After the first part I thought this must be some kind of rubbish document from some tree-hugger. Atfer the second part I asked myself: "Why am I watching this?" I definately wouldn't have watched this completely, if the thread started hadn't advertised so passionately.

Then, going on, the more I watched it, the more it pissed me off. It wasn't the animals or the way they were treated (even though I was also struggling, and feeling sick watching it), but the way the document was made. Half of it was good stuff and got me thinking these things more (that obviously was the meaning of the whole doc), but the other half that was presented in the way I didn't like, killed the credibility of the whole movie.

1. Pets.
I love pets. I'd never hurt a pet. In fact, I'd propably never hurt any animal (counting off hunting, fishing, and food). But pet breeders, what can I do? I will never buy a dog or cat from a breeder or pet store, but something I know in person. Homeless animals? What can I do about them? In my home country there isn't any dog catchers, because there isn't (that much) homeless animals to catch.

2. Food.
This one was the most irritating part. Maybe our cultures just differ so much that I don't understand, or the document is ridiculously over-dramatized. For example, at least in my home country a milking cow doesn't die in exhaustion at age of 4, but it's slaughtered for meat after 5 years, because the pruction of milk decreases due to age. If they weren't slaughtered, they would live at least 10 years producing milk. At least in my home country cattle is not transported in stacks, transporters are educated and need a license. At least in my home country there are strict laws for animal rights, and they ARE strictly observed. According to the document (which I don't think is 100% believable anyway) that's not the case in some of the other 'highly civilized' countries. The fish thing was weird too, here in Finland we have clean waters, toxic substance levels are low enough for the fish being healthy to eat.

IMO the best way to slaughter a cow or pig, is to cut the throat (when done properly!) and let the animal suffer those few seconds. Or would you pay double the prize (what would you painlessly kill a 600kg cow with at no extra costs?) for your steak if you knew that the animal didn't suffer when it was killed?

European union supports small farmers in different countries so they can provide quality victuals instead of importing all from big producers abroad. For animal rights thats good of course, but in person, as cruel it is, I don't care how my mincemeat is killed.

3. Entertainment
We don't have rodeos nor bullfights here, so what can I do about them? Definately not propably cheer when I see groups of men in stetsons or red and yellow clownsuits bullying and torturing bulls, from TV or Internet illepall. Traditions ftw..

Don't get me wrong, I am not a patriot of any kind, but I'd like to ask: Why is nothing bad from above happening in my country? Somebody already answered this above: Money. Finland's population is less than Miami's. So the purchasing power is small. That keeps the corporations small. And that keeps aiming for maximum profits at the cost of humanity, small.

In some point, in the middle of watching the doc, I thought that maybe the whole movie is ironically made in hope of profit, at the cost of people who think they want to do good but give their money for entertaining themselves by watching animals being killed. But after watching it completely, I realized, that the purpose of the movie was to make people think, using means like irritation like ads do, and to cause discussion (well, this was my longest post ever in lfsforum) and public visibility for itself and the topic it handles.

Conclusion: I was frustrated and felt I just wasted 2 hours, but once again, in the end this got me thinking things, even though from a different viewpoint I believe most of us will think after seeing this.

More humans have died from a rodeo then bulls, lol. The Jewish Torah has rules on treatment of animals. I think that the most cruel people are animal poachers in africa.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Tweaker can take his food chains with him... food chain doesn't mean that cooking pigs alive is right.

Surely, harboring animals and treating them bad is a terrible offense, I was quite sick after watching most of the food animals suffer. However, why I based my comment on the "food chain" is because us humans are intelligent creatures, and need to survive by any means necessary. The cycle in which we get our food is the same has it always has been, only now largely frowned upon --- but because we are clueless with what goes on, and why it happens. I am not saying that poor treatment of animals is ok, I am only pointing out that we need to survive, especially for how huge our population is. One quote from the film was that we eat as much chicken in one day as everyone did in the year of 1930. This is very relative to the size of population. And with farms and places that butcher animals by the thousands, it is the only way we can keep up and have our share of diet and foods that we were born to eat.

The treatment of most of these animals is indeed poor, but you again have to realize why they are doing it. Yes it does suck that they have to resort to these measures, but with the huge numbers of animals, there is a dominant chance of having disease and lesser "quality" sources of meat. Example, the pigs having appendiges removed so they cannot eat each other or bite other's. The same for chickens/hens. Most animals have to go through this in order to allow us to be healthy. It is more like a science or precaution than just people slaughtering animals with poor techniques. Think back then when there were animals being treated, there were many disease ridden foods, and what we have now is a whole lot healthier and safer to eat.... at the cost of an animal suffering unfortuneately. But the "suffering" is so dramatic in films like these, when they ignore even what some natives practice still to this day. Throat slitting/cutting, and abuse of real animals is their source of food. They are in ancient times, and we are more modern to support a much larger group... and we've adjusted in this respect. And if any disease or foul sources of food are found, we take it seriously... as it ruins our personal health, and puts as at a very high risk. But because of this, we are accelerating into becoming so healthy, population will grow even faster, and we will eventually "top off" our food supplies. A long ways away, but there will probably be new advances in science that give us a better source of food, while not having to kill living creatures.

This film is almost like a foreshadowing, or trying to make people become vegetarians or something. What... and plants are living organisms... they are harvested too. Just because it is a measely plant, they don't get cut and suffer too? :rolleyes: Yeah that is a silly comparison, but think about it.

After seeing this film, I do think twice about the food I eat... but I certaintly will not become a vegetarian or some anti-meat eater. Neccesary foods are crucial to anyone's diet, and they should have an adequate amount for each kind. And to put in perspective two choices of how you can have your meats or other foods prepared, what would you choose:

1) Animals slaughtered by hand or your ownself, and cooked/eaten afterwords?

OR

2) Animals slaughtered in a slaughterhouse where they are later cured/treated, cleaned, and properly handled for the sake of your own health?

Aside from how they begin that process, I'd rather pick #2... because we live in a world where people live based on resources and help from others. And the chances you have a unhealthy piece of food is very rare these days. An average joe couldn't do option #1 and would probably die trying to hold up his/her own farm for food. That is why we've grown to be in a society that has based their resources of food on a "citizen & butcher" relationship. And people all of a sudden act like this is shocking stuff, and "omg I am eating that meat probably". But the way I honestly see it... meat is meat, we are creatures that have an increasing desire/need for our sources of food, and how a living creature you will soon eat is treated is not a very direct argument for not eating the food you need. We are carnivores, defined as animals that tear the meat of living animals to shreds, live with it. And if you fail to see that, then what in the hell kind of creature are you? Sensitivity/Morals shouldn't mix with eating habits, they don't.

Just watching this documentary gives me the creaps.......
But also proves my opinion and way on how the earth is treated by humans..

Quote from frokki :

After the first part I thought this must be some kind of rubbish document from some tree-hugger. Atfer the second part I asked myself: "Why am I watching this?" I definately wouldn't have watched this completely, if the thread started hadn't advertised so passionately.

Then, going on, the more I watched it, the more it pissed me off. It wasn't the animals or the way they were treated (even though I was also struggling, and feeling sick watching it), but the way the document was made. Half of it was good stuff and got me thinking these things more (that obviously was the meaning of the whole doc), but the other half that was presented in the way I didn't like, killed the credibility of the whole movie.

Yes the document is defenately biased. But it tells and shows us what is going on too.

Quote from frokki :

1. Pets.
I love pets. I'd never hurt a pet. In fact, I'd propably never hurt any animal (counting off hunting, fishing, and food). But pet breeders, what can I do? I will never buy a dog or cat from a breeder or pet store, but something I know in person. Homeless animals? What can I do about them? In my home country there isn't any dog catchers, because there isn't (that much) homeless animals to catch.

Actually there are. But they aren't driving around with big trucks to collect dead dogs and such.

Quote from frokki :

2. Food.
This one was the most irritating part. Maybe our cultures just differ so much that I don't understand, or the document is ridiculously over-dramatized. For example, at least in my home country a milking cow doesn't die in exhaustion at age of 4, but it's slaughtered for meat after 5 years, because the pruction of milk decreases due to age. If they weren't slaughtered, they would live at least 10 years producing milk. At least in my home country cattle is not transported in stacks, transporters are educated and need a license. At least in my home country there are strict laws for animal rights, and they ARE strictly observed. According to the document (which I don't think is 100% believable anyway) that's not the case in some of the other 'highly civilized' countries. The fish thing was weird too, here in Finland we have clean waters, toxic substance levels are low enough for the fish being healthy to eat.

Not all food we eat in Finland is made in Finland. And there have been illegal animal transportations where the animals have basically died in hunger/cold durinf the loong distances. In Finland too.

Quote from frokki :

IMO the best way to slaughter a cow or pig, is to cut the throat (when done properly!) and let the animal suffer those few seconds. Or would you pay double the prize (what would you painlessly kill a 600kg cow with at no extra costs?) for your steak if you knew that the animal didn't suffer when it was killed?

European union supports small farmers in different countries so they can provide quality victuals instead of importing all from big producers abroad. For animal rights thats good of course, but in person, as cruel it is, I don't care how my mincemeat is killed.

And that's point.

Quote from frokki :

3. Entertainment
We don't have rodeos nor bullfights here, so what can I do about them? Definately not propably cheer when I see groups of men in stetsons or red and yellow clownsuits bullying and torturing bulls, from TV or Internet illepall. Traditions ftw..

Don't get me wrong, I am not a patriot of any kind, but I'd like to ask: Why is nothing bad from above happening in my country? Somebody already answered this above: Money. Finland's population is less than Miami's. So the purchasing power is small. That keeps the corporations small. And that keeps aiming for maximum profits at the cost of humanity, small.

Don't close your eyes just yet. Traditions like hunting and fishing are still quite popular in Finland. I am pretty sure that if the fish could scream as loud as pigs, fishing would be far less popular. Of course it is nothing if compared to completely stupid stuff like bull fights and rodeos. And Finland is not some kind of safe place where everything is totally safe and righful. The fact that Finland is doing well doesn't mean that we are doing everything ok, or that everything is ok. Even with "meat manufacturing".

Quote from frokki :

In some point, in the middle of watching the doc, I thought that maybe the whole movie is ironically made in hope of profit, at the cost of people who think they want to do good but give their money for entertaining themselves by watching animals being killed. But after watching it completely, I realized, that the purpose of the movie was to make people think, using means like irritation like ads do, and to cause discussion (well, this was my longest post ever in lfsforum) and public visibility for itself and the topic it handles.

Conclusion: I was frustrated and felt I just wasted 2 hours, but once again, in the end this got me thinking things, even though from a different viewpoint I believe most of us will think after seeing this.

Enjoy your dinner then

Quote from Tweaker :

Surely, harboring animals and treating them bad is a terrible offense, I was quite sick after watching most of the food animals suffer. However, why I based my comment on the "food chain" is because us humans are intelligent creatures, and need to survive by any means necessary.

That's weird because I thought we humans are just one species amont very manu on earth. But each to their own. There are people who think that the color of your skin makes you above or below them. But I guess it is just personal preference, each to their own. Not that I am comparing KKKs to meat eaters but I see some similarities with that "food chain" - way of thinking

Quote from Tweaker :

The cycle in which we get our food is the same has it always has been, only now largely frowned upon --- but because we are clueless with what goes on, and why it happens. I am not saying that poor treatment of animals is ok, I am only pointing out that we need to survive, especially for how huge our population is. One quote from the film was that we eat as much chicken in one day as everyone did in the year of 1930. This is very relative to the size of population. And with farms and places that butcher animals by the thousands, it is the only way we can keep up and have our share of diet and foods that we were born to eat.

After all it is very very important that we get our dolphin sandwiches and fried chicken meals twice a day.

Quote from Tweaker :

The treatment of most of these animals is indeed poor, but you again have to realize why they are doing it. Yes it does suck that they have to resort to these measures, but with the huge numbers of animals, there is a dominant chance of having disease and lesser "quality" sources of meat. Example, the pigs having appendiges removed so they cannot eat each other or bite other's. The same for chickens/hens. Most animals have to go through this in order to allow us to be healthy. It is more like a science or precaution than just people slaughtering animals with poor techniques. Think back then when there were animals being treated, there were many disease ridden foods, and what we have now is a whole lot healthier and safer to eat.... at the cost of an animal suffering unfortuneately. But the "suffering" is so dramatic in films like these, when they ignore even what some natives practice still to this day. Throat slitting/cutting, and abuse of real animals is their source of food. They are in ancient times, and we are more modern to support a much larger group... and we've adjusted in this respect. And if any disease or foul sources of food are found, we take it seriously... as it ruins our personal health, and puts as at a very high risk. But because of this, we are accelerating into becoming so healthy, population will grow even faster, and we will eventually "top off" our food supplies. A long ways away, but there will probably be new advances in science that give us a better source of food, while not having to kill living creatures.

It sounds very "humorous" in one way that an american tells me such things. "to make the food more safe for us". Aren't the american food industry one of the worst example of using all the means necessary to get the highest production numbers. That includes low quality, cruellest mass production methods and biggest pollutions. But this will be probably seen as a typical anti-american type of thing so I must say that countries like India, China and Mexico are doing even worse.

Quote from Tweaker :

This film is almost like a foreshadowing, or trying to make people become vegetarians or something. What... and plants are living organisms... they are harvested too. Just because it is a measely plant, they don't get cut and suffer too? :rolleyes: Yeah that is a silly comparison, but think about it.

It has been very clearly proved that plants don't have the organs required to sense pain, or to even sense their surroundings, with certain exceptions.

Quote from Tweaker :

After seeing this film, I do think twice about the food I eat... but I certaintly will not become a vegetarian or some anti-meat eater. Neccesary foods are crucial to anyone's diet, and they should have an adequate amount for each kind. And to put in perspective two choices of how you can have your meats or other foods prepared, what would you choose:

1) Animals slaughtered by hand or your ownself, and cooked/eaten afterwords?

OR

2) Animals slaughtered in a slaughterhouse where they are later cured/treated, cleaned, and properly handled for the sake of your own health?

1. option defenately. I would find it quite naive to believe that food industry really cares my health.

Quote from Tweaker :

Aside from how they begin that process, I'd rather pick #2... because we live in a world where people live based on resources and help from others. And the chances you have a unhealthy piece of food is very rare these days. An average joe couldn't do option #1 and would probably die trying to hold up his/her own farm for food. That is why we've grown to be in a society that has based their resources of food on a "citizen & butcher" relationship. And people all of a sudden act like this is shocking stuff, and "omg I am eating that meat probably". But the way I honestly see it... meat is meat, we are creatures that have an increasing desire/need for our sources of food, and how a living creature you will soon eat is treated is not a very direct argument for not eating the food you need. We are carnivores, defined as animals that tear the meat of living animals to shreds, live with it. And if you fail to see that, then what in the hell kind of creature are you? Sensitivity/Morals shouldn't mix with eating habits, they don't.

Carnivores or not human can eat all kind of food, that includes plants and meat. That's why we have the kind of teeth we have.

But using all means available the get the highest production numbers is just wrong when you are talking about living beings, as girly or naive it may sound. For me meat is not something that I need or I otherwise I die in hunger. For me it would be ok if meat would cost, let's say 10 times wht it costs now. But that would probably cut down the meat "consumption" 10x so the manufacturers probably wouldn't like it. And people want their dinner and meat innit so why bother?

Quote from Hyperactive :

Quote from frokki :

European union supports small farmers in different countries so they can provide quality victuals instead of importing all from big producers abroad. For animal rights thats good of course, but in person, as cruel it is, I don't care how my mincemeat is killed.

And that's point.

Yeah, I know. I'm not going to be hypocritical here, and maybe I'm an **** thinking like this but If I visualize myself there in the market, and had to choose between 3e french or spanish meat that I got no quarantines how the animals are treated, or 6e finnish meat, i'd pick the cheaper.

Theoretically, I really feel symphaty for animals rights, but in practice, even after watching the document, this topic is not that close to my heart, that would dedicate myself spreading propaganda, or trying to affect things.

Quote from Hyperactive :

And Finland is not some kind of safe place where everything is totally safe and righful. The fact that Finland is doing well doesn't mean that we are doing everything ok, or that everything is ok. Even with "meat manufacturing".

Youre right. That part of the text was really brought to a head. I expressed myself a bit poorly there, even though I prepared the fire extinguisher by saying that I'm not a patriot. The point was, that no matter what I do, I can't prevent bad things happening 10 000 km away from me.

Quote from frokki :

The point was, that no matter what I do, I can't prevent bad things happening 10 000 km away from me.

Thats not quite true, if all humans would think like that then some of the laws we have in place today would never have come about. So many people when they look at Africa and the suffering of people there feel helpless buy they have no need to, they can make a change, give say £5 a month to a charity which for example works in Africa and distributes water to villages, installs clean water filtration and so on..... if you really want to make a change then you can but simpy saying that you cannot effect bad things that happen so where else is a get out clause of not doing anything...

So if a company for example based in say Finland (only an example) had branches all over the world, in China, India, America where it was mistreating animals, people and so on..... by simply not buying their products you would be doing something. You may not think that if you, one person on this earth stops say buying fur has much effect and wont stop the suffering of animals else where then you are very wrong, it is why the fur indistry was hit so badly because people simply didnt want animals being killed for their skin so they stopped buying products which effected the company which basically stopped or reduced fur being wanted and sold.

No matter how small the change, it is still a change. If i was to suddenly decide to turn vegetarian only to stop animal suffering then I may think I am fighting a loosing battle but the fact i made that change no matter how small it will be doing some difference, i wont go throught kilograms of meat every month which indeed may save one animal over the course of a year. Plus you are forgetting that there are a number of people that do the same thing so i wouldnt be the only person deciding on this very day to go vegetarian, many others would have done also even though you may not know it but colectively you would be making a difference...

I guess it all comes down to how strong you believe in certain things and whether you want to make a change.

mad

Good points

But as I said, being selfish **** about animal rights in 10 000km away, this is the case for me

Quote from Madman_CZ :

I guess it all comes down to how strong you believe in certain things and whether you want to make a change.

People who did this kind of slaughter and treatment on the animals should have been barred in/shot on sight...
If theres 1 thing I care about in this world, its the treatment that the humans do to the nature and its creatures...illepall

Quote from frokki :

Good points

But as I said, being selfish **** about animal rights in 10 000km away, this is the case for me

I just wanted to say that I appreciate your honesty on this matter. It is far better to really say what you think and do instead of saying something and doing otherwise.

But there are still choises

Quote from Hyperactive :

1. option defenately. I would find it quite naive to believe that food industry really cares my health.

Carnivores or not human can eat all kind of food, that includes plants and meat. That's why we have the kind of teeth we have.

But using all means available the get the highest production numbers is just wrong when you are talking about living beings, as girly or naive it may sound. For me meat is not something that I need or I otherwise I die in hunger. For me it would be ok if meat would cost, let's say 10 times wht it costs now. But that would probably cut down the meat "consumption" 10x so the manufacturers probably wouldn't like it. And people want their dinner and meat innit so why bother?

O RLY? Why do we have the FDA and other organizations to ensure our food is healthy? Why would any industry be making food period, and not try and monitor their produce for the sake of our health? Again you think of Americans as being the unhealthy part.... but you are looking at it wrong. It isn't about being fat and unhealthy in that manner, it is HEALTH, not diet health. Sickness and health, to put it simply. Heck, at the moment there is a case of ecolii in California's Spinach.... it isn't so widely spread, only minor cases, but it is being investigated. Most mast produced food undergoes very strict supervision and a watchful eye. If nothing was done, then we'd be pretty sick and unhealthy... and this doesn't fall into the category of just America. Many countries have terrible food production, and cracking down on any violations is more prevalent these days. Just seems to me this film makes it seem like that these cases are so widespread, when it is not very common. And afaik, those are older accounts several years ago which happened in the mid-eastern states here.

To get meat, you kill an animal. If it has to suffer, well shit, that is a shame, but killing something usually results in suffering

Quote from Hyperactive :

That's weird because I thought we humans are just one species amont very manu on earth. But each to their own. There are people who think that the color of your skin makes you above or below them. But I guess it is just personal preference, each to their own. Not that I am comparing KKKs to meat eaters but I see some similarities with that "food chain" - way of thinking

Godwin's Law anyone?

Quote from Tweaker :

O RLY? Why do we have the FDA and other organizations to ensure our food is healthy? Why would any industry be making food period, and not try and monitor their produce for the sake of our health? Again you think of Americans as being the unhealthy part.... but you are looking at it wrong. It isn't about being fat and unhealthy in that manner, it is HEALTH, not diet health. Sickness and health, to put it simply. Heck, at the moment there is a case of ecolii in California's Spinach.... it isn't so widely spread, only minor cases, but it is being investigated. Most mast produced food undergoes very strict supervision and a watchful eye. If nothing was done, then we'd be pretty sick and unhealthy... and this doesn't fall into the category of just America. Many countries have terrible food production, and cracking down on any violations is more prevalent these days. Just seems to me this film makes it seem like that these cases are so widespread, when it is not very common. And afaik, those are older accounts several years ago which happened in the mid-eastern states here.

To get meat, you kill an animal. If it has to suffer, well shit, that is a shame, but killing something usually results in suffering

I said nothing about fat americans. It has something to do with it but it wasn't the point. The point was that imho it is very naive to trust some faceless corporation who "monitor their produce for the sake of our health?". The food companies always look for the cheapest way of doing things. If it includes cooking pigs alive or selling meat with cockruoaches in it - they WILL DO IT. The chances that they aren't doing it increase if it is illegal or bad for their business. And you of course missed that point of the films where they were talking about the food what is fed for the animals. Wasn't there some sort of scandal in US about feeding some stuff to the animals which later would cause cancer to humans who ate the meat? Or was it about selling "babies' milk" which would cause cancer to those who drank it? Or was it...

Enjoy your dinner, only in USA. Of course it happens all around the world but only in the USA the people who monitor corporations have stocks of the corporations they are supposed to monitor. [/antiamerica statement]

What about all the innocent animals that PETA kills?

Quote from Hyperactive :

I said nothing about fat americans. It has something to do with it but it wasn't the point. The point was that imho it is very naive to trust some faceless corporation who "monitor their produce for the sake of our health?". The food companies always look for the cheapest way of doing things. If it includes cooking pigs alive or selling meat with cockruoaches in it - they WILL DO IT. The chances that they aren't doing it increase if it is illegal or bad for their business. And you of course missed that point of the films where they were talking about the food what is fed for the animals. Wasn't there some sort of scandal in US about feeding some stuff to the animals which later would cause cancer to humans who ate the meat? Or was it about selling "babies' milk" which would cause cancer to those who drank it? Or was it...

Enjoy your dinner, only in USA. Of course it happens all around the world but only in the USA the people who monitor corporations have stocks of the corporations they are supposed to monitor. [/antiamerica statement]

You know it is funny that American's have to get into this. I just laugh at all the news others are sucked into and coming up with "10 reasons why I hate America" in their heads. Honestly, I think the bad depiction of these companies is always thought about as wanting the 'money' :rolleyes:. It is a company, what else is their purpose. Scandals, whatever you want to call it, that does not represent what most businesses are like in the US. Heck, what you hear from the news, it's just sad how wrong some of these reports are, as most of them are held out of the public eye, and dealt with. I once saw a near fatal car accident when I was in the city once... and was interviewed as being a bystander that was "nearly killed within inches of the crash", when I was standing almost a block away illepall. Or how about HP's old CEO a while back... they said he quit.... Actually he was fired because he was found to be involved with some pretty creepy sex acts, and love fondling kids while he was hung up with straps from the ceiling :zombie: (I know from inside information because he had to move out of the place he lived, which a relative of mine managed, he moved out from sheer embarassment). You gonna buy an HP product from them now? I have an HP printer, am I going to stop buying their great printers because of this? Not really. Same deal here with food.

Or what about your shoes. Isn't it a very high percentage that most shoe companies hire low-pay children and adults to make their products in foreign countries? Or what about the coffee you drink. You know that the coffee bean farmers and children in South America get paid an even lower wage for their hard work? All so you can sip your lovely shot of energy for the day, and do your own thing and make more money at your job. It is great isn't it?

But, what do they have in common? Well they all serve a purpose, and we are able to use these things for our everyday needs. Not knowing what goes on with the companies involved is all too common, and yes, part of it is for the money, but they are all mass produced products for a huge population an international deals. So cutting it low and saying America is the fantastic gold pot that is so easily your #1 choice, just makes me laugh because there are companies doing anything they can to be a huge profitable network. Food companies have an even harder situation to deal with because of the live animals. Organizations and Acitivists latch onto them to ensure they do what is right. But, how on earth would they be able to stop poor animal treatment, and still feed us? The rate that they have to keep producing and shipping out their produce is alarming, but understandable. In some of the documented cases, the treatment of those animals is necessary for proper herding and care so that they stay alive and healthy. FDA and other organizations are not the only ones that do inspections of these places, it is kept under control as much as possible I am sure. AFAIK, bills are soon to be passed that make several inspections mandatory, and that the places are put to code, aswell as how the employees work.

Who can you trust when all you have to choose from for a nutritious diet is the products that are on the store shelves?

Anyways... thanks for being so caring about our country, we know it sucks how some people act, but I don't think a film, eating habits, or anything relative to this topic shouldn't bring any particular person of a country into this... not everyone is a representative of these accounts. I for one don't like the treatment of the animals shown in the film, but it doesn't stop me from eating the food. I hunt birds sometimes... call me cruel if you want, but hunting will get me slapped too in this forum apparently, because I know someone will want to scream at me about it. Which is why I mention it, just to show how fouled up they are without knowing anything about the sport and even its own history, which I recommend you learn about if you don't already have a clue. Killing an animal without eating it, not good. Killing it for food, that's nothing new. Letting it suffer, uncalled for, but when you kill something you need to eat, there never is a quick and unpainful death. Injections, gas, whatever.... you can't eat that. So again, if we like meat, and want to eat it, we don't have much of a choice really... and it isn't just America :rolleyes:

Oh, enjoy your meal too I am through with this topic, anything just doesn't seem to get across for all of us. I'd rather just feel sympathetic for the animals more than anything else, I love animals.

Ok. I have put the 2 sentences below where I have mentioned America, with your post quoted, which I have answered in the following:
1)

Quote from Tweaker :

The treatment of most of these animals is indeed poor, but you again have to realize why they are doing it. Yes it does suck that they have to resort to these measures, but with the huge numbers of animals, there is a dominant chance of having disease and lesser "quality" sources of meat. Example, the pigs having appendiges removed so they cannot eat each other or bite other's. The same for chickens/hens. Most animals have to go through this in order to allow us to be healthy. It is more like a science or precaution than just people slaughtering animals with poor techniques. Think back then when there were animals being treated, there were many disease ridden foods, and what we have now is a whole lot healthier and safer to eat.... at the cost of an animal suffering unfortuneately. But the "suffering" is so dramatic in films like these, when they ignore even what some natives practice still to this day. Throat slitting/cutting, and abuse of real animals is their source of food. They are in ancient times, and we are more modern to support a much larger group... and we've adjusted in this respect. And if any disease or foul sources of food are found, we take it seriously... as it ruins our personal health, and puts as at a very high risk. But because of this, we are accelerating into becoming so healthy, population will grow even faster, and we will eventually "top off" our food supplies. A long ways away, but there will probably be new advances in science that give us a better source of food, while not having to kill living creatures.

And my anti-america answer:
It sounds very "humorous" in one way that an american tells me such things. "to make the food more safe for us". Aren't the american food industry one of the worst example of using all the means necessary to get the highest production numbers. That includes low quality, cruellest mass production methods and biggest pollutions. But this will be probably seen as a typical anti-american type of thing so I must say that countries like India, China and Mexico are doing even worse.

There, and then the 2nd one:
Enjoy your dinner, only in USA. Of course it happens all around the world but only in the USA the people who monitor corporations have stocks of the corporations they are supposed to monitor. [/antiamerica statement]

On those two occasions I have mentioned America. And if you read them you don't exactly find any anti-america statements there.

All in all, first you tell me that:
"The treatment of most of these animals is indeed poor, but you again have to realize why they are doing it. Yes it does suck that they have to resort to these measures, but with the huge numbers of animals, there is a dominant chance of having disease and lesser "quality" sources of meat. Example, the pigs having appendiges removed so they cannot eat each other or bite other's. The same for chickens/hens. Most animals have to go through this in order to allow us to be healthy."

So basically it is all about making the food safe for us? But then you tell me:
"Why would any industry be making food period, and not try and monitor their produce for the sake of our health?"

After which you tell this:
"You know it is funny that American's have to get into this. I just laugh at all the news others are sucked into and coming up with "10 reasons why I hate America" in their heads. Honestly, I think the bad depiction of these companies is always thought about as wanting the 'money' . It is a company, what else is their purpose."

What's your point? I just don't get your point. What it is? Is it green, pink or white with blue stripes on it?

I choose door #2!!!!!!!!

Crap I won a book of Trivia :rolleyes:

Quote from Tweaker :

I choose door #2!!!!!!!!

Crap I won a book of Trivia :rolleyes:

Take your time with the book

I became vegetarian ! Wohoo

Quote from Slidaaaa :

I became vegetarian ! Wohoo

And off I go to eat a nice juicy steak. Have fun not eating meat! More for me!