Hello, I have some experience in simracing, however, I'm unable to cope with RWD cars using street tires in LFS. I don't know if it's just me, or the game (don't beat me up for writing this). The reason I'm saying this is because I'm doing so-so with slicks. Actually, I just get in and drive, fuss free. With stock tires and RWD, every corner is a challenge... that I fail.
Yes, I know about weight transfer and tire slip angles (I have real life motorsport experience and I drive a Renault 5... yes, the same that is famous for it's lift off oversteer) but those RWD street cars feel like they have greased bricks instead of rear wheels. Every single time I lift a bit or gas it a bit a mad oversteer slide starts that I am very rarely able to catch. The slide begins very abruptly in my opinion, with no warning of what's coming. Didn't have such problems in GPL or GTL...

I has the same

Post a replay of your driving - it will allow a much better analysis that just your words. In fact, posting replays should be mandatory for any 'complaints' of physics.

Personally I have no problems driving road tyred cars, and can feel the oversteer building up about 5 minutes in advance <- a slight exaggeration

Quote from Sensekhmet :

Hello, I have some experience in simracing, however, I'm unable to cope with RWD cars using street tires in LFS. I don't know if it's just me, or the game (don't beat me up for writing this). The reason I'm saying this is because I'm doing so-so with slicks. Actually, I just get in and drive, fuss free. With stock tires and RWD, every corner is a challenge... that I fail.
Yes, I know about weight transfer and tire slip angles (I have real life motorsport experience and I drive a Renault 5... yes, the same that is famous for it's lift off oversteer) but those RWD street cars feel like they have greased bricks instead of rear wheels. Every single time I lift a bit or gas it a bit a mad oversteer slide starts that I am very rarely able to catch. The slide begins very abruptly in my opinion, with no warning of what's coming. Didn't have such problems in GPL or GTL...

Lower you diff locking values and the cars will feel more tame. By default they are in a range that gives you a lot of weight shift control through the throttle.

What kind of setups are you using?

I'm using default setups. My philosophy is "drive what you've got". I think I'll have to gain some skill with default set-ups before I start wrenching away in the garage. Not that I'd know what to do...
Before you say I 'complain' about physics, read what I have written: I don't know if it's just me, or the game.
As for the replay: I'd have to record one. Can you recommend what should it be? Practice? Race? How many laps? What car?

The "Hard track" setup is about unbearable and feels like a shopping cart.
The "Race_S" setup is about bearable. Actually usable for some basic driving, but not easy.
The setups from http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu are well handling and fast, actually world-record pace.

This might solve your issue.

Vain

Yes, the default setups, alteast the [Hard track] ones are pretty awful. Apart from Inferno's setups, which often provide a good base, you could try Bob's Easy Race setups, though I'm not sure if they're still up-to-date with the "new" physics changes.

E: Oh, I just read that they're pretty understeery with the new physics, but they should be updated soon (if Bob doesn't get lazy )

I'd suggest more practise with headphones on and tyre volume up. Listen to the tyres and slowly increase pace and try to find the limits. The tyre physics may be a bit off, thats true, but trust me, you'll like it once you drive enough and get used to it.

Quote from Sensekhmet :

I'm using default setups. My philosophy is "drive what you've got". I think I'll have to gain some skill with default set-ups before I start wrenching away in the garage. Not that I'd know what to do...
Before you say I 'complain' about physics, read what I have written: I don't know if it's just me, or the game.
As for the replay: I'd have to record one. Can you recommend what should it be? Practice? Race? How many laps? What car?

I think we would be quite happy with a simple replay where you just drove few laps so we could see and analyze it for you . You are driving the LX6? And maybe try a better setup as there can be huge differences between bad and average setup

Yeah, I have to agree setups are crucial. Whatever you are starting with, take off all rear anti-roll bar, and set your coast diff to be quite a high % locking. I found I had a lot of trouble going into corners with the LX6 until I increased the coast locking to help with stability.

Quote from AndroidXP :

E: Oh, I just read that they're pretty understeery with the new physics, but they should be updated soon (if Bob doesn't get lazy )

Meh, it takes plenty of testing to make sure they are stabled when raced, but most of the cars are never raced online and I get bored in single player pretty quickly... doesn't inspire me to work on them. I'm looking into other LFS related things atm, I'm sure my attention came back.

And yeah, the default sets are pants.

The defaults are understeery, yes, but lift off the throttle and you get huge oversteer... If you're not ready for this, you'll certainly fail at every corner...

Two replays, three laps each, Aston Cadet, LX6.
The first replay was driven on 'default' setup, the second one with a midified 'default' setup (no rear anti-roll bar and 70% lock on coast side).
Lines are horrible, my wheel's acting up a bit (late downshifts and an occasional brake feather) but all in all this should give you an idea of the mess I'm in.

Quote from Sensekhmet :

Two replays, three laps each, Aston Cadet, LX6.
The first replay was driven on 'default' setup, the second one with a midified 'default' setup (no rear anti-roll bar and 70% lock on coast side).
Lines are horrible, my wheel's acting up a bit (late downshifts and an occasional brake feather) but all in all this should give you an idea of the mess I'm in.

Here are some tips for avoiding oversteer in RWD.

Increase front ARB - this will make the car push on more under power and make any slide easier to control.

Increase front spring and bump - this means less lift off oversteer.

Increase brake locking for LSD - as above

Reduce Power locking for LSD - will allow the rear inside wheel to spin up slightly, makes the oversteer easier to control.

Reduce rear brake bias - too much and the back will step out under braking.

Reduce Rear ARB / spring rates, damper rates. Will reduce oversteer but too soft will make the car feel vague and respond slowly.

Add some rear toe-in - will help keep the back in check if it breaks loose.

What you'll find is that you can make the RWDs very understeery and this makes them easy to control. It will also make the set very slow but it's a starting point. Then add as much oversteer as you need to get it into the apexes.

Have anyone took a look at those replays?

Both setups have a lot of understeer, but the first one has much more turn in oversteer for some reason (I can't look at the setup because LFS doesn't let you). I test drove both, and found the second one to be much quicker, albeit more frustrating. I think my best was 56.62 or something, with a couple of silly laps to get tyre temps.

You don't seem to follow very good lines, and your quite abrupt with the steering, and you often steer too much causing loads of understeer. Perhaps you can learn to use the throttle to adjust your lines, as well as holding on to power oversteer a bit more - you get out of the throttle very early!

This is a replay of my test-drive in your second replay. I'm driving like a noob, but I think most of the time understeer is your problem.

As of now I'm completely paralysed by fear of oversteer. 9 out of 10 times I'm unable to catch the rear or I overcorrect badly. So I guess power-oversteer is out of my reach.

Don't be afraid - it's a simulation, so what better way to learn car control than a realistic environment that cannot hurt you? Just go for it. In time you'll be able to catch more and more, and then you can exploit the oversteer to your advantage.

But for now, assuming you don't want power oversteer, I think we need to look at your understeer and turn in oversteer problems. I'm going to hedge my bets on the differential settings and your anti-roll bars. Can you post your setups?

My second replay (the one you test drove I think) used a modified 'default' setup (no rear anti-roll bar and 70% lock on coast side: this was recommended on this thread).

My Dad had the same problem correcting oversteer (in LFS and in autox in my Miata) so I set him up with the XRG on the skidpad and said get sideways! He was fine getting the lock on, but his problem was winding the lock back off once you grip again quickly enough. A few short sessions on the skidpad and then he went onto a track and practiced that some more, and he was doing much better in only an hour or so. Like Tristan said, just get out there and practice

I'd also say the LX6 is just about the hardest road car to learn to control oversteer in! The XR GT is very forgiving and a great way to learn all about oversteer before you step up...just a thought. Have fun

I'm increasingly frustrated as I had no such problems in other sims and no such problems in real life (I drive only FWD cars but left foot braking or lift-off oversteer are my buddies ).

Quote from Sensekhmet :

I'm increasingly frustrated as I had no such problems in other sims and no such problems in real life (I drive only FWD cars but left foot braking or lift-off oversteer are my buddies ).

Well, going from a FWD to a light, powerful twitchy RWD beast like the LX6 could be a problem! The more powerful grippy 7-style cars like that are notoriously tricky to handle on the limit, and the LX6 is no exception, especially without a good setup and when lacking the seat-of-the-pants feel of actually being in the car.

If you try the XFG you should find that fun and controllable (including lift-off oversteer) as it's probably more comparable (handling wise, not neccessarily power) to what you're used to in real life. For RWD, I would definitely start with the XRG and work your way up.

Quote from Sensekhmet :

I'm increasingly frustrated as I had no such problems in other sims and no such problems in real life (I drive only FWD cars but left foot braking or lift-off oversteer are my buddies ).

Rememeber that IRL you get much more feedback through your body. And if by other sims you mean anything on an ISI engine (F1C, rF, GTR, GTL etc) that could be the reason as they are an old model that has problems and holes in it that is normally made up for with extra grip being added.

If you have a force feedback steering wheel you need to learn what the wheel is telling you and react when you feel the car get out of shape. If not you have to learn the visual and audio cues.

BTW what contoller do you use?

A cheap-o Saitek R100. It gets the job done.
I'd like to ask you about what should I practice with the XF GT. I don't believe that just driving up and down a track (crashing every 15 seconds) will teach me anything.