+1 would love rotary as long there is a street version and race version of the car, has to sound right to

Quote from Forbin :

Erm, we have one. It's called the XRT (aka GTT) and it gets the crap kicked out of it by an Opel Astra (clone). BTW, I'm well aware that it's closer in appearance to a Starion. That doesn't change the fact that the performance figures (power, torque, mass, balance) are all very similar.

No, the Starion is not an RX-7. It's F/R, but that's as far as similarities go. As for torque, a 13A isn't really a 4G63. The 4G63 is about beautifully smooth and wide powerbands with FAT mid range torque and vey good top end. The 13A has more of a F-1 nature (revver). The FDs had sequential turbos that led to behavior even more "interesting" then the current XR GTT with its inaccurate turbo modelling.

Yes, their masses, mass distributions and peak power were quite similiar, but differences in powerbands make a HUGE difference to how cars handle.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Rx7FC1.jpg

The FC doesn't look too different - enginewise however, they are completely different

Quote from Jamexing :

No, the Starion is not an RX-7. It's F/R, but that's as far as similarities go. As for torque, a 13A isn't really a 4G63. The 4G63 is about beautifully smooth and wide powerbands with FAT mid range torque and vey good top end. The 13A has more of a F-1 nature (revver). The FDs had sequential turbos that led to behavior even more "interesting" then the current XR GTT with its inaccurate turbo modelling.

Yes, their masses, mass distributions and peak power were quite similiar, but differences in powerbands make a HUGE difference to how cars handle.

my 13bt fc pulls strongly from 2500rpm onwards... there's no hint of 'f1 nature'. feels like a similar powerband to other mild turbo cars around the 2L mark, but keeps pulling strongly right up to redline rather than dropping off.

Quote from Blowtus :

my 13bt fc pulls strongly from 2500rpm onwards... there's no hint of 'f1 nature'. feels like a similar powerband to other mild turbo cars around the 2L mark, but keeps pulling strongly right up to redline rather than dropping off.

True, there aren't as gutless as the current Renesis at mid-low rpms thanks to the turbo, but they're no rally engines (mid range stump pulling torque monsters like the 4G63). As you've said, it pulls smoothly and strongly to the redline, as rotaries should. Beautiful top end power. And I was refering to the sequential turbo FD with a noticable hole in its powerband somewhere in its rev range which I can't remember right now.

Anyway, good on you for owning and driving an FC.

I must have missed the bit where the discussion went from 'we don't have an rx7 equivalent' to stump pulling rally engies and twin turbo things...??

Quote from Blowtus :

I must have missed the bit where the discussion went from 'we don't have an rx7 equivalent' to stump pulling rally engies and twin turbo things...??

Well, let's get back to the point. Do we want a turbocharged rotary engined car in LFS or not? Maybe setup some sort of poll just to gauge public opinion.

I don't think there've been many half reasonable 'more content' polls that have shown that people wouldn't want more content...

Quote from Shotglass :

are you sure ? according to wiki the wankel himself patented the concept in 33

According to wikipedia, he conceived the idea in 1954 :P It doesn't say who holds patents or rights at this point in time, but 'Howstuffworks' IIRC says that Mazda holds exclusive rights to the Wankel pattern engines, now. (Was not always the case) Wikipedia mentions that a Soviet car car company and a Soviet airplane company have also experimented with Wankel engines, but it says in doing so they have infringed upon several western pattents; and that may be the main reason that little to nothing is known about these projects.

Another little tidbit from Wikipedia I found comical;

Quote from Wikipedia :

Wankel Rotary Engine is a phrase included in a Monty Python audio sketch, titled "Are You Embarrassed Easily?" on Monty Python's Previous Record (1972). It is here considered to sound rude due to the word "Wankel," which sounds dirty but is actually a name of a person. In Dutch the word "wankel" means unstable, unsettled, tottering, waddling, toddling, staggering, rickety, labile, which does not help selling this type of engine in Dutch speaking regions.

hehe Can any Dutch speakers here verify this?

offtopic

Quote from duke_toaster :

Ford own 33% or so of Mazda. Also, Porsche own 25% or so of VWAG. But Porsche suck compared to anything British like a Vauxhaull Monaro or a Lotus

1) a cheap Opel Omega Chassis coupled with a BIG American Engine, and a design made by australians...A TRUE BRITISH SPORTSCAR! HAIL VAUXHALL MONARO
2) Ok, Lotus IS British, and not saying that it sucks, it's cool, but hey, Porsche's are more prestigious, and are faster, and (since they are German) are more reliable...and if you're gonna say that Porsche got a engine in the wrong place, need I remind you that Lotus has the steering wheel on the wrong side

Quote from squidhead :

2) Ok, Lotus IS British, and not saying that it sucks, it's cool, but hey, Porsche's are more prestigious, and are faster, and (since they are German) are more reliable...and if you're gonna say that Porsche got a engine in the wrong place, need I remind you that Lotus has the steering wheel on the wrong side

No, German import Porsches have the engine in the wrong place AND the steering wheel on the wrong side

Quote from MAGGOT :

According to wikipedia, he conceived the idea in 1954 :P

german wiki says he patented the idea in the 30s ... either way 50s or 30s the patents should have expired a long time ago ... no way that mazda has any exclusive rights for the wankel concept in 2006

Quote :

hehe Can any Dutch speakers here verify this?

it has a similar connotation in german with "wanken"

Quote from Shotglass :

it has a similar connotation in german with "wanken"

or "wankelmütig" : http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=en ... nkelm%FCtig&relink=on

but if you think about it or more specifically if youve ever seen how a wankel engine works the connotations of the name arent that far off

Nah, the wankel is a very solid design imho. It's got an oblong path, but it's very smooth and stable. Quite ingenious, really. I did a small project on it last year in which I learned basically everything I know (knew) about it. I've since forgotten 90% of that information, but either way it was really awe-inspiring for me. I love learning about these unique mechanical gizmos

thatts not what i meant ... its just that if you look at the rotor moving you kind of get the impression that the engine is drunk

Quote from duke_toaster :

Also, Porsche own 25% or so of VWAG.

Isn't it the other way around?

lol I love this thread.
It started with a single line post.

"can it be posibole to make a wankel engine to s3???"

Quote from Shotglass :

thatts not what i meant ... its just that if you look at the rotor moving you kind of get the impression that the engine is drunk

I guess Felix Wankel had a bit too much to drink the night he thought of it... Maybe he passed out and smacked his head on the toilet bowl too?

The rotary is pure simplistic genius. How to get rotary motion from rotary motion itself.

Quote from Blowtus :

I don't understand how you can talk about a difference in engine weight of 'only 200lbs'. That's really a fairly signifigant mass to have both sitting higher and further forward in the engine bay.

Well, a carbon fiber hood would take some weight off the front. (A PAINTED carbon fiber hood of course). And, you could put the battery in the back.

Quote from Primoz :

Isn't it the other way around?

nope porsche own 25 % VAG

and a large % of other shares are held by groups that are very pro porsche

@tinvek: Not "pro Porsche", rather "pro VW". Porsche bought the VAG stocks to defend VAG from being bought, as Porsche has quite some interest in further coorperation with VW in the future.

Vain

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Well, a carbon fiber hood would take some weight off the front. (A PAINTED carbon fiber hood of course). And, you could put the battery in the back.

I wonder if the OEM Mazda RX-7's hood weighed anywhere NEAR 200lbs. And the battery with it's associated connections added still don't quite add up to 200lbs (approximately 90kg). If you used carbon fiber for the entire front end (hood and fenders) along with a rear mounted battery system maybe you'll get closer to achieving the original weight. However, it's not a simple matter of weight by the numbers.

The fact is, your V-8 is significantly LONGER than the rotary, forcing it to be placed far more front than usual. This simply isn't just more mass at the front. It's the fact that the engine would actually act like as a lever and take weight OFF the rear. That is definitely no good handling wise. Coupled with the fact that all piston engines vibrate more than rotarys (given both are properly balanced), it simply doesn't help. All this neglacts the possibility that you actually cut the firewall and mount the engine practically within the cabin, something that neither terribly practical nor safe anyway.

rotary's vibrate pretty strongly at low rpm. Forget the reason - intake pulse not strong enough or some such? Dunno. When mine gets down below 1500rpm it lurches all over the joint.