ways of doing this is either doing something good or something evil. He chose the latter

It's not reality... it's fantasy.

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

It's not reality... it's fantasy.

A twisted reality in ones mind is a fantasy, facts become twisted out of any semblance to reality making it into fantasy.

Alright then. Tell me how this ends.

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

Alright then. Tell me how this ends.

With the latest statement being made by Sergey Rudskoy - saying the "first stage" of what President Vladimir Putin calls Russia's "special military operation" has been mostly accomplished and that Russian forces will now concentrate on "the complete liberation of the Donbas".

Id reckon that Putin now knows that the complete takeover of Ukraine is not going to be possible due to the amount of time already spent trying and the loses of his army.

Its been over a month and they've made very little progress across Ukraine. Putin will never admit defeat, as it will make him seem weak to those around him.

I believe he will now change his plans and say that what he as called the "Liberation" of Donbas is/was his goal.

I personally believe that his plan will be to slowly take over places like Donbas which will be the same as extending the border of Russia more inland across Ukraine.

He will/has install a pro-russian mayor/office in Donbas and falsely claim its people had been happy to have been "liberated", the same as he had in the past.

I could be totally wrong, this is just how i am reading the situation, its near to impossible to guess what is going on in Putins mind.

What will have shook Putin is that the War has made him seem weaker, and shown that Ukraine is a very strong and determined force.

Ukraine and its people have a lot to admired, with their strength and bravery shown.

Slava Ukraini !

Quote from bishtop :

I could be totally wrong,

not could be, assumptions are the mother of all ****ups. The goal was never stated to conquer. The Twitter keyboard warriors made that out of it.

Quote from bishtop :

Slava Ukraini !

Heil Hitler? Just another fascist greeting.

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

Alright then. Tell me how this ends.

This ALL ends when young poor people stop going to wars created by old rich people for profit. We need to apply some of Napoleon's French solution to modern politics. If sending people to war, the leader should be made to lead, literally.

Nah


---->

Quote from cargame.nl :

not could be, assumptions are the mother of all ****ups. The goal was never stated to conquer. The Twitter keyboard warriors made that out of it.



Heil Hitler? Just another fascist greeting.

Oh i see like they hadn't started to do with Crimea in 2014, and now in Melitopol, after arresting Ivan Fedorov (Elected Mayor) and installing there own Pro-Russian mayor Galina Danilchenko.

How does saying "Slava Ukraini" relate to "Heil Hitler" ?

Russia is trying to conquer Ukraine , conquering defintion - to overcome and take control of (a place or people) by military force.

So yes Slava Ukraini or Glory to Ukraine, in defending their country from Putins Invasion.

Do you think its a legitimate war ?

Plus never ever read anything on Twitter, the same as i wouldn't read any news on any government or state owned media sources.

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

Alright then. Tell me how this ends.

Sorry for this anxiogenic message, but it will end very badly, without the shadow of a doubt. A third world war, the total collapse of Putin Russia and / or decades of crises, wars, famines and various shortages that will lead to a new world order even more authoritarian and more violent.

I specify that none of these scenarios suits me. But I do not see others. Putin has already been far too far. Even if he left Ukraine entirely (and he will not do it), the harm is made. And nothing will be able to improve as long as he runs Russia. We are already at a situation of no return. Nuclear war is no longer a taboo for any of the parties. Europe and the rest of the world buy weapons again ...

The only plan seems to be to wait for the Putin system to collapse from itself, from the inside. But Putin is not at his first war or his first mass crimes.

The worst option is to examine a new genocide at the gates of NATO and do nothing. The inaction of the West has strengthened Putin. As she had allowed Nazi Germany to prosper. NATO should have given a strong ultimatum at the beginning of the invasion. But the concept of nuclear deterrence dissuaded us (again) to save people.

The time has come to pay at the high price for all our mistakes. I fear it. I hope (if not what?) That this major crisis (which is not a simple problem between Russia and Ukraine, but the end of the current geopolitics) forces us to rethink a world capable of resisting tomorrow's challenges .

@ kahn62
I think it's better not to borrow more in Napoleon.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

Sorry for this anxiogenic message, but it will end very badly, without the shadow of a doubt. A third world war, the total collapse of Putin Russia and / or decades of crises, wars, famines and various shortages that will lead to a new world order even more authoritarian and more violent.

I fear you may well be right. What is happening in Ukraine cannot be allowed, and yet the West has no idea how to prevent it.

There are fundamental and core incompatibilities in understanding how the world works, between the West and Russia. The most glaring of these is in the sanctions against Russia. Our Western governments think that hurting the Russian oligarchs' bank accounts will encourage them to pressure Putin. This is because, in the West, corporate interests control the direction of politicians through lobbying and corruption.

But the Russian oligarchs are in the positions they are in because they obey Putin, not the other way around. ALL the Russian people, including the oligarchs, could agree with the West about Putin and about Ukraine and it will make NOT ONE IOTA of difference, because Putin disagrees and it is Putin who calls ALL the shots.

Whether engineered or not, we are in the early stages of The Great Reset. I once thought this was a conspiracy theory but it makes no difference now because we're in it. "You will own nothing, and you will be happy." Well, I'm not happy.

Quote from SamH :

There are fundamental and core incompatibilities in understanding how the world works, between the West and Russia. The most glaring of these is in the sanctions against Russia. Our Western governments think that hurting the Russian oligarchs' bank accounts will encourage them to pressure Putin. This is because, in the West, corporate interests control the direction of politicians through lobbying and corruption.

But the Russian oligarchs are in the positions they are in because they obey Putin, not the other way around. ALL the Russian people, including the oligarchs, could agree with the West about Putin and about Ukraine and it will make NOT ONE IOTA of difference, because Putin disagrees and it is Putin who calls ALL the shots.

It's done with the intention of stopping the oligarchs being able to fund anything towards the War effort in ukraine(due to all being close friends of Putin), its insane how rich some of them are , the intention of the sanctions on Russia's economy is the same thing, so purchases of new equipment would eventually be harder(if originally purchased from UN countries.

Agree with you regarding that its only Putins voice that matters, it is a shame that sanctions that make life harder for the Russian people, will not alter Putins actions.

Quote from bishtop :

How does saying "Slava Ukraini" relate to "Heil Hitler" ?

First hit on Google, read about it before you start to copy someone elses narrative

Quote from bishtop :

the same as i wouldn't read any news on any government or state owned media sources.

agreed, watch someone reporting who is actually there; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LQSYmda0Sc just 9 minutes.

I was there myself exactly a year ago, driving through complete Ukraine with my own car. Experienced sadly enough enough "atmosphere". Especially in the south and quite weird in the northeast. I don't know what happened in the Chernihiv area (historically speaking) but its not 'normal' how people interact there. I wouldn't trust some people from the Ukraine, let alone call it family (idiotic prime minister said this). It's quite ridicilous that a majority of western people are all of a sudden pro Ukraine while most didn't know where it was located in the years before. Let alone know anything of the culture, history and especially what happened from 2014 onwards.

I have another little thing to think about;



'Nuff said.

Quote from cargame.nl :

First hit on Google, read about it before you start to copy someone elses narrative



agreed, watch someone reporting who is actually there; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LQSYmda0Sc just 9 minutes.

I was there myself exactly a year ago, driving through complete Ukraine with my own car. Experienced sadly enough enough "atmosphere". Especially in the south and quite weird in the northeast. I don't know what happened in the Chernihiv area (historically speaking) but its not 'normal' how people interact there. I wouldn't trust some people from the Ukraine, let alone call it family (idiotic prime minister said this). It's quite ridicilous that a majority of western people are all of a sudden pro Ukraine while most didn't know where it was located in the years before. Let alone know anything of the culture, history and especially what happened from 2014 onwards.

I have another little thing to think about;



'Nuff said.

First, the only similarity is that its a salute. And that it was once used by one Nazi allied Stepan Banderas in 1941, considering the phrase originated in a poem Taras Shevchenko in the year 1846, it cannot in any shape or form be likened to Heil Hitler. Thats obvious.

Regarding your video from Mariupol, i believe it could be true, as we know the Asov Battalion had been sent to maripol, and this should be investigated as a war crime.

The Asov battalion is a volunteer battalion and not an offical member of the Ukrainian Forces. The Emblem you posted is from the Asov Battalion, so you have told us nothing new.

Id go as far as to say as many others have said, that putin has become like Hitler.

You're opinion is that when you went to Ukraine, things didn't seem right, yet the Ukrainian citizens have taken up arms against the invaders and doing an excellent job.

You assume that you're the only person that travels the world and/or does not know geography. Thats comical

If things in Ukraine were the way that Putin had said and that you're portraying it to be, then like Putin had predicted, they would've been welcomed with open arms by its people.

Many Russian people have stated that they get fed lies from Putin, even one had said so within this topic of the forum.

Quote from bishtop :

The Asov battalion is a volunteer battalion and not an offical member of the Ukrainian Forces.

I think that's actually incorrect. My understanding is that the battalion has been integrated into the military and, just as concerning, policing forces in those regions, for some time.

Quote from cargame.nl :

It's quite ridicilous that a majority of western people are all of a sudden pro Ukraine while most didn't know where it was located in the years before. Let alone know anything of the culture, history and especially what happened from 2014 onwards.

This is normal, standard issue behaviour in the form of tribalism, but you are right of course. Today we are shockingly quick - more than we have been for a very long time - to hyper-polarise.

In the UK, we hyper-polarised over Brexit. In the US, the hyper-polarisation was over Trump. Even the identitarians are hyper-polarising between the 3rd-wave feminists and the trans lobby. We are now entirely comfortable with disassociation, excommunication, divestment and cancellation on a grand scale anyone, or any entity, that deviates from our chosen narrative. This is the new normal, and it's catastrophic in every sense.

I'm pretty sure you've gathered this but I feel the need to emphasise it again: I am not pro-Ukraine, nor pro-Russia, I am anti-war.

But yes, there are without question enormous issues with the integration of Azov into the military and police in Ukraine. This integration would be inconceivable in a post-WWII EU country and it is difficult for us to comprehend that this egregious dynamic could form in a modern country. But these are not modern countries with progressive ideals, and with the collapse of the USSR the political void that needed to be filled defaulted to that of 1945 (the preceding regimes/ideologies). The regression began with the Serbia/Bosnia/Yugoslav wars starting in the early 90s and continues now in Ukraine.

Conflict and war had become alien to us in the West, but with the hyper-polarisation and tribalism that we're apparently willing to embrace now, there is a grave risk of it tipping out of "fighting talk" and into actual conflict, particularly in - but not necessarily limited to - the US. It's evident in the rapid uptake of the "I stand with Ukraine" mantra which is so much more conflict-friendly than "I stand against war".

Yeah they had been turned into a national guard(Still a volunteer group) and not made members of the Ukrainian armed forces.

While any crimes by the battalion should be dealt with in the same that putins crimes should be(war crime), the video posted by Cargame is not an independent media source like id previously mentioned. He is embeded with Russian Forces and is known to be a Pro-Russian Media reporter/Vlogger, not exactly an unbiased view.

Its basically just a man saying they found something, unless they done the correct thing to do and photographed and collected evidence.

Quote from bishtop :

Yeah they had been turned into a national guard(Still a volunteer group) and not made members of the Ukrainian armed forces.

Right. Now, go read up on the "Braunhemden". Compare and contrast.