@ tristancliffe

Actually it was not referred to the oval at all. The same feelings you get on curcuit tracks for the vehicle also appears on the oval, presupposed you have some practice and a setup you are not only fast with but that gives you the correct feeling. The simulation part of lfs dont stop at kyoto and turn into some arcade rubbish I think it took ages for me to reach a proper level and also after some day without driving i feel like im starting from the beginning again. Kyoto is crap and BF1 is boring as hell, ok thats your opinion right now and perhaps this wont change after having some races with us. I think you should take part on a event from our side in the near future and give it a go. Or maybe we will just meet at a pwed server as you said.

"The skill lies in knowing when to lift, brake, modulate, accelerate"

- even flat out cornes do not exclude these skills with more then 1 or 2 cars around you

i still think a populated Fo8 server would be amazing, much as i like my odd oval race, i just find the BF1 boring, simply because its just simply easy to drive. FO8 is hard to drive (well, in comparison to bf1), it moves around a lot more and is a lot more vicious when you make a mistake also, just the fact that some of the huge drifts you can pull round the corners in the fo8 are absolutely spectacular.

KY1 isnt a good oval though. its not bad, but it isnt good. we need a daytona like track, with huge long banked corners

Quote from dave4002000 :

just trying to bring this thread out of the woods and, at least, somewhat back on topic.

It wsas worth a try!!!

I was hoping people were gonna post pictures of weird tracks they found, but it turned into another Oval v Everyone Else thread......illepall

we need to get this track into LFS. its the best track for Rfactor by far, and imagine rattling round that, car bottoming out and taking off constantly, its just the definition of fun. (its the old monza oval if anybody doesnt know)

but i think this is not another useless discussion anymore have you realized it, or am i just miss the point? Im sorry for bringing this offtopic Thor i really do, but see it this way, you marked it as not a serious thread but it went into a serious thread, without flamewars (anymore) since we are trying to have a "sensible discussion" if im allowed to use your words tristans.

I hope you will also see some replies related to the topic here and im sure they will come sooner or later.


@ Deko: :iagree:

Quote from tristancliffe :

Follow someone, and draft past them. Then let them pass you without costing you any time, then redraft them and repass. Net result: pb lap, but no net position gain. In short you aren't actually racing them, but driving with them. Only on the last turn do you want to not be first.

i cant believe im doing this (and harry almost made me not do this with his reply to your post) but i have to defend his views here

ovals are all about working together ... only problem is with the incomplete areo physics we have all that ridiculous passing each other all the time and bumpdrafting you see on oval servers (which was actually the starting point of this whole shebang)
you cant survive all by yourself on an oval you always need someone working with you to run from the pac and not get caught by some draft train comming in fast from behind

Quote from DeKo :

we need a daytona like track, with huge long banked corners

great instead of a dull oval wed get one thats even more dull

Quote from Shotglass :

great instead of a dull oval wed get one thats even more dull

hmm, matter of opinion. this oval is barely a decent track, there is about 0 banking (thats useful anyway), whereas daytona has those huge banked cornerrs that would make for some fun. Currently, there is only 1 fast line on the oval, the banking isnt big enough for there to be 2 equal lines around the track

Quote from DeKo :

hmm, matter of opinion. this oval is barely a decent track, there is about 0 banking (thats useful anyway), whereas daytona has those huge banked cornerrs that would make for some fun. Currently, there is only 1 fast line on the oval, the banking isnt big enough for there to be 2 equal lines around the track

But the point he has is that these huge ovals would just result in full throttle racing, and it would require no lifting at all. That is why most of us dissaprove of the Kyoto Oval, because it lacks player involvement to keep you awake and concentrated. Having a smaller oval that would be tighter, closer racing which required skill of braking and holding your line on a small corner, that would be where oval racing really shines. I don't like Nascar are oval racing much, but I always find the best races are when they race at the tight ovals which at least require lifting of the throttle or some heavy braking. Daytona is a draft hungry place, and that wouldn't be all that special to be honest.

Strange thing I think about sometimes though is WHY we can take some of the corners of Kyoto Oval so fast. The corners do seem slightly small, but I suppose it is because they aren't long banked turns and only "kinked" enough that you can enter tight to the apex and run wide on exit. Because the BF1 enters at over 200mph into those corners, and take Indianapolis oval for example... the IRL cars there lift going into those corners, and they can easily lose it there too. Only 90 degree corners. But BF1 is just full throttle grip, and I'd bet if we had a replica of Indy, we could take it full throttle. And the oval racing just doesn't seem right to me. Oval racing cars can easily lose the rear, but the BF1 has a surprising amount of grip in the corners, and it never really comes out from under you if you push it. I really do wish we had more driver involvement and interaction so that passing opportunities is not just by drafting, but also braking and either taking the outside or inside line. The road cars can do this on Kyoto Oval, you do have to take it easy there, however there really is never any braking. If we had a small oval where at least most of the cars you could use required braking, that would be really special I think. Using two pedals instead of one, my other foot is made for that .

How about as stated, we organise a little oval racing, get some oval racers and some non oval racers on on the same track, let you see why oval racers love it so much! what about it guys?

Quote from Thorvertonian :

How about as stated, we organise a little oval racing, get some oval racers and some non oval racers on on the same track, let you see why oval racers love it so much! what about it guys?

Just goto an oval server for that

But as suggested before, if a closed server is available to you guys, you can get some goo dracing in with some guys who know what they are doing, and avoid the crashes and pit falls of public oval servers....

People might actually see why some poeple love the oval so much

I lost my oval virginity the other day in the first 360 league race. I wouldn't say i'm hooked, but I did enjoy the event. I've even pulled out of OWRL for the time being to focus on it - but mostlly that's because my season in the OWRL was going really really very badly, but in the 360 league this rookie is doing rather well .

Quote from Becky Rose :

I lost my oval virginity the other day in the first 360 league race. I wouldn't say i'm hooked, but I did enjoy the event. I've even pulled out of OWRL for the time being to focus on it - but mostlly that's because my season in the OWRL was going really really very badly, but in the 360 league this rookie is doing rather well .

I've been tempted by oval recently. Still not enough to get out there and try it though. Just imagine it to be a little boring.

What is OWRL like? Competitive? How many events? I've been tempted by that too recently.

OWRL is every two weeks, the very fast drivers will do several full distance practice runs and some races go sub-wr. Thankfully there are 3-5 grids of races and new this season the grid tier system is much better and makes the racing more competetive (previously in OWRL your grid was defined by how many consecutive races you did, so I was getting thrashed in grid 1).

360 is actually quite enjoyable, but the races are very tiring because of their length, a real test of stamina and concentration. If you are thinking of trying oval it would be a good way to experience oval racing because ovals just are not meant to be run for 5 or 10 laps. Although i'm worried that some of the backrank drivers may be more disruptive than in circuit racing because of the nature of the tracks - round 2 is only a 25 second lap at high speed, add traffic and fatigue and we're set for an eventful race, and probably a few steward protests

I think it can go either way. Fatigue will definately kick in at some point but one of the problems of oval racing I've noticed is that one tends to lack concentration because there simply isn't much to concentrate on. On the OvalJunkies II event with the XRT I noticed that driving a car that is rather unstable actually helps concentration. It's tiresome allright but there is little chance of underestimating a situation because you're constantly aware of the danger. The shorttrack could go that way too. No chance to get bored so hopefully little chance to crash... knocks on wood...

Maybe I'll try it sometime this winter. For now I'll stick to the ATC 60 Lap GP events for the long races and I've just entered the OWRL too.

Quote from dave4002000 :

gee, that's a nice oval on top of that factory there. They should have a little autocross course set up in the ::ahem:: "infield"

just trying to bring this thread out of the woods and, at least, somewhat back on topic.

I have a whole bunch of pictures of that track including the tracksurface and the rather awkward entrance to the track but it's all copyrighted
Magazine (from 1984) was allready on the scanner.

Oh well...

Quote from Ramses :

I have a whole bunch of pictures of that track including the tracksurface and the rather awkward entrance to the track but it's all copyrighted
Magazine (from 1984) was allready on the scanner.

Surely small versions of a couple of pictures could be justified as fair use? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use for some discussion.

Quote from Shotglass :

...

ovals are all about working together ... only problem is with the incomplete areo physics we have all that ridiculous passing each other all the time and bumpdrafting you see on oval servers (which was actually the starting point of this whole shebang)
you cant survive all by yourself on an oval you always need someone working with you to run from the pac and not get caught by some draft train comming in fast from behind

Very well put.

And this kinda gets more than 10x when the track is flat out all the way because the tiniest amount of differences will have huge effect on the result. LFS aero is not good for oval racing, so I look at Nascar 2003, as always. Even the flatout tracks can be a great challenge because of the restrictor plates and the fact that if you lose the draft, you'll lose a lot of positions. It is just great when you are driving inches from the the next guy with your throttle floored and you know that if you hit him or lift the throttle he will run away. In normal road racing you can drive your laps within 0.4 seconds if you are good, but in oval racing you have to be able to drive withing 0.1 seconds on every lap knowing that running wide even once will cause you many positions.

But LFS doesn't do oval racing well enough so that I'd be interested about it. Just one flat out track (2 ) and that's it.

Another aspect that ruins it for me is the usual length of the races. In 8 laps it's a sprint and you HAVE to have a drafting partner to have any chance of winning or even having fun. If it was a longer race, say 50 laps minimum, then you stand a chance of finding another group which you can use to catch back up again, although with the LFS aero the constant passing/repassing means accidents are going to be very common.

When the aero is better and you can sit in a train and work together without having to move around all the time it will be a hell of a lot better.

Maybe the next meeting of the UKCT back straight wrecking crew should be at the oval?

Have to wait for Sam to set up LFSLapper so it can shout "YOU ARE A STUPID MORON" at us every two seconds, like on a real oval server.

Quote from Thorvertonian :

How about as stated, we organise a little oval racing, get some oval racers and some non oval racers on on the same track, let you see why oval racers love it so much! what about it guys?

just dont let rev run the whole thing or itll never live past the first event

I just drove a short oval race in Nascar 2003 and damn it felt nice

I was battling with some other ai drivers and I was having really close fights and then I got the thought that I must be quite high on the grid - bah! 33rd out of 43 But it just felt so great, all the time someone close to you. And i just loved it when at times the pitspotter told me that "3 cars wide, you're at the bottom"

Of course I spinned out and crashed but it was nice. And it was in Indianapolis. I need more practise...

Quote from Hyperactive :

I was battling with some other ai drivers...

Hah! Busted! I knew you weren't human, Hyperactive.

this full throttle thing is just not true... simply as it is, its not true