I have a suggestion, but the devs do not have to do anything. It is a suggestion that more people race the FZ5, because it is a really great car!

How about.....no?

If there was a server running lx6, fz5 and rac i would almost always go for lx6.

u like it? drive it!
lol whats the point?
the FZ5 is a heavy car bit slippery, and thats why it isnt really used much.
im myself use it mostly when im new to a track (im still new to the most aston tracks ) to drive around and explore the track, but from the road cars its 1 of the "worst" cars to race with.

I prefer the FZ5 rather then the RAC, the LX6 is nice though. I don't like the RAC though, probaly because I haven't gotten a good grasp on it.

I generally love the slippy street cars, but that arse heavy thing is horrible. lx6 all the way for me.

I think I'm in the same camp there. The FZ5 is nice but the LX6 owns it in terms of agility, and it's sexier

LX6 is better - but on tracks like WE1 i use the FZ5 simply because the LX6 keeps on stepping out

the fz50 is a great car (my preferred rallycross car) but the lx6 is faster on almost every track.

imho, the fz50 should have some more hp rather than that traction control illepall

Heh, I nearly started a FZ50 only sever last night. I figured nobody would join though (as is usual for my server), so since I was tired I just went to bed.

FZ25, hmmm.....

A Porsche Carrera 2S lookalike. It's arse heavy and its tires aren't quite up to scratch, considering its power and weight. Its cornering speeds aren't THAT much better than the supposedly "inferior" TBO cars.

Honestly, I'll pick the RA over the the FZ25. All the benefits of rear weight bias without the pendulum nature. MR layout offers far superior turn in and agility, something a tail heavy hammer such as the FZ25 can't offer.

The reasons that RL new rear-engined Porsches handle so well are manyfold, but the main reasons include excellent rear multilink suspension (dynamic toe which toes in on compression and toes out on extension, something LFS doesn't quite simulate yet), decades of suspension tuning experience, PSM (Porsch Stability Management), stickier than normal tires, etc.

IMO the FZ5 is an under rated car, heck I even made a league for both that and the RAC.

Needless to say the uptake wasnt great, it seems people prefer to use cars that arent that challenging to drive quickly.

Dan,

I love the FZ5. It's very well balanced compared to the RAC, with the strenght on the straight. It's weight balance is a challange and the driver needs to learn how to effectively use it. There is enough weight at the rear to allow trail-braking without loosing rear grip and turn exit is a dream (when done well, that is ).
Sure, high-speed cornering isn't the FZ5's trademark but it's straight-line speed is so incredible compared to the RAC that you're gonna be smiling anyway when blasting past a poor RAC at over 30km/h speed difference.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that LX6 and RAC/FZ5 are in the same class. The LX6 is just a lot too light-weighted to drive together with the other two. It's impossible for an FZ5 driver to keep a safe margin to LX6s because the LX6 is too agile. The FZ5 driver just can't react to the fast changes of the LX6's line. On the other hand the straight line speed difference is immense and very dangerous on high-speed tracks. These cars just can't be driven together safely.
So it's rather RAC or FZ5. The LX6 doesn't match this class.

I'm waiting for the Road Race Winter Cup @ Danowat.

Vain

I love the FZ5, hate the RAC and not comfortable in a LX6

RAC owns. It is just a great car but it takes time to get used to it. Of course FZ50 is better when you want to drift. I'd take RAC over FZ50 even if the laptimes show it is a bit slower but imho it is more predictable than the FZ50.

Quote from Vain :

I love the FZ5. It's very well balanced compared to the RAC, with the strenght on the straight. It's weight balance is a challange and the driver needs to learn how to effectively use it. There is enough weight at the rear to allow trail-braking without loosing rear grip and turn exit is a dream (when done well, that is ).
Sure, high-speed cornering isn't the FZ5's trademark but it's straight-line speed is so incredible compared to the RAC that you're gonna be smiling anyway when blasting past a poor RAC at over 30km/h speed difference.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that LX6 and RAC/FZ5 are in the same class. The LX6 is just a lot too light-weighted to drive together with the other two. It's impossible for an FZ5 driver to keep a safe margin to LX6s because the LX6 is too agile. The FZ5 driver just can't react to the fast changes of the LX6's line. On the other hand the straight line speed difference is immense and very dangerous on high-speed tracks. These cars just can't be driven together safely.
So it's rather RAC or FZ5. The LX6 doesn't match this class.

I'm waiting for the Road Race Winter Cup @ Danowat.

Vain

Well balanced? I still have a hard time believing that a well tuned MR car with good double wishbone suspension all round has WORSE balance than a fundamentally imbalanced car with a Mcpherson strut front. Nothing personal, Vain, but maybe your RA could use a bit more tweaking.

The RA has its major masses towards its center, thus enjoys the lowest polar moment of inertia of all LFS cars. There's no way a rear engined car could posses more agility than it. BTW, top speed difference isn't THAT much of an issue on most tracks (except the Oval). The WR times for both a cars are remarkably close for the 2 of them on ALL non-oval courses, considering their immense power and weight differences.

IRL, Porsches are excellent cornering ability, especially the latest top end versions of the 911 (Turbo/Turbo S, GT2 and Gt3). Of course, they have the benefit of an excellent rear multilink setup, something the FZ25 does not have(excellent dynamic toe characteristics) and LFS doesn't simulate YET. I bet the developers are working to plug this missing component of their suspension simulation right now.

That said, setting up and driving the FZ5 does provide a unique experience. I do use it sometime just to play around with its pendulum rear. And yes, trail braking with the FZ5 is massive fun. It's the only way to turn it in with complete control and precision. Just remember to control the tail swing adequately to not turn it to a runaway pendulum. Once enough weight and thus grip is transfered to the heavy back end, enjoy the classic rear-engined exit raction. In fact, the new TC feature is more of a safety blanket than a real necessity, even for a keyboarder. Personally, I don't use it at all. It just slows down your starts and corner exits.

And although the RA and FZ5 make for epic circuit battles, the LX6 should be left out of this discussion. It's a Lotus 7 skeleton car, not a proper roadable sports car.

I didn't quite get what you meant with tweaking "my RA".
I didn't say anything about the RAC's handling. Only that the RAC has a lower topspeed.

Vain

well you DID say that it's very well balanced compared to the rac .

@jamexing: what' s going on with that fz25 talk? a half fz50? some 1337speak?

Quote from Vain :

"It's very well balanced compared to the RAC"
Vain

That's what I was talking about. And yes, the FZ5 is way superior on the straights thanks to that beautiful torque/power band from its NA 6-cylinder boxer engine.

Just an unintentional error, Fetzo.

And in what way would you object to that statement?

Vain

I believe I shouldn't need to repeat myself. I stress that I have nothing personal against you, but please read and fully comprehend my post about the FZ50 and the RA, with your even earlier post used as the quote. Besides, 40/60 F/R mass balance is definitely better balanced than the 37/63 of the FZ50 which, incidentally, is almost identical to RL 911s. Granted, the FZ50 does react more slowly and thus just a bit more forgiving, unless you've managed to let the pendulum rear swing out of control. IRL, such rear-engined cars required decades of development to get the most out of a fundamentally imbalanced car. Please don't mistake the RA's low moment of inertia and thus twitchier nature as a fundamental imbalance.

I didn't take anything personal. I was just curious and trying to understand what point you were trying to make. I'm still not sure what you want to say beside stating facts about RL cars.

Ah, I just found a lightbulp floating over my head:
Did you read the word balanced in the context of mass-distribution?
I was speaking about balanced in regards of performance and laptimes.

Vain

I like the FZ5, would like to see more servers using it. i dont really dislike any car in LFS, there are just some i need more practise at.

The one thing that always catches me out with the FZ5 is how long it takes the damn thing to stop. Back straight on BLGP: start braking at 250m, "hmm this isnt working"....mash down harder yelling "Stoooooooooppppp!!!!"

I was actually talking of balance in the sense of over/understeer characteristics overall throughout all possible dynamic situations in a well driven race. Yes, mass balance is one important determinant for a car's overall balance.

Another reason for fundamentally superior balance of he RA is the double wishbone suspension at the front. If you turn on the suspension view in the setup sreen, you'll discover that the RA's front suspension has far better camber recovery than the FZ50's Mcpherson strut setup. Better camber recovery leads to more optimal tire contact angles and thus better overall front grip. Just one reason why RA turns in better than the FZ50.

The RA also has less moment of inertia, thus responds faster to weight corrections for over/understeer conditions. The FZ50 turns like a pendulum. It's harder to get it to turn since more rotational force is required to get it to turn it at a desired rate. But once it starts to turn, it requires just a lot of extra rotational force to eliminate the built up rotational momentum. Although the FZ50's heavy rear does provide massive corner exit traction, but the RA has enough rear weight and tire grip to not suffer from serious traction issues. Currently, it's just hampered by a ridiculously laggy turbo.

As for laptimes, the RA and FZ50 make an interesting pair. The RA is faster around curvy sections, but the FZ50 compensates with superior straight line performance. Any circuit that stresses cornering over outright straightline speed favours the RA and vice-versa, as reflected by the WR times. Interesting racing indeed.

That's the same thing like you must eat something you don't like(FZ5 (however I like it ;-)))...
And after a while you find it disgusting(LFS or FZ5)
so it only would be bad.

The reason i like the FZ5 is because of the pure straight line speed. It helps me catch up when people pass you.