At the local EB games, there's about 1/2 shelf for PC games, while there are 2 shelves per console for consol games. At Best Buy, it's just a partial row of games. Then the prices, GTR2 - $19.99, GTLegends - $9.99, Flatout 2 - $29.99 (so much for racing sims over arcade games). Adventure and role playing games are $30 to $40 (for some reason XBOX 360 games are cheaper than the other console games). If this is a trend, I'm wondering how popular pc based racing games will be by the time S3 is released.
PC based racing games will remain popular as long as console manufacturers insist on catering only to children and as soon as they realise that putting more buttons and levers on a game controller does not solve the problem of not having enough input functions.
p.s. it is impossible to predict when S3 will be finalised so it is impossible to factor that in to my reponse.
In general terms, I think consoles will always have an edge (numbers-wise) over PC games (at least until the two different platforms become indistinguishable, which may well happen in the next decade-ish), mostly due to the one-time cost of consoles. As we know it can be an expensive PITA to keep a PC current enough to run the newest games.
However, partly due to the immediate "turn on and go" console environment and partly due to the generally younger demographic involved, console games will nearly always have to compromise their complexity in some way (at least in comparison to PC games) in order to achieve broad popularity over a range of age groups.
I think PC-based sims (race, flight, whichever) will always have a loyal audience because of the quality of the playing experience made possible by modern graphics/sound hardware, endless PC customising options and varied range of quality PC-specific hardware like FF wheels, sticks, shifters etc (I know you can get wheel & pedal sets for consoles but console game physics don't really make such a purchase worth it from a simracer's point of view). Also, PC game devs will always be able to upgrade or modify their products with patches, fixes etc and communities that grow around games will always be able (devs permitting) to create their own content for games as well as have input into how games develop. In the case of Grand Prix Legends (a great example imho), community involvement has been vital to keeping that game alive since its commercial failure in 1998 and it is continually evolving in different directions even as we speak (bring on the 1966 Mod!).
I think PC sims will always have a place in this world (completely regardless of the eventual S3 release date), as it will take some time before console games can match the driving experience provided by PC sims. Also, smaller developers like those of LFS & nK will always have a way to reach customers with their high-end niche products due to the ease of using the web, as opposed to the highly insular & money-charged world of console game development. These smaller PC developers will, vitally, always have access (if they wish it) to many thousands of beta-testers who will happily find flaws in early versions of a game. Those devs will also be able to rely on word-of-mouth to spread awareness of their creation (I think that's been vital to LFS & nK), as opposed to requiring huge sums to fund marketing campaigns used by console game developers. I think it might be some time before consoles and console game development evolve to a point where it is possible to engage in such a high level of community involvement. There is a freedom in PC development as it allows developers to move at their own pace and at their own budget, with as small or large a company as they want/need and let the quality of their product (i.e. LFS & nK again!) speak for itself :up:
I found an interesting project at http://iracing.com/.
Seems they also got the plan to develop a racing "simulation".
Some members of that project are former developers of the famous nascar
series.
So does this mean that LFS S3 final release won't be ported over to a PlayStation 9?
PC games may remain somewhat popular, but just looking at the shelves of EBGames made it seem pretty dismal. I checked out another Best Buy, and they still have one complete row of PC based games, another half row of edcuational / family stuff, shared with office / os software. Maybe players are expecting more from the games.
Regarding non racing games, the Myst series is done, the Tombraider series is probably done as well. Most of the first person shooters are just sequels, Half Life 2, Quake 4, Doom 3, ... Will Halo 2 ever get released for PC? Star Wars Knights of the Republic 1 and 2 was made (2 was runshed and didn't get a proper ending), and there probably won't be a 3. I don't play the strategy / role playing games, which seem to be popular, so I can't say if their popularity has changed one way or the other.
Racing games for the PC have always been mostly arcade anyway. EA keeps churning out new versions of Need For Speed, but the life span for each new release, at least in terms of online play, gets shorter each time, with the exception of NFS6 - Hot Pursuit 2, which runs on gamespy and seems to have a loyal fan base (not sure why, this was never one of the better NFS games, but it's the only one not shut down by EA except for Most Wanted, limited to 4 players, no chat, so it's like playing against AI, except more of them cheat).
Speaking for myself, there's a bit of burnout, as I rarely play any game online anymore, so I have fun just hot lapping or just messing around with a variety of games. I don't know if there's a general burnt out factor with most players or if the thrill is just gone since computer games have been out for so many years now.
I'm still planning to buy an S3 license when it's close to being released, but that seems like it will be 2 or 3 years away, and I'm wondering how much PC's and consoles will change by then.
EB started cutting back on PC titles about a year ago. Other stores have a better range but EB seems to be placing themselves in the console market now. When consoles have a keyboard and decent games I'll think about getting one. They are way over-priced though.
AU$600 bucks for a platform that will last 4 years or so is waay cheaper than keeping your PC up to date. The hard ware is artifically cheap (I'm sure you know this already). Yeah, new release games are expensive as they are on PC, but I tend to just run 6 months behind the release schedule and pick up things at half price.
I still play and love my consoles. Not for racing 'sims' (games) though. Consoles are all about kicking back on the sofa with a beer for some action/adventure, RPG or sports games with the mates. Consoles are much better than PCs in this area.
My PC will always be exclusively for sims and RTSs.
I'm not familiar with this particular store you're referrring to, but I wonder how indicitive it is of genuine software sales for the PC. There's tons more PC software catering to diverse genres and interests, not just FPS's and RPG's.
Personally I'd like to see a greater moving a way from the kind of 'bricks and mortar' ie- cd in a plastic box type distribution. In the net age, to me, turning computer code into a physical product is a waste of materials (plastic and aluminium) and one more thing that's just lying around on your desk which needs to be cleaned away.
I don't think it is waay cheaper at all. PCs are pretty cheap now and getting cheaper all the time, also they provide muuch more value to me than today's consoles can. I can stay on top of the advancements in software veery cheaply and the range of software I can run compared to a console makes the PC purchase waay better value than a gaming console. A console is really worth about AU$149, which incidentally is how much the price usually drops to just when they are about to release their next model.
I'm nooot sure what you mean by 'advancements in software', but I thought you were talking about hardware for games. Aye, you can run more kinds of software on PCs, but if we're only talking about gaming platforms here, there is no way PCs are cheaper. You can get cheap PCs but decent gaming platforms, they aren't.
Anywho, back to the crux of my point. PCs for sims and RTSs. Consoles for the other stuff that I play...
I have a couple of PS consoles but I don't think I've wasted any cash at all, mainly because I waited until the inevitable price drop to buy them and I always rent games first to see if they're worth buying.
In my experience buying a console & games can be (is, even) a looot cheaper than updating a PC every so often - as long as you don't get one straight away and are discerning about the games you buy. Those chumps that sleep on the street for two days to pay $600 for a brand new console and then have to buy games and stuff do make me scratch my head illepall Although having one of those chumps as a mate is great - you can test the hell out of his machine before springing for your own
Is that in the same way as GTR, GTR2, RFactor and NKPro was going to
Going back on topic. There will always be a market for PC games, as there just is not enough processing power in a console to provide the realism in simulations. If you look at the overall picture, console's are becomming more and more like PC's ( except with the lack of operating systems ) Also console games, are like a quick fix for money ( imo ) They don't need updating, no patches required, just make it, release it, and live off it. PC games are a total different ball game. There is a bug or flaw, they are expected to fix it, update it, somebody make a mod for it, re-tune it. Also, I find, that Console gaming and pc gaming are at an age thing.
What I mean by this, is you get kids ( aged from what ever to about 12-13 ) like to plug and play. Don;t have time to learn this, and that. Now when they get a little older, then find PC gaming, like to play around with buttons and software, like to investigate.
Console gaming = Quick Fix
PC Gaming = Leisurly Fix :o) ( for us olders that like to take our time )
Consoles are all about fast fun. I'm kind of a long-commitment kind of a guy so I leave that stuff out of my life
As I see it, racing sims are forerunners in the way of selling sofware over internet. If you look at it as it is now, selling sims on the net is nothing new anymore, for me personally it is the best way. For a small developer group it requires no middlemen as you can sell it directly to the customer and therefore you also have total control over the product. And the audience is old enough to buy it this way. When you want to sell the software in a box you need to make the box, design the box, produce the CDs, design the CDs, write a manual, print it etc... And to make the product available for the consumer on all around of the world is impossible. So the consumers have to buy it from the internet anyway.
Other thing is that racing sims, like flying sims, produce profit only on long term and this requires that the developer is ready to commit a long relationship with its customers. This is because the higher you aim, the more selective and knowlegeable the target audience is. [rant]Of course this can be proven otherwise by looking at some of the physics hotshots on RSC. It is not real because it doesn't feel real, but it is real because someone who has seen a racecar in real life says it is. This is not a way to sell a sim, but a game .[/rant]
I wouldn't be too worried about sims dying because they aren't. There are few good ones, yes, but there is always something new coming. iRacing, netkar, Race, Drivers' republic and even Racing legends. From full lawsuit attack to fullest simulational hc vaporware physics shootout.
There is, imho huge potential still to be found because the older public still sees racing sims as games and therefore they have no interest to look into it. When the older people (30+) find out that modern racing sims are very refined products and require professional touch the market will skyrocket. Think it this way. Imagine you're 20 years old and you have just bought a cheap car for yourself to do some rallying, autocrossing or track racing. Would your 50 years old father want to try it? Probably yes, more probably he would insist to take a little test drive, but if it was a racing sim, would he want to try out that Porsche or LX6? Probably not because it is just a game, a toy.
Still, there are just so many people interested about racing and are dreaming about buying a racing car and trying it out but just can't afford it. Racing sims is the safest, cheapest and easiest way to try it. But that won't happen, imho, in 10 years because a game is a game and games are stuff your 15 years old son does, not you. But in ten years the computers have developed that yhe graphics and audio look and sound more like the real thing, are easier to use and cost less. And it is considered to be a hobby, like flying RC planes is today.
Consoles vs PC's is a bit like Pop Music vs Jazz. The majority of people purchasing are content with the disposable, middle of the road product, and don't want to be bothered with anything more complicated.
A minority want much more, and can't tolerate anything that isn't extremely complicated and challenges them.
Miles Davies will never replace Brittnay Spears as a popular celebrity.
It's comparing apples and quarks.
But this isn't a problem, it's reality. PC Sims not selling as well as Consoles ? More people would prefer playing Gran Turismo than LFS ?
Not suprising, and perfectly natural. And not about to change anytime soon.
The Xbox 360 has PLENTY of processing power. More than the average PC by far. Try to run a game at 1080i resolution on a $400 PC and see how well that works.
Again, not true. Consoles these days (ever since the Xbox) can be patched and have updates released. There are items for many games these days which are only available via download (cars for Test Drive Unlimited, for example). It's definitely not a game of "make the game and sit back" either since many console games - especially sports games - release a new version every single year. Most PC games don't do releases anywhere near this often.
The same is true for consoles. The difference is that consoles rarely need patches because they are designed for a locked system. If everyone who played PC games had the same motherboard, same sound card, same video card, etc. there would be little need for patching PC games.
Again, not true. Consoles haven't been aimed at kids since the Super Nintendo and Genesis days. The average age of a console gamer these days is 30! It's not an age thing at all.
illepall Although having one of those chumps as a mate is great - you can test the hell out of his machine before springing for your own 
