I wish you sweet wet dreams about it guys and girls
I wish you sweet wet dreams about it guys and girls
Goo posted couple videos and a new pic to the RSC thread.
n.b. Media Player Classic didn't seem to know what to do with the videos, use VLC or something instead.
n.b. Media Player Classic didn't seem to know what to do with the videos, use VLC or something instead.
These pictures posted by Goo on RSC look very promising.
The G25 FFB Transmission uses precision ball bearings: a snap ring version of the DFP "after bearing" and a smaller race version of the MOMO Force transmission (50 mm ID, 72 mm OD) as the "forward bearing" (similar layout to MOMO Force). The main shaft is glass filled Nylon 66 for very high strength with the "bull gear" integrated into the shaft for superior concentricity. Two, high torque, DC motors operate through a 16:1 reduction with a anti-backlash gear system providing direct drive to the motor mounted high resolution optical encoder. This approach means that any movement of the wheel results in movement of the optical encoder for exact input response. Further benefits of the two motor transmission are much lower interia, lower pitch line velocity of the gears for greatly reduced noise, and increased frequency response due to minimized FFB gear backlash (single reduction compared to double reduction). Number of motors, motor torque, and gear ratio were chosen to provide the same torque at the wheel rim as DFP (though it feels like more due to lower system losses). This design approach produces a much lighter feel and a quicker response than a standard gear based double reduction transmission. The wheel uses 3.0 mm thick stainless steel spokes providing a very rigid driving experience, and is hand wrapped with real leather. The hub mounted Paddle Shifters are constructed from 2.0 mm thick SS and operate lever arm switches in the hub (rotate with the wheel). Total rotation is 900 degrees "lock to lock" using a similar stop system as DFP, but without the mechanical 200 degree sliding stop.
The pedals are constructed from plated CRS (cold rolled steel) and stainless steel: 2.2 mm CRS for the arms and frame, 3.0 mm SS for the pedal faces. Shoulder bolts with 8.00 mm diameters, and heavy duty plastic bushings provide a very high tolerance and rigid feel. The potentimeters are gear'ed up, using anti-backlash springs, to produce 55 degrees of potentiometer rotation from 20 degrees of input resulting in very smooth and very fine control. The stops are "metal to metal" to eliminate calibration destroying flex in the system. The pedal arms are connected to the back of the frame, once again, through 8.00 mm dia shoulder bolts, with a piston and cylinder arrangment. Springs of three different rates are enclosed inside these pistons; about twice the strength of DFP's pedal spring for the throttle, very strong for brake and firm for the clutch. These rates were finalized after many interations and many LFS laps! Each frame includes 2 tapped (M6X1 bolts) holes for mounting the pedal set to a simiulator structure, but also includes the patented "carpet lock" grip system used on DFP's pedal set.
The Shifter is a six speed, short throw, with locked out reverse. It is convertable to a standard sequencial to support non-gated shifter games. It is constructed from heat treated CRS, and high strength Delrin engineering plastic. The mechansim is based on potentiometers, not switches, to determine shifter position. It has a spring loaded ball bearing detent that holds it in each gear, and is spring loaded to neutral when not in gear. The shaft is 10.0 mm diameter steel with a alignment flat machined into the top to key the leather shifter knob which is held on with a machine screw. The boot is also made from real leather. The Shifter uses TWO clamps made from steel bolts and glass filled nylon jaws for table attachment and retention. The knob tops have a "spring loaded, push down and rotate to set" feature to prevent them from interfering with the users knuckles while shifting. A center "ANTI-TIP" arm and screw are included to prevent tipping when the shifter is pulled toward the user. It is not a clamp, and should not be over tightened during use. Two tapped (M6X1) brackets allow the Shifter to be mounted onto a similuator frame if desired. It also contains a symetric control panel allowing the Shifter to be mounted on the left or the right side of the user.
Here is the Movie!
http://rapidshare.de/files/309 ... ch_fuer_nen_LFS_PG__..AVI
http://rapidshare.de/files/309 ... ch_fuer_nen_LFS_PG__..AVI
Ok had a bit of fun with g25 so hers my thoughts so far..... bloody marvelous
You have to be aware that I don’t get the chance to race too much these days so im a bit rusty driving. My former wheel was the DFP.
Construction: The whole package oozes quality
Wheel: Rock solid mounting; zero play in the wheel and the dead spot from the DFP has gone. Very quiet with minimal notchiness from the gearing inside, in fact I don’t really notice it. Wheel size is way better (diameter and thickness) with the leather giving a very nice feel. Buttons are very nicely placed. I come onto the lack of buttons question when describing the gearshift. Paddles on the back are very nice and I especially like the extended ears, which makes it easier to grab a gear when whipping the wheel about.
FF: Incredibly smooth with none of the jerkiness I found with the DFP. I have had to increase the FF up to 65% in LFS and 100% inRBR (compared to 50/70 ish) which is not to say the ff is weaker but more controlled and I think much less lag. The feel you get when the cars slide about makes the whole experience much more involving with the wheel behaving as it would in a normal car.
Pedals: I refuse to takes these apart...for now anyways. I can only assume that the red piston shape is a shroud for the springs, but then again that’s purely speculation. The accelerator has good spring strength and brake and clutch have heavy settings so you really have to stomp on the brakes now. The pedal travel is much longer which I am finding is making my driving smoother. You can heal and toe pretty easily for the downshift. I have resorted to my old climbing stickies as the pedal effort was giving me sore feet (used to use socks) and it makes the heal and toe easier. Probably due to the larger footprint/weight the pedals have not moved since I put them in place.
Gear stick/console: Good solid mounting. gear throw through the gates is swift and sure. There is a loudish click from the switches when you select a gear, but again I have gotten used to it pretty quickly and with earphones on it just give you a faintly audible/tactile notification that you have a gear. The stick stays in the gear position firmly. I have not tried it in sequential mode, and probably wont, as it is too much fun being able to jump from 6th to 2nd for hairpins etc. The lack off switches on the wheel has not really been a concern as when you are actually setup the switches actually fall nicely to you fingers. I also use binds for the wheel buttons to cycle through commands etc.
Overall: happy I spent the money. In LFS I am finding the difficult setups eg.Flotch WR set for Blackwood, which I found very difficult to drive with DFP has become transformed and a pleasure to use, with smoother acceleration and braking. The steering itself has very nice feel to it with lovely turn in and feedback. RBR same again finding it much easier to modulate braking and acceleration which has led me to knock about 3-5 secs of my PB,s.
I will be honest and say these both feel like new games again, not in a bad way but more like I am actually driving them..
If anybody else has any other questions then ill do my best to answer
Cheers Mike
You have to be aware that I don’t get the chance to race too much these days so im a bit rusty driving. My former wheel was the DFP.
Construction: The whole package oozes quality
Wheel: Rock solid mounting; zero play in the wheel and the dead spot from the DFP has gone. Very quiet with minimal notchiness from the gearing inside, in fact I don’t really notice it. Wheel size is way better (diameter and thickness) with the leather giving a very nice feel. Buttons are very nicely placed. I come onto the lack of buttons question when describing the gearshift. Paddles on the back are very nice and I especially like the extended ears, which makes it easier to grab a gear when whipping the wheel about.
FF: Incredibly smooth with none of the jerkiness I found with the DFP. I have had to increase the FF up to 65% in LFS and 100% inRBR (compared to 50/70 ish) which is not to say the ff is weaker but more controlled and I think much less lag. The feel you get when the cars slide about makes the whole experience much more involving with the wheel behaving as it would in a normal car.
Pedals: I refuse to takes these apart...for now anyways. I can only assume that the red piston shape is a shroud for the springs, but then again that’s purely speculation. The accelerator has good spring strength and brake and clutch have heavy settings so you really have to stomp on the brakes now. The pedal travel is much longer which I am finding is making my driving smoother. You can heal and toe pretty easily for the downshift. I have resorted to my old climbing stickies as the pedal effort was giving me sore feet (used to use socks) and it makes the heal and toe easier. Probably due to the larger footprint/weight the pedals have not moved since I put them in place.
Gear stick/console: Good solid mounting. gear throw through the gates is swift and sure. There is a loudish click from the switches when you select a gear, but again I have gotten used to it pretty quickly and with earphones on it just give you a faintly audible/tactile notification that you have a gear. The stick stays in the gear position firmly. I have not tried it in sequential mode, and probably wont, as it is too much fun being able to jump from 6th to 2nd for hairpins etc. The lack off switches on the wheel has not really been a concern as when you are actually setup the switches actually fall nicely to you fingers. I also use binds for the wheel buttons to cycle through commands etc.
Overall: happy I spent the money. In LFS I am finding the difficult setups eg.Flotch WR set for Blackwood, which I found very difficult to drive with DFP has become transformed and a pleasure to use, with smoother acceleration and braking. The steering itself has very nice feel to it with lovely turn in and feedback. RBR same again finding it much easier to modulate braking and acceleration which has led me to knock about 3-5 secs of my PB,s.
I will be honest and say these both feel like new games again, not in a bad way but more like I am actually driving them..
If anybody else has any other questions then ill do my best to answer
Cheers Mike
Thanks for the preview. I just cant wait anymore ... Damn im kinda bored of my DFP, so its been a couple of week since my last race on LFS.
Good to hear that there's no play and no dead zone anymore. But do you think that the wheel will remain like this after a couple of month ?
Nevertheless what a relief to know that it'll be quiet contrary to the DFP which is well known to be noisy
illepallhttp://www.hardware.info/video ... tech-g25-720p.wmv.torrent
Holy shit. :hyper: :faint2:
Review in German plus new pics: http://www.hardware.info/nl-NL ... ech_G25_racestuur_Review/
Holy shit. :hyper: :faint2:
Review in German plus new pics: http://www.hardware.info/nl-NL ... ech_G25_racestuur_Review/
This is just great. thanks dude.
Its dutch
Sorry if I offended your language
Tweaker:
Is there really only two clamping screws in the wheel? I mean these. And those two screws seem to be more far away from each other than in my MOMO which also has the third screw below the wheel console. Just wondering that are those screws too far away to be used with desk that has curved edge like mine.
That explains why babelfish was having difficulty translating, heh. Much better. Now I can read half the words....
Yes there are only 2 clamps on the wheel, the gap between them is 187mm and the clamps themselves are 20mm wide. The wheel itself is evidently designed to be mounted to a straight edge.
You may have to come up with an imaginative way of using a flat piece of wood like a bookshelf in conjunction with your desk to be able to mount it securely.
The clamps on G25 are about 20 mm further apart than the clamps on MOMO Racing so G25 should mount just fine on that curved desk (if it was curved the other way it would not). Maximum clamp opening is 52 mm. The picture shown has the "spacer clips" installed which are included for use on very thin desks. They "snap off" when pushed from the side to allow maximum clamp opening. The clips are shipped installed for ease of packaging. G25's clamping system in nearly identical to DFP except for the "push down/rotate" to latch clamp knobs.
I just looked at your attached image: the distance you indicate with the two red arrows is "depth under the lip" not clamping width. This distance is 17 mm and really only comes into play if your mounting surface has a "lip" hanging down that is more than 52 mm and very close to the edge. Hope this helps.
Clamps look idential on the underside to DFP ones, so should keep the wheel nice and secure. My desk starts moving around before the wheel shifts.
You guys sure it uses the proper bolting pattern for the wheel? If so it only uses half of it, and the other 3 are fake..guess that'd still be pretty secure, although if that is the case I already sense a mod coming. Take a look at these pics and tell me what you think.
What you are looking at is the end of the Main Shaft/Bull gear. What is not shown is the "Hub/Paddle Shifters" assembly which is attached to the Main Shaft with three large screws. This assembly goes on after the Top Case is installed over the Main Shaft and Clamp Caps. The Hub has six screw bosses that accept the six hex headed screws that hold the wheel on. It should be noted that the Stainless Steel Wheel Frame is not directly held on with the six screws. They sit in six pockets in the Center Bezel and the pockets align and hold the Wheel onto the Hub. The bolt pattern is set at 25 mm radius (50 mm screw center line to screw centerline).
This should not be surprising since MOMO designed the G25 wheel as well as all other aspects of the industrial design.
Here is a review of Logitech G25 racing wheel.
http://www.hardware.info/en-US ... G25_racing_wheel__Review/
It’s good to see the details and there is a video showing a guy driving with it…
Disappointingly, as it is shown on the video, he is reviewing an 900degree wheel in 200 mode OMG useless reviewer!!!illepall
http://www.hardware.info/en-US ... G25_racing_wheel__Review/
It’s good to see the details and there is a video showing a guy driving with it…
Disappointingly, as it is shown on the video, he is reviewing an 900degree wheel in 200 mode OMG useless reviewer!!!
illepallYeah, I didn't know should I laugh or cry after seeing it, but it turned into laughter after I saw his shoes and driving technique.
BTW Your link doesn't work. heres working one:
http://www.hardware.info/en-US ... G25_racing_wheel__Review/
We cant blame him since its the only video which is worthy.
You know, it is possible that so many people lack the feel of how-to use a shifter controller for gaming. I had the Act-Labs shifter and that stuck in each gear very nicely, but it was almost too much because it had such a long throw for each gear. I had to get used to that.
The G25's Shifter is indeed "loose" in some areas, "strong" in others, but whatever you see when people handle the shifter, THEY ARE BEING PANSIES!!!! Everyone I see is just holding their shifter like they are threading a needle, and being all delicate. Of course it will be loose if people don't give it some bite. It is a quick shifter, and you can knock the shifter loose from a gear if you try to. But while racing, having trouble with the shifter is hardly going to happen once you get used to it. I had to get used to it.
If it was terribly wrong and a horrible shifter, I wouldn't say any of this, but the shifter is good, functions fine, and personally I wouldn't let videos change judgement of the product. Even if you got a chance to try it for yourself, you would undoubtedly say it is loose or flimsy... but use it with it's purpose, give it some grease and put it in each gear with some strength, that is how it should be used... and that adds to the experience when you get into it.
The G25's Shifter is indeed "loose" in some areas, "strong" in others, but whatever you see when people handle the shifter, THEY ARE BEING PANSIES!!!! Everyone I see is just holding their shifter like they are threading a needle, and being all delicate. Of course it will be loose if people don't give it some bite. It is a quick shifter, and you can knock the shifter loose from a gear if you try to. But while racing, having trouble with the shifter is hardly going to happen once you get used to it. I had to get used to it.
If it was terribly wrong and a horrible shifter, I wouldn't say any of this, but the shifter is good, functions fine, and personally I wouldn't let videos change judgement of the product. Even if you got a chance to try it for yourself, you would undoubtedly say it is loose or flimsy... but use it with it's purpose, give it some grease and put it in each gear with some strength, that is how it should be used... and that adds to the experience when you get into it.
Any buyer is of course entitled to be suspicious of the product, and it is only wise that people wait to see what people think of it. However, most wheel/controller reviews are very biased because most of it is personal taste of how things are made. And there will probably only be complaints about the shifter and 2 buttons on the wheel, but that is nothing compared to the essentials, the wheel and pedals themselves. Everything else is a big step up from Logitech's previous wheel history. For $300, I can already tell you that it is well worth the money. I had to spend $200 on Logitech's Red MOMO when it was on the shelves, and the only thing that was worth the money was the wheel itself. Pedals were crap, and it was only 2 pedal set. If you put that in perspective and compare it with the G25, G25 is easily twice as good as the acclaimed Red MOMO. The G25's wheel is actually better than the Red MOMO's. Force Feedback motors are better, stronger, there are 2, and the sensor for the steering is not a potentiometer like in the Red MOMO, it is an optical sensor, and very long lasting. G25 has a 3 pedal set, all of varying stiffness, and way better construction. Pedals are easily Logitech's best pedals to date, and I would never hestitate to think otherwise. Because a while back, I was planning on getting an expensive $400 3-pedal set from some 3rd party manufacturer to go along with my Red MOMO. Worthless idea.
Having the G25 you have a huge amount of options given, and it is all worth the $300 if you add everything up. You are the first I've heard thinking that $300 is a bit cheap and might mean the product is cheap (most people say it is expensive, lol).... but you've got to realize that it is mass produced, and they are trying to make a quality wheel for an affordable price. Logitech is spot on with this... and I cannot stress more that their older wheels just suck compared to this
But you can really only judge it if you test it yourself hands on. So if you goto a nice store and see it on display, see how it feels. But usually people purposely break display versions, so don't judge it then, lol.
well it looks like they have the pedals right, no tennis balls this time.
Logitech G25 reviews
Showing the G25 playing LFS, posted by Gopher at the T7R forum, not sure if its been mentioned here, looks nice, not sure I like the gear change sound.
Dan,
http://www.hardware.info/en-UK ... G25_racing_wheel__Review/
Dan,
http://www.hardware.info/en-UK ... G25_racing_wheel__Review/
I've attached some pics of the device(s) trying to show some features.
Pedal footprint is much bigger than previous Logitech pedals (longer, not wider). It's much heavier than Momo or DFP pedals. I didn't bother opening them up but they feel quite solid compared to what I'm used to. Ergonomically not as good as the Momo or DFP but better in every other way, I'll just have to train some new foot and leg muscles to suit. The pedals have quite a bit of feel now and resist being pushed much more than previous Logitech pedals. Each has a different resistance, the brake feels the hardest. You can actually dab the brake and get the desired effect, rather than the usual gamble you get with softly-sprung pedals.
Shifter profile showing clamping system. The bottom clamp might have been better if it reached a little further under the desk. The shifter is noisy, but that's what you'd expect from this sort of product, still; late night shifting will be kept to a minimum, which is a bit of a shame. The buttons on the shifter was a bad idea, the shifter itself obscures them. At least with the provision of hard mounts(2) you can perhaps make a special shifter platform and locate it in a better position (lower and back towards the driver). The h-gate is good but not great. Missing a gear is easy and it is not too hard to bump it into neutral, I would have liked more resistance (both ways) here. It's not so bad though, just not fantastic. The shift knob does the job, but is perhaps the worst thing about the G25 aesthetically since they used some cheap-looking grey plastic insert to denote the h-pattern. I'm happy with the shifter, but let's just say I'm not exactly staring into space drooling over it.
Top view of shifter (in 2nd gear).
Underside of shifter you can see the hard mounts, the pedals and wheel have them too.
Underside of wheel showing the cable retention grooves to keep cables neat (I've shown one cable using the grooves in the image, all four sit neatly in those). It isn't well illustrated, but the long thing in the centre is for wrapping excess cable around, a good idea. The pedal USB cable could have been longer by a few inches IMO.
Pedal footprint is much bigger than previous Logitech pedals (longer, not wider). It's much heavier than Momo or DFP pedals. I didn't bother opening them up but they feel quite solid compared to what I'm used to. Ergonomically not as good as the Momo or DFP but better in every other way, I'll just have to train some new foot and leg muscles to suit. The pedals have quite a bit of feel now and resist being pushed much more than previous Logitech pedals. Each has a different resistance, the brake feels the hardest. You can actually dab the brake and get the desired effect, rather than the usual gamble you get with softly-sprung pedals.
Shifter profile showing clamping system. The bottom clamp might have been better if it reached a little further under the desk. The shifter is noisy, but that's what you'd expect from this sort of product, still; late night shifting will be kept to a minimum, which is a bit of a shame. The buttons on the shifter was a bad idea, the shifter itself obscures them. At least with the provision of hard mounts(2) you can perhaps make a special shifter platform and locate it in a better position (lower and back towards the driver). The h-gate is good but not great. Missing a gear is easy and it is not too hard to bump it into neutral, I would have liked more resistance (both ways) here. It's not so bad though, just not fantastic. The shift knob does the job, but is perhaps the worst thing about the G25 aesthetically since they used some cheap-looking grey plastic insert to denote the h-pattern. I'm happy with the shifter, but let's just say I'm not exactly staring into space drooling over it.
Top view of shifter (in 2nd gear).
Underside of shifter you can see the hard mounts, the pedals and wheel have them too.
Underside of wheel showing the cable retention grooves to keep cables neat (I've shown one cable using the grooves in the image, all four sit neatly in those). It isn't well illustrated, but the long thing in the centre is for wrapping excess cable around, a good idea. The pedal USB cable could have been longer by a few inches IMO.
More pics
Clamping system of the wheel unit, similar to what we are used to with the DFP/Momo range. I have no complaints, it works well on my desk. There are two hard mounts towards the front of the wheel. The little warning sticker suggests that you shouldn't let young children near the device, I think this is exceptionally good advice. In fact they should have one suggesting not to let the wife near the device either, once she discovers how much you spent on it you will be hard pressed to explain your reasoning behind the purchase. Luckily for me my other half is the most amazing creature ever to bless the earth with the imprint of her foot, so I'm not in the doghouse, which is good.
2nd image shows the desk clamp profile.
The knobs that you turn to fasten the clamps are sleek and modern and seem to work just fine.
A nifty mechanism allows you to push and turn the knob to recess it tucking it neatly out of the way.
2nd image shows the desk clamp profile.
The knobs that you turn to fasten the clamps are sleek and modern and seem to work just fine.
A nifty mechanism allows you to push and turn the knob to recess it tucking it neatly out of the way.
Logitech G25 reviews
(85 posts, started )
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